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Trump says not pressing U.S. government for coronavirus vaccine for political reasons

humbolt said:
You have no problem attributing motives to others not in evidence.

Vaccine developers don't have a political motive. They have an economic motive that could be disastrous for them should they fail in any respect. They also have an altruistic motive, as much as this may shock some.

The politics associated with this operates outside the field of research. I suggest you review exactly who has made this pandemic a political issue. At the outset of this pandemic, political leaders in areas most severely affected by this virus were quite complimentary of Trump's effort to assure they had what was necessary.
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"At the outset" people, naively, took Trump at his word. How stupid do you imagine they feel now? What reason is there for America to be enjoying 20% of the world's deaths and infection, with just 4% of the global population? I'll give you a clue; Trump, sitting on his arse, vacillating for months, downplaying and dismissing the pandemic-and look where you are now with impoverished, third-world India only just behind the world leader; the USA.
 
humbolt said:
It's not ready just yet, but the sooner it is, the better. At my age, yesterday would be good.
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Sooner is not good if it doesn't meet the time requirements to see if there are longterm side effects. That is why we do such testing.

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humbolt said:
Many of the developers already know their vaccines are effective. The chief questions are effective for how long, and what adverse reactions might be encountered.

The University of Pittsburgh has isolated the specific antibody that attacks this virus and prevents serious infection. Administration of that particular antibody may be as simple as inhaling it. The treatment picture is brightening as well.

Mt suggestion is to let research and development lead the way. The politics surrounding such efforts is meaningless, unless you view political concerns before all else.

It's just as easy to say the political left is interested in delaying a vaccine for political purposes as it is to say that Trump is interested in expediting a vaccine for political purposes. The chief difference is that if a safe vaccine is available in the next couple of months, lives will be saved.
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I am saying we need to make sure those tests are allowed to be done properly, with necessary time to find out if there are side effects that occur later from the vaccine and to see if it will last. Those things take time. That time should not be shorted for political purposes.

Vaccine Safety | Vaccines

Note how many times they state clinical trials for vaccines can take several years.

The Science Behind Vaccine Research and Testing



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snakestretcher said:
"At the outset" people, naively, took Trump at his word. How stupid do you imagine they feel now? What reason is there for America to be enjoying 20% of the world's deaths and infection, with just 4% of the global population? I'll give you a clue; Trump, sitting on his arse, vacillating for months, downplaying and dismissing the pandemic-and look where you are now with impoverished, third-world India only just behind the world leader; the USA.
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Well, shucks. No political leader has the ability to stop Covid. To suggest otherwise is abysmally stupid. All political leaders can do is mitigate it's effects until a vaccine is developed. In the US, the federal role is to support the various state leaders. There are also constitutional limits on what state leaders can do, as Governor Whitmer recently discovered. You should read up on such things. It is not possible to shut down an entire country indefinitely and survive regardless of who the political leader might be.
 
roguenuke said:
I am saying we need to make sure those tests are allowed to be done properly, with necessary time to find out if there are side effects that occur later from the vaccine and to see if it will last. Those things take time. That time should not be shorted for political purposes.

Vaccine Safety | Vaccines

Note how many times they state clinical trials for vaccines can take several years.

The Science Behind Vaccine Research and Testing



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
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Again, I reject the political argument, as it can apply equally to both sides of the issue. This is obvious.
 
humbolt said:
Well, shucks. No political leader has the ability to stop Covid. To suggest otherwise is abysmally stupid. All political leaders can do is mitigate it's effects until a vaccine is developed. In the US, the federal role is to support the various state leaders. There are also constitutional limits on what state leaders can do, as Governor Whitmer recently discovered. You should read up on such things. It is not possible to shut down an entire country indefinitely and survive regardless of who the political leader might be.
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No, but why is it that EVERY other advanced nation has managed to keep the virus under control, with subsequent dramatic drops in rates of infection and death? Britain, most of the EU and others shut down for months. What's America's problem? I'll tell you; libertarian idiots clinging to some absurd notion that 'rights' are more important than lives. The consequences you're seeing are clear evidence of that. When a global killer pandemic is raging is not the time to be bickering about 'rights'. That's pathetic. Do your whining about your constitution when it's over. Smfh.
 
humbolt said:
Again, I reject the political argument, as it can apply equally to both sides of the issue. This is obvious.
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No. You are focusing on the political argument, using it as a "well both sides..." bludgeon.

There is nothing political about wanting proper testing to be done before getting a vaccine out. There is a lot political about a President insisting a vaccine should be fast tracked to be out before the first week of November, which is when he faces reelection.

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tacomancer said:
And none of that suggested motives.
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Your number 1 in the preceding post certainly does. You assume Trump mismanaged this pandemic which, from a political perspective, makes absolutely no sense at all. The CDC quite properly provided the basis for the federal response. Even with a vaccine, this virus will persist. That's not my opinion. It's the opinion of epidemiologists. You can be dissatisfied with Trump if you like, and pissed off at the virus too, but at least try to be rational about it.
 
humbolt said:
Your number 1 in the preceding post certainly does. You assume Trump mismanaged this pandemic which, from a political perspective, makes absolutely no sense at all. The CDC quite properly provided the basis for the federal response. Even with a vaccine, this virus will persist. That's not my opinion. It's the opinion of epidemiologists. You can be dissatisfied with Trump if you like, and pissed off at the virus too, but at least try to be rational about it.
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Mismanaging is an action (or in Trump's case, a series of actions), not a motive.
 
snakestretcher said:
No, but why is it that EVERY other advanced nation has managed to keep the virus under control, with subsequent dramatic drops in rates of infection and death? Britain, most of the EU and others shut down for months. What's America's problem? I'll tell you; libertarian idiots clinging to some absurd notion that 'rights' are more important than lives. The consequences you're seeing are clear evidence of that. When a global killer pandemic is raging is not the time to be bickering about 'rights'. That's pathetic. Do your whining about your constitution when it's over. Smfh.
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Great rant. According to the BBC and Johns hopkins, cases are rising in Europe again.
 
snakestretcher said:
No, but why is it that EVERY other advanced nation has managed to keep the virus under control, with subsequent dramatic drops in rates of infection and death? Britain, most of the EU and others shut down for months. What's America's problem? I'll tell you; libertarian idiots clinging to some absurd notion that 'rights' are more important than lives. The consequences you're seeing are clear evidence of that. When a global killer pandemic is raging is not the time to be bickering about 'rights'. That's pathetic. Do your whining about your constitution when it's over. Smfh.
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And yet, the USA has a lower death rate than Britain bruv.
 
roguenuke said:
No. You are focusing on the political argument, using it as a "well both sides..." bludgeon.

There is nothing political about wanting proper testing to be done before getting a vaccine out. There is a lot political about a President insisting a vaccine should be fast tracked to be out before the first week of November, which is when he faces reelection.

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I intend for the illogical nature of the OP claim to be a bludgeon. There is every evidence that the claim in the OP is politically motivated, and it is logically consistent to point it out. If you don't like that, maybe you shouldn't endorse such claims.

I haven't heard or read of any immunologist of note declare the vaccine development schedule unsafe. That doesn't mean one or more haven't claimed such, but given the rabid nature of the left lately, I'm sure such a claim would be all over the media. It is not.

Trump has been pushing vaccine development from the outset, so his continued push is completely consistent. I seriously doubt any developer would assume the risks attendant on a premature release of a vaccine based on political pressure.
 
tacomancer said:
Mismanaging is an action (or in Trump's case, a series of actions), not a motive.
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Wrongo. You assume Trump mismanaged. In fact he so mismanaged things that Biden has offered as corrective measures those things Trump has already done. It's beyond laughable.
 
humbolt said:
I intend for the illogical nature of the OP claim to be a bludgeon. There is every evidence that the claim in the OP is politically motivated, and it is logically consistent to point it out. If you don't like that, maybe you shouldn't endorse such claims.

I haven't heard or read of any immunologist of note declare the vaccine development schedule unsafe. That doesn't mean one or more haven't claimed such, but given the rabid nature of the left lately, I'm sure such a claim would be all over the media. It is not.

Trump has been pushing vaccine development from the outset, so his continued push is completely consistent. I seriously doubt any developer would assume the risks attendant on a premature release of a vaccine based on political pressure.
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Let me provide some for you.

Why Rushing a COVID-19 Vaccine by November Could Be Dangerous

“"How long will it take for enough people to be exposed to the virus to see if you have a higher rate of infection among people who were in the placebo group?” said LaVeist, adding that this slower part of the research makes a Nov. 1 deadline for a vaccine unlikely."

Here’s how the U.S. could release a COVID-19 vaccine before the election—and why that scares some | Science | AAAS

Top officials at the FDA are threatening to resign over rushed vaccines.

Trump attacks FDA on vaccine testing as he pushes for Nov. 3 rollout - Business Insider

And when it would be available to the public is important.

COVID vaccine: Experts share timeline for when most Americans will get access | Fortune

And yes, his pushing the vaccine development too fast is completely consistent with his lack of knowledge and understanding of how and why certain processes work and cannot be expedited for his convenience. Pushing the vaccine benefits him, even if it doesnt work or harms people.

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snakestretcher said:
Spin, spin, spin 'bruv'. Explain, please why ALL our rates are rapidly dropping, yet yours are doing the opposite?
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I don't know that that's true.
Looks like the EU may be going for another round.
Looks to me like this virus is going to make the rounds and anyone that can be afflicted fatally is going to be.
That is, until a vaccine can be found and then we'll be talking about who the vaccine can benefit and who it can't.
 
humbolt said:
Wrongo. You assume Trump mismanaged. In fact he so mismanaged things that Biden has offered as corrective measures those things Trump has already done. It's beyond laughable.
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And he's read them using his very sincere voice.
 
ElChupacabra said:
I think everyone wants one fast. The question is whether it will be properly tested and competently distributed.
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It normally takes years for a vaccine to be developed and properly tested. I'd question any COVID 19 vaccine that was out by Nov.
 
humbolt said:
This seems to be an emergency, so it is perfectly reasonable that emergency proceedures would be employed. You are free to wait as long as you like.

You seem to have no problem with continuing deaths from the virus as long as it advances your preferred politics. It's not a flattering picture.
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And if a vaccine is released and approved before all clinical trial protocols have been satisfied, and is eventually proven ineffective or dangerous, what then? Back to square one.
 
Trump lies about everything.
 
humbolt said:
Wrongo. You assume Trump mismanaged. In fact he so mismanaged things that Biden has offered as corrective measures those things Trump has already done. It's beyond laughable.
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Ok, so he did the job badly then then if you want to quibble over the word mismanaged. :shrug:

However, you are still mistaking actions for motivation. Do I need to educate you on the difference?
 
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roguenuke said:
Let me provide some for you.

Why Rushing a COVID-19 Vaccine by November Could Be Dangerous

“"How long will it take for enough people to be exposed to the virus to see if you have a higher rate of infection among people who were in the placebo group?” said LaVeist, adding that this slower part of the research makes a Nov. 1 deadline for a vaccine unlikely."

Here’s how the U.S. could release a COVID-19 vaccine before the election—and why that scares some | Science | AAAS

Top officials at the FDA are threatening to resign over rushed vaccines.

Trump attacks FDA on vaccine testing as he pushes for Nov. 3 rollout - Business Insider

And when it would be available to the public is important.

COVID vaccine: Experts share timeline for when most Americans will get access | Fortune

And yes, his pushing the vaccine development too fast is completely consistent with his lack of knowledge and understanding of how and why certain processes work and cannot be expedited for his convenience. Pushing the vaccine benefits him, even if it doesnt work or harms people.

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I just knew you'd dig up some ****. They read like the AGW screeds that announce that Florida could be under water by tomorrow.

The development schedule for these vaccines is aided by earlier SARS vaccine development. It does not involve living or dead virus elements, and so eliminates the concerns generally associated with such vaccines. These vaccines are being tested globally in areas where there are active infections, so the database for evaluating safety and efficacy is huge.

It is completely consistent with Trump's nature to push for rapid, early development and release., just as it is completely consistent for you guys to continue spreading fear.
 
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