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Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US

TU Curmudgeon

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Okay at this point he's just trying to piss people off.
Not to mention the horrific timing, at a point where their neighbor Italy is being led by wingnuts eager to punch them in the face first chance they get.
 

ecofarm

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"You'd be speaking German, ungrateful Euros."



That's a good troll. Used it a few times. It ignores our ethical obligations, but still fun.
 

NeverTrump

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.

Hey, Remember when France helped us become a country??? And then they gave us the Statute of Liberty?
 

TheParser

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President Trump did not have to "suggest" it.

It is a fact: The Yanks saved England and France in both wars.


If not for the doughboys during World War I, the English and French would have been forced to reach a deal that would left the Kaiser still in charge of Germany.

If not for the GIs during World War II, England would have been in a world of hurt.


That French dude is really an ingrate.
 

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From What I understand, General Macron is building a series of bunkers and fortifications along his western front to defend against an impending US invasion that he plans to call the Macron Line.
 

PleasantValley

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.

This is the result when someone (Trump) tries to talk about the military and history without knowing about military history.
...and does not bother to ask his advisors about it either.
Chalk this one up to yet another goofy gaff.

...and yes, i do not understand why Trump would be opposed to western Europe creating their own united defense forces.
A good guess is Europe has never been united about anything.
 

TU Curmudgeon

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President Trump did not have to "suggest" it.

It is a fact: The Yanks saved England and France in both wars.

Only if you don't know that neither England nor France was in any more danger of falling than Germany was after 1915.

If not for the doughboys during World War I, the English and French would have been forced to reach a deal that would left the Kaiser still in charge of Germany.

IOW, if it wasn't for the US then the borders of Europe after WWI would have been the same as they were before WWI - which is what would have happened as the result of a negotiated peace between France, the UK, and Germany.

If not for the GIs during World War II, England would have been in a world of hurt.

  1. Unternehmen Seelöwe was "postponed indefinately" on 17 September 1940.
  2. Unternehmen Barbarossa commenced on 22 June 1941.
  3. Once Unternehmen Seelöwe was "postponed indefinately" and Unternehmen Barbarossa commenced the UK was in no further danger of invasion by the Axis.
  4. The US entered WWII (against Germany) on December 11, 1941.

The US entry into the European phase of WWI saved the UK - how?

You do know that October 16, 1941 was a key date in the history of WWI, don't you?

Do you know what happened on that date?

Josif Stalin decided NOT to leave Moscow, that's what happened.

Had Stalin left Moscow on that date, the odds on a complete Russian collapse would have approached a near certainty and a German victory over Russia would have been almost assured. (You might note that the US wasn't involved in WWII at that point.)

Once the Russian Bear turned to defend its ground, the eventual defeat of Germany was assured.

American trucks helped (so did American [and British] bombing that interfered with German logistics, but the key factor was the success of the Normandy landings which had the effect of ensuring that the Red Army wouldn't (eventually) roll over Germany and right up to the English Channel.

PS - Did you know that if it wasn't for French aid the "Patriots" would have lost the American Revolution?

PPS - Did you know that, if it wasn't for the French (Napoleon in specific) the Americans would have lost the War of 1812 (which the Americans started)?
 

TU Curmudgeon

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From What I understand, General Macron is building a series of bunkers and fortifications along his western front to defend against an impending US invasion that he plans to call the Macron Line.

Considering that your "understanding" is based on Mr. Trump claiming that M. Macron said something that he didn't say, your conclusion is as sound as your postulates will allow.

Did you know what M. Macron did say?

He said that France had to protect itself from electronic surveillance by China, Russia, and the US.

Guess what. Not only do the Russians and Chinese conduct electronic surveillance of France, but the US does too.
 

Atomic Kid

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From What I understand, General Macron is building a series of bunkers and fortifications along his western front to defend against an impending US invasion that he plans to call the Macron Line.

What a coincidence! That's almost the same thing we're doing to keep out a rag tag caravan filled with impoverished women and children at our southern border.
 

Deuce

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Without the French, Americans would still be speaking English with extra vowels
 

DaveFagan

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"You'd be speaking German, ungrateful Euros."



That's a good troll. Used it a few times. It ignores our ethical obligations, but still fun.

Nyet, they'd be speaking Russian. Russia had already defeated six of Germany's seven armies with domestic losses of over 20 million lives. Das Vedanya, Tovarich.
/
 

danarhea

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.

Yea, we did France a favor. France did us a favor too in the Revolutionary war, and they also gave us the Statue of Liberty as a gift. That's what friends do for each other. Too bad Trump loves crapping on his friends. We won't keep them much longer if he remains in office.
 

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.
He is correct.

You have it quite backwards. The Allies were closer to defeat in WWI than the Germans. We saved France and ultimately England
 

PIPEWRENCH

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Considering that your "understanding" is based on Mr. Trump claiming that M. Macron said something that he didn't say, your conclusion is as sound as your postulates will allow.

Did you know what M. Macron did say?

He said that France had to protect itself from electronic surveillance by China, Russia, and the US.

Guess what. Not only do the Russians and Chinese conduct electronic surveillance of France, but the US does too.

Good luck convincing the democrats of that. Oh and if you believe France doesn't get involved in the spy game as well I have lots of unicorns for sale cheap.
 

The Mark

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.

Regarding Trump not liking Europe talking about forming a combined military force, that's probably because if they do it'll mess up the deals we have providing weapons to some of them.

Remember he has outright stated he didn't want to do anything about Saudi Arabia because they buy our weapons.


What he really wanted in his earlier comments about them not paying enough was that he wanted them to buy more of our weapons, not form a new military force to defend themselves and mess up all the current deals and stuff.


This is a guess, of course, but it seems to fit.
 

Godric1970

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Even a dolt can be right sometimes

no offence it was Trump who started it 6 months ago when he called the EU America's foes .... he is acting like a brat because Macron reciprocated Trumps comments

and that assistance from the US during WW1 and 2 did not come for free we just paid off our WW1 debt to the USA we have decades more to pay for WW2 .... that is why backwards America became a world super power by the start of WW2
 

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.

Just more lashing out and skewed visions of history from the Child-in-Chief.
 

MSgt

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From Associated Press

Trump suggests France would have been defeated without US


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.

Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.

“Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia,” Trump tweeted. “But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The president has long complained that NATO countries don’t pay their fair share of the defense alliance’s expenses, leaving the U.S. to carry much of the burden. He has criticized Macron before and after attending a weekend ceremony in Paris to commemorate 100 years since the end of World War I.

COMMENT:-

Mr. Trump doesn't appear to realize that, in WWI, the US didn't arrive on the scene until BOTH sides were on the verge of collapse (with the Germans being closer to the edge of than the Allies were).

Mr. Trump also doesn't appear to realize that, in WWII, France WAS defeated and that if the US hadn't joined in two years after the war started, the most probable outcome would have been that the Red Army would have held the victory parade in Paris.

Actually I'm rather surprised that Mr. Trump isn't supporting the idea of the Europeans forming a "Continental Army" and thus relieving the US of the horrendous cost of defending Europe. Mind you, if the Europeans decide that they can do very nicely without the US military, how will Mr. Trump be able to complain that they "aren't paying their own share"?

When people call Mr. Trump "bone spurs" I sometimes think that they are approaching matters from the wrong end.

Wait, that's not accurate about WWI.

The point of Ludendorff's Spring Offensive (March - July 1918) was to launch a decisive last-ditch effort to finally win. He knew that Germany had to launch an offensive before the U.S. entered the war. The offensive was very successful as it drove the allies back in retreats all along the Western Front. The Germans actually moved so fast that they were unable to move supplies and reinforcements fast enough to maintain the speed. The advance was stopped at Chatteau-Theirry. But rather than get bogged down trying to penetrate through what they thought was a hastily organized French resistance force, the Germans simply turned towards Belleau Wood to continue on to Paris, just 50 miles away from the center of the city. However, they were blocked there too. German Intel couldn't figure out exactly why until two days into the fight. A dead U.S. Marine was found, which told Ludendorff that his push to Paris was too late. The U.S. was in the fight. It was the 3rd Division at Chatteau Theirry and the 2nd Division at Belleau Wood.

Everything hinged on whether or not the Americans could hold Belleau Wood or the Germans could break through. This was recognized by everybody at the time, because behind the American Expeditionary Force (AEF), the allies were recovering from their route and re-organizing for an eventual counter-offensive. Over the course of days, the Germans realized that they weren't going forward. They needed to dig in and wait for reinforcements. This is where basically three battalions of Marines attacked through the Wood six separate times against five German divisions. On the 26th of June, after some 9,000 Marines (and soldiers) had died, a SITREP back to the rear simply read, "Woods now U.S. Marine Corps entirely." It was after this that the allies managed to turn the tide and repel the Germans back.

So, it was the Allies that were on the verge of collapse. The U.S. didn't win World War I, but it damn sure prevented the allies from losing. The importance of Belleau Wood was so recognized that the French gave Belleau Wood the nickname "Bois de la Brigade de Marine" ("Wood of the Marine Brigade"). The tenacity and fighting spirit of the Marines was so recognized that even the Germans gave the Marines a nickname. It's understood by historians that this was probably "hellhound," but the legend turned it into "Teufelshunde" ("Devil Dogs").
 

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Nyet, they'd be speaking Russian. Russia had already defeated six of Germany's seven armies with domestic losses of over 20 million lives. Das Vedanya, Tovarich.
/

Please do not raise reality in an Internet "discussion".
 

Atomic Kid

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Wait, that's not accurate about WWI.

The point of Ludendorff's Spring Offensive (March - July 1918) was to launch a decisive last-ditch effort to finally win. He knew that Germany had to launch an offensive before the U.S. entered the war. The offensive was very successful as it drove the allies back in retreats all along the Western Front. The Germans actually moved so fast that they were unable to move supplies and reinforcements fast enough to maintain the speed. The advance was stopped at Chatteau-Theirry. But rather than get bogged down trying to penetrate through what they thought was a hastily organized French resistance force, the Germans simply turned towards Belleau Wood to continue on to Paris, just 50 miles away from the center of the city. However, they were blocked there too. German Intel couldn't figure out exactly why until two days into the fight. A dead U.S. Marine was found, which told Ludendorff that his push to Paris was too late. The U.S. was in the fight. It was the 3rd Division at Chatteau Theirry and the 2nd Division at Belleau Wood.

Everything hinged on whether or not the Americans could hold Belleau Wood or the Germans could break through. This was recognized by everybody at the time, because behind the American Expeditionary Force (AEF), the allies were recovering from their route and re-organizing for an eventual counter-offensive. Over the course of days, the Germans realized that they weren't going forward. They needed to dig in and wait for reinforcements. This is where basically three battalions of Marines attacked through the Wood six separate times against five German divisions. On the 26th of June, after some 9,000 Marines (and soldiers) had died, a SITREP back to the rear simply read, "Woods now U.S. Marine Corps entirely." It was after this that the allies managed to turn the tide and repel the Germans back.

So, it was the Allies that were on the verge of collapse. The U.S. didn't win World War I, but it damn sure prevented the allies from losing. The importance of Belleau Wood was so recognized that the French gave Belleau Wood the nickname "Bois de la Brigade de Marine" ("Wood of the Marine Brigade"). The tenacity and fighting spirit of the Marines was so recognized that even the Germans gave the Marines a nickname. It's understood by historians that this was probably "hellhound," but the legend turned it into "Teufelshunde" ("Devil Dogs").

Also after the French and Serbian troops offensive breakthrough in Balkans resulted in the capitulation of Bulgaria and the collapse of the Macedonian front. Leaving Vienna and Budapest wide open to the allied offensive. Ludendorff concluded that the strategic and operational position of Germany and Central Powers had now become decidedly untenable and it was then that he asked for an immediate peace settlement
 

TU Curmudgeon

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He is correct.

You have it quite backwards. The Allies were closer to defeat in WWI than the Germans. We saved France and ultimately England

Once Ludendorf's 1918 offensive (21 March – 18 July 1918) [119 days] failed, the result was foreordained. The United States contributed to that failure in two ways, first by allowing the British and French forces to be used to stop that offensive and second by participating in the counteroffensive that pushed the Germans back to their starting point (the first "American battle" of WWI was the Battle of Cantigny [May 28, 1918] which was 57.14% of the way through the period from 21 MAR 18 and 18 JUL 18.

You might want to note that approximately 4,000 American soldiers took part in the Battle of Cantigny, and that all of their heavy weapons support was provided by the French. Without French artillery, tank, machine gun, and air support, the outcome of America's first battle in WWI would have been significantly different (read as "a slaughter of American troops").

The Battle of Belleau Wood took place on 06 JUN 18, while first major and distinctly American offensive was the reduction of the Saint Mihiel salient during September 1918.

By September of 1918, the Germans were whipped (and knew it).
 

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Good luck convincing the democrats of that. Oh and if you believe France doesn't get involved in the spy game as well I have lots of unicorns for sale cheap.

In that case I suggest that you start looking for a different customer.
 
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