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Trump, Russia and lessons from the mob: Did ‘godfathers’ steer collusion probe?

bubbabgone

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Early in my reporting that unraveled the origins of the Trump-Russia collusion probe, tying it to Hillary Clinton’s campaign and possible Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) abuses, I started to see patterns just as in the old mob meetings: FBI or intelligence-connected figures kept showing up in Trump Town USA during the 2016 campaign with a common calling card.
...
  • At least six people with long-established ties to the FBI or to U.S. and Western intelligence made entrees to key figures in the Trump business organization or his presidential campaign between March and October 2016;
...
The recipients of these overtures are all household names, thanks to the infamy of the now very public probe — Paul Manafort, Donald Trump Jr., Michael Cohen, Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn, Sam Clovis and Roger Stone, to name a few.
Some of the instigators of the contacts have been acknowledged in public: Professor Stefan Halper, Russian businessman Hank Greenberg, former MI6 agent Christopher Steele and former FBI informer Felix Sater, who is “Individual 2” identified in the Cohen plea deal this week.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...s-from-the-mob-did-godfathers-steer-collusion

Solomon compares it to a mob operation.
 

Helix

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Trumpists are getting nervous, and rightly so.
 

code1211

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Trumpists are getting nervous, and rightly so.

Our legal system is supposed to be one that finds a crime and then investigates to find the criminal whodunnit.

In the case of this witch hunt, they determined who the criminal was and are now continuing the unending process of finding a crime with which he may be charged.

Rosenstein already said that there is no American implicated in any vote tampering.

The complete and utter abandonment of any relation to justice was lost from our legal system some time back.

That you cheer the process of eliminating more of your rights under law is an interesting departure from rationality.
 

Helix

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Our legal system is supposed to be one that finds a crime and then investigates to find the criminal whodunnit.

In the case of this witch hunt, they determined who the criminal was and are now continuing the unending process of finding a crime with which he may be charged.

Rosenstein already said that there is no American implicated in any vote tampering.

The complete and utter abandonment of any relation to justice was lost from our legal system some time back.

That you cheer the process of eliminating more of your rights under law is an interesting departure from rationality.

hello from real reality. there is no witch hunt. there is an investigation, and it isn't going swimmingly for Trump.
 

code1211

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hello from real reality. there is no witch hunt. there is an investigation, and it isn't going swimmingly for Trump.

What is the criminal code violation that is being investigated?
 

marke

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The FBI under Hoover framed 4 men for murder, sending 3 of them to death row for a crime committed by an FBI mob figure who was being used as an informant. The FBI knowingly and deliberately ruined 4 men's lives just to protect a murderer who was working for them. When Congress began investigating the FBI crime and cover-up Mueller had just been appointed FBI director by Bush and the Bush administration under advisement from Mueller refused to allow Congress to see the documentation which proved the FBI was guilty of the crime. The government ended the investigation by paying out more than $100 million to the victims and their survivors for the wrongdoing.

The FBI under Obama began another criminal enterprise, seeking to undermine and overthrow Trump as first a candidate and then elected president of the US. And democrats and democrat stooges in the AG have been covering up the crooked dealings of leftist liberals in the US government involved with that criminal enterprise ever since.
 

Mach

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So you’re telling me you have trouble believing Trump Campaign criminal conspiracy, despite overwhelming public evidence, public motive, and public evidence of intent, including all the indictments, pleas, and convictions to date.

But you grasp at a conspiracy theory that has no significant evidence becaus hey...it’s what you want as a partisan?

Tell me you’re kidding.

Trump has been a lying con artist since forever. He’s wanted to be Putin’s bested for decades. He’s wanted a real estate deal in Russia for decades.

Stone and Manafort have been political dirty tricksters since they started in business together out of college. Stone worked with Nixon ffs, he was bred on this winning at all costs..including law breaking, since forever.

Trump was warned off Flynn by Yates, Obama and Chris Christie...he still chose him.
I mean... I could go on...but I think that suffices to show how absurd it is.

It’s getting close to last grasping at straws isn’t it?. Trumps performance on the world stage....a little less than best in the world eh? Sticking his foot in his mouth ever other day? And Mueller looking the consummate pro, doing what he’s done his entire life...roll up organized crime rings. I’d be worried too if iI were silly enough to support Trump.
 

code1211

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As I said, this order is specific in WHO to investigate, but does NOT cite a particular crime.

Do you find this to be at all disturbing?

Do you wonder why the investigation scope is specifically limited to the "campaign of President Donald Trump"?

Do you wonder why the scope of the investigation does not include any and all "links and/or coordination" between the Russians and ANYONE in the United States?

Witch Hunt! This sham of justice is pretty much the dictionary definition of a Witch Hunt.
 

Captain Adverse

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hello from real reality. there is no witch hunt. there is an investigation, and it isn't going swimmingly for Trump.

Yes, IMO it was always a witch hunt, just as stated since the process was "name the man and find a charge."

That is the opposite of normal criminal procedure which is to investigate a crime and find the perpetrator.

People invented a crime (Russian collusion) to explain a lost election, then sought evidence to take down the person they had targeted.

During the course of this investigation they used any means necessary to charge anyone they could find with something, anything, to give credence to this investigation.

So we have most people being charged with "process crimes," i.e. lying to investigators and obstruction. Other's were charged with crimes completely unrelated to the original investigation (Manafort money laundering, Cohen business fraud) and then lying to investigators.

Now the emphasis seems to be tying Trump to emoluments, lying to investigators, campaign finance issues, and obstruction of justice allegations. I am waiting for the kitchen sink to be thrown in for good measure. :roll:

No, IMO this was a witch hunt and it remains so.
 
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What if...?

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What is the criminal code violation that is being investigated?

All that troll.propaganda cost money.

Those trolls.got paid.

If the Russians gave their product to trump, that is an illegal contribution.

If they coordinated, that's conspiracy.

And the right has no one to blame but themselves because the drug war gave us conspiracy laws.

The feds LOVE conspiracy laws.

I said long ago that the trumps seem to not understand that we live in a surveillance state now.

They think blocking a number means no one can see it, nobody is listening to phone calls, emails are actually private, etc.
 

code1211

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All that troll.propaganda cost money.

Those trolls.got paid.

If the Russians gave their product to trump, that is an illegal contribution.

If they coordinated, that's conspiracy.

And the right has no one to blame but themselves because the drug war gave us conspiracy laws.

The feds LOVE conspiracy laws.

I said long ago that the trumps seem to not understand that we live in a surveillance state now.

They think blocking a number means no one can see it, nobody is listening to phone calls, emails are actually private, etc.

IF is a big word and IF is all you got.

Investigations can occur when something looks a little fishy, but when the investigation is far more illegal than anything being investigated, the system is rigged.

The investigation was started with no other reason than to target Trump. There was no crime and there is not crime that has not been manufactured as the RESULT of the actions of the investigation.

This is a disgusting police state action that needs to be heavily examined by anyone with any integrity.

Sadly, that integrity qualification eliminates EVERYONE employed in our government.
 

What if...?

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IF is a big word and IF is all you got.

Investigations can occur when something looks a little fishy, but when the investigation is far more illegal than anything being investigated, the system is rigged.

The investigation was started with no other reason than to target Trump. There was no crime and there is not crime that has not been manufactured as the RESULT of the actions of the investigation.

This is a disgusting police state action that needs to be heavily examined by anyone with any integrity.

Sadly, that integrity qualification eliminates EVERYONE employed in our government.

There was a time when even a hint of Russian interference in our political would have incensed conservatives.

There isn't anything they won't overlook now, in exchange for tax cuts and favorable regulations.
 

Helix

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As I said, this order is specific in WHO to investigate, but does NOT cite a particular crime.

Do you find this to be at all disturbing?

Do you wonder why the investigation scope is specifically limited to the "campaign of President Donald Trump"?

Do you wonder why the scope of the investigation does not include any and all "links and/or coordination" between the Russians and ANYONE in the United States?

Witch Hunt! This sham of justice is pretty much the dictionary definition of a Witch Hunt.

no, i don't find the investigation disturbing. so far, it has caught numerous criminals. i understand that Trumpists are worried about their crooked king, though. if i liked the fool, i'd probably be worried, too.
 

Helix

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Yes, IMO it was always a witch hunt, just as stated since the process was "name the man and find a charge."

That is the opposite of normal criminal procedure which is to investigate a crime and find the perpetrator.

People invented a crime (Russian collusion) to explain a lost election, then sought evidence to take down the person they had targeted.

During the course of this investigation they used any means necessary to charge anyone they could find with something, anything, to give credence to this investigation.

So we have most people being charged with "process crimes," i.e. lying to investigators and obstruction. Other's were charged with crimes completely unrelated to the original investigation (Manafort money laundering, Cohen business fraud) and then lying to investigators.

Now the emphasis seems to be tying Trump to emoluments, lying to investigators, campaign finance issues, and obstruction of justice allegations. I am waiting for the kitchen sink to be thrown in for good measure. :roll:

No, IMO this was a witch hunt and it remains so.

great job parroting Trump's tweets. however, i would like to unsubscribe, thanks.
 

bubbabgone

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So you’re telling me you have trouble believing Trump Campaign criminal conspiracy, despite overwhelming public evidence, public motive, and public evidence of intent, including all the indictments, pleas, and convictions to date.

But you grasp at a conspiracy theory that has no significant evidence becaus hey...it’s what you want as a partisan?

Tell me you’re kidding.

Trump has been a lying con artist since forever. He’s wanted to be Putin’s bested for decades. He’s wanted a real estate deal in Russia for decades.

Stone and Manafort have been political dirty tricksters since they started in business together out of college. Stone worked with Nixon ffs, he was bred on this winning at all costs..including law breaking, since forever.

Trump was warned off Flynn by Yates, Obama and Chris Christie...he still chose him.
I mean... I could go on...but I think that suffices to show how absurd it is.

It’s getting close to last grasping at straws isn’t it?. Trumps performance on the world stage....a little less than best in the world eh? Sticking his foot in his mouth ever other day? And Mueller looking the consummate pro, doing what he’s done his entire life...roll up organized crime rings. I’d be worried too if iI were silly enough to support Trump.

You were supposed to respond to the details supporting the theory in the article ... not repeat your own theory.
Didn't you run away the last time you were challenged about what you repeated regarding this whole Russian kerfuffle? I think it was about the Cohen thing.
I think that was you. Maybe not.
 

bubbabgone

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no, i don't find the investigation disturbing. so far, it has caught numerous criminals. i understand that Trumpists are worried about their crooked king, though. if i liked the fool, i'd probably be worried, too.

You can actually say the investigation created numerous criminals. Know what I mean? Think about it.
 

bubbabgone

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There was a time when even a hint of Russian interference in our political would have incensed conservatives.

There isn't anything they won't overlook now, in exchange for tax cuts and favorable regulations.

That was a time when Liberals didn't mind the Soviet Union and Communism at all. That's the only thing that changed.
 

Helix

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You can actually say the investigation created numerous criminals. Know what I mean? Think about it.

And if I were to look at it that way, I would be incorrect.
 

Mach

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You were supposed to respond to the details supporting the theory in the article ... not repeat your own theory.
Didn't you run away the last time you were challenged about what you repeated regarding this whole Russian kerfuffle? I think it was about the Cohen thing.
I think that was you. Maybe not.
I accept that you can't refute what I wrote.

Apparently I read the article and you didn't. Sorry to burst your bubble. Next time you want want to make a thread about a partisan opinion piece that is absurd and juvenile, maybe don't.
And if people DO take the time to read it and respond, don't tell them they aren't' doing that, it makes you look sillier than you already look, in being unable to refute my post.

Hint: If you're gonna link-bomb, quote 2-3 of the most critical claims in the article, taking them as your own, or as points of discussion. Linking the entire opinion piece just makes it look like you're pushing right wing propaganda, and you're unable to understand it and defend it because...well, that's how Trump types roll, they don't know, so they can't defend.
 

bubbabgone

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And if I were to look at it that way, I would be incorrect.

There's the Manafort and Cohen crimes uncovered during the investigation and had nothing to do with Trump.
Then there are the crimes that occurred because of the investigation ... they weren't uncovered by the investigation.
 

bubbabgone

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I accept that you can't refute what I wrote.

Apparently I read the article and you didn't. Sorry to burst your bubble. Next time you want want to make a thread about a partisan opinion piece that is absurd and juvenile, maybe don't.
And if people DO take the time to read it and respond, don't tell them they aren't' doing that, it makes you look sillier than you already look, in being unable to refute my post.

Hint: If you're gonna link-bomb, quote 2-3 of the most critical claims in the article, taking them as your own, or as points of discussion. Linking the entire opinion piece just makes it look like you're pushing right wing propaganda, and you're unable to understand it and defend it because...well, that's how Trump types roll, they don't know, so they can't defend.

I did that the other day and you promptly bailed.
Remember?


The only thing I saw was that it wasn't Trump who discussed that penthouse offer and it's not clear if it would have been illegal anyway.

So you admit you have blinders on. OK.

I got that from the Washington Post.
Got tunnel vision do ya?


What details did Solomon list that weren't true?
What he did was call your attention to them in one article and suggest an undeniable relation.
The facts had all been in the news and have been available for all to see.
Of course you (the collective "you") can't simply relegate yourself to Rachel Maddow and consider yourself (the collective "yourself") informed.
 

Helix

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There's the Manafort and Cohen crimes uncovered during the investigation and had nothing to do with Trump.
Then there are the crimes that occurred because of the investigation ... they weren't uncovered by the investigation.

And you are aware of the scope of the investigation, yes?
 

bubbabgone

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And you are aware of the scope of the investigation, yes?

I'm not arguing the scope the investigation.
I realize Mueller could do any damn thing he wants and ask for charges against anyone he wants with anything that he says he finds.
I'm saying that the people he's charged with lying all lied during the Russia investigation ... before and after he became involved.
IOW, if there was no investigation of a non-crime there would have been nobody to allegedly lie to his investigators.
 

Helix

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I'm not arguing the scope the investigation.
I realize Mueller could do any damn thing he wants and ask for charges against anyone he wants with anything that he says he finds.
I'm saying that the people he's charged with lying all lied during the Russia investigation ... before and after he became involved.
IOW, if there was no investigation of a non-crime there would have been nobody to allegedly lie to his investigators.

Do you know what the best strategy for avoiding being prosecuted for lying to the FBI is?
 
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