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Trump, Russia and lessons from the mob: Did ‘godfathers’ steer collusion probe?

I'm not arguing the scope the investigation.
I realize Mueller could do any damn thing he wants and ask for charges against anyone he wants with anything that he says he finds.
I'm saying that the people he's charged with lying all lied during the Russia investigation ... before and after he became involved.
IOW, if there was no investigation of a non-crime there would have been nobody to allegedly lie to his investigators.

It does seem like this investigation is defining a pool of suspects (the Trump campaign staff) and then looking for any and all crimes that they may have (ever?) committed rather than having evidence of specific crimes (election rigging) and then looking for suspects.
 
Do you know what the best strategy for avoiding being prosecuted for lying to the FBI is?

Yup. Watch for perjury traps that the best minds in law enforcement can set to get you to plea to anything because they can go on forever while you can't. That?
 
Do you know what the best strategy for avoiding being prosecuted for lying to the FBI is?

Not getting involved in politics and, baring that, refusing to testify and lawyering up.
 
Yup. Watch for perjury traps that the best minds in law enforcement can set to get you to plea to anything because they can go on forever while you can't. That?

I was going to propose that not lying to the FBI is the best strategy.
 
Not getting involved in politics and, baring that, refusing to testify and lawyering up.

If you're guilty of something shady or want to cover for a shady orange sleazebag, then possibly.
 
I was going to propose that not lying to the FBI is the best strategy.

Oh.
In that case I'll propose that if you're gonna prosecute such things it should be done in all instances.
 
Oh.
In that case I'll propose that if you're gonna prosecute such things it should be done in all instances.

Fine by me. Have at it.
 
It does seem like this investigation is defining a pool of suspects (the Trump campaign staff) and then looking for any and all crimes that they may have (ever?) committed rather than having evidence of specific crimes (election rigging) and then looking for suspects.

Nonsense. The investigation began with things like:
Russia hacked the DNC and meddled in the 2016 election.

However, team trump was acting suspicious, and turned around and gave investigators cause to investigate them in these ways:

- team trump helped in some way with the DNC email hack/dissemination
- team trump was hot and heavy about lifting Russian sanctions and fluffing Putin, and lying about that coordination for reasons unknown
- culminating in Trump firing Comey to interfere with the investigation

All three of which revolve around crimes they are no doubt looking into. All of those have evidence. None of those are smoking guns.
Has right wing media been telling you that the only justification for criminal investigation is finding a smoking gun? Good grief.

How can you not know this? Where are you getting information?
Conspiracy (helping to disseminating the hacked emails, even if it was simply with timing)
Conspiracy (some form of quid pro quo with Russia scratching mutual backs)
Obstruction (firing Comey to interfere with the investigation)

Furthermore, it's standard practice in such white collar investigations, where the smoking gun may be an off-the record face to face or phone conversation that is not available, to circle up all players from the bottom up, and find if any have been committing crimes that allow prosecutors to use plea deals to encourage their cooperation. You need witness cooperation because that is often the primary source of information as you go towards the top of such crime rings. Why do you think Trump avoids emails and still uses a personal phone?
 
I'm saying that the people he's charged with lying all lied during the Russia investigation ... before and after he became involved..

How would it be possible for them to lie to investigators before being investigated?
Wait, wait. this is great. So once they ARE being investigated, they start lying to cover it up...hmm, I wonder what that could mean....it MUST mean the Mueller investigation is not legitimate!

Come on, no one's buying that B.S.
 
What am I agreeing to? Is it a #butHillary deflection? If so, I need to get my drink ready.

No no. The principle. Do you agree that lying to Congress or the Feds should be prosecuted no matter who does it.
 
How would it be possible for them to lie to investigators before being investigated?
Wait, wait. this is great. So once they ARE being investigated, they start lying to cover it up...hmm, I wonder what that could mean....it MUST mean the Mueller investigation is not legitimate!

Come on, no one's buying that B.S.

The investigation didn't begin with Mueller.
I see you bailed yet again.
This time on #22.
You're doing that a lot.
 
No no. The principle. Do you agree that lying to Congress or the Feds should be prosecuted no matter who does it.

i don't understand how there could be an alternative position. just go ahead and spring whatever you're sitting on so that we can move on. my drink is ready anyway.
 
i don't understand how there could be an alternative position. just go ahead and spring whatever you're sitting on so that we can move on. my drink is ready anyway.
I agree. There shouldn't be an alternative position.
But in today's world of justice ... there is.
Clapper lied under oath. Comey lied under oath. Brennan lied under oath.
 
I agree. There shouldn't be an alternative position.
But in today's world of justice ... there is.
Clapper lied under oath. Comey lied under oath. Brennan lied under oath.

lying under oath is lying under oath no matter who you are.
 
But being prosecuted for it does matter who you are.

in what way? who should and who should not be prosecuted for lying under oath?
 
There was a time when even a hint of Russian interference in our political would have incensed conservatives.

There isn't anything they won't overlook now, in exchange for tax cuts and favorable regulations.

IF the Special Counsel had been appointed to investigate any foreign interference in the election, that would have been a good thing.

That is not at all what the mission was to be and not at all what the direction in the Appointment said.

You need to educate yourself on what prompted the Witch Hunt to start and what the actual direction was then and what that means to the conduct of the Witch Hunt now.

This link will be a good start for you and will explain to why the investigation is NOT about Russian interference. It is about nailing trump. Period.

NOT an investigation. A WITCH HUNT. They were told specifically what to look for and specifically what to ignore. This is a lynch mob, not an investigation.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html
 
no, i don't find the investigation disturbing. so far, it has caught numerous criminals. i understand that Trumpists are worried about their crooked king, though. if i liked the fool, i'd probably be worried, too.

The world weeps at your myopia.

Our criminal justice system was once intended to find a criminal that committed a specific crime AFTER it was determined that the specific crime had been committed.

In this case, the order to investigate appoints the target of the attack and directs the Special Counsel to attach a crime, any crime, to him.

This is a disgusting and perverted action. It is perfectly suited to today's Democrat Party and the tactics they seem to employ in all of their actions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html
 
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The world weeps at your myopia.

Our criminal justice system was once intended to find a criminal that committed a specific crime AFTER it was determined that the specific crime had been committed.

In this case, the order to investigate appoints the target of the attack and directs the Special Counsel to attach a crime, any crime, to him.

This is a disgusting and perverted action. It is perfectly suited to today's Democrat Party and the tactics they seem to employ in all of their actions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html

horse****, and with age, i'm becoming more farsighted (hyperopia) than nearsighted.

as for the rest,

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

read and use.
 
You posted the appointment of the Special Counsel.

Did you read it as well?

i did. the investigation is within its scope.
 
i did. the investigation is within its scope.

Do you feel the scope defined in the order is limited in any way that might restrict a full investigation of any foreign interference into the election?
 
Do you feel the scope defined in the order is limited in any way that might restrict a full investigation of any foreign interference into the election?

the scope said:
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

seems clear enough.
 
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