Trump Pardons Michael Flynn, Who Pleaded Guilty To Lying About Russia Contact

[Tangmo]

You aren't aware of the origin of the term 'useful idiots', are you?

You also seem unaware of the history of the previous century.

Shouldn't you be debating sports perhaps? Or beer brands? Why did you choose to debate politics? Just to share your feelings?

With all your questions you might consider going on Jeopardy. I'll write a recommendation if you'd like.

Your only problem of course would be matching answers with your off the wall questions. That could get messy.

Another problem seems to be your accepting it when you're overmatched. So maybe do some pantomime posting instead. Via video of course.

After all, when you said the left are "useful idiots" I merely pointed out the Right are "useless idiots" when it comes to democracy, rule of law -- the Constitution. I said I don't recognize -- as in accept or acknowledge -- your false claim, not that I did not know it, what it is and what it means.

So you have useful idiots, I have useless idiots and then there are just idiots.

 

[Tangmo]

Then why not post a link to your claim. I think you might be lying, a tendency all leftists share.

I have read numerous posts here and elsewhere that over many years advocate or like machine guns used at the southern border. Trump was told by generals and in no uncertain terms soldiers would not fire on unarmed migrants who happen to be near a rock.

Trump had to say to his base he can't use machine guns at the southern border because the Pentagon absolutely would consider that to be an order that is both illegal and immoral.


PRESIDENT TRUMP MAY 9, 2019
The President’s ‘Jokes’ About Shooting Migrants Are No Laughing Matter
By Eric Levitz@EricLevitz

Steven Brant (code name “Viper”) was out on patrol with that same militia, the “United Constitutional Patriots,” when they witnessed another, smaller group of migrants crossing into U.S. territory. In a police report obtained by investigative reporter Ken Klippenstein, Brant described what happened next: Brant told police that another member, identified as Armando Delgado Gonzalez, then handed him a handgun and ran to his vehicle and grabbed an AR-15. Brant said he gave Gonzalez back his gun and told him to put the weapons away since they were only to observe and report activity. Gonzalez (allegedly) begged to differ. “Why are we just apprehending them and not lining them up and shooting them,” he asked Brant, according to the police report. “We have to go back to Hitler days and put them all in a gas chamber.

The president received a similar suggestion at a rally in Panama City, Florida, Wednesday night. Donald Trump reminded his audience, “We don’t let them and we can’t let them use weapons. We can’t. Other countries do. We can’t. I would never do that. But how do we stop these people?” “Shoot them!” one rallygoer shouted in reply. The crowd exploded in laughter. The president grinned and shook his head. “Only in the panhandle you can get away with that statement, folks,” Trump said to applause.

The President’s ‘Jokes’ About Shooting Migrants Are No Laughing Matter

Trump describes migrants as invaders, and suggests that shooting them would be “very effective.” But migrants have no power, so the GOP laughs it off.

nymag.com

Trumpolini.

 

[Atomic Kid]

That would be Comey.

Yes, and so if it was Comey then that would seem to clearly indicate that he had deep concerns about the subject matter of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak. Otherwise why else would he have sent those agents to the White House to interview him?

When it comes to the Flynn situation, too many people are stuck on stupid. I guess it’s just a product of partisanship.

Flynn was targeted for doing nothing wrong except agreeing to be part of the Trump administration. Even the FBI investigators who questioned Flynn said that they didn’t believe that he lied or tried to deceive them. He was a victim of corruption.

I can guarantee that Biden’s designated national security advisor is doing the exact same thing. He won’t be railroaded.

Speaking of stuck on stupid. See my post #477 in this thread. There is not a single FBI agent who thinks Flynn didn't lie to those agents that interviewed him.

Trump Pardons Michael Flynn, Who Pleaded Guilty To Lying About Russia Contact

It’s not the same as being convicted by a jury. If Flynn is so innocent and misunderstood, then he should pull a George Wilson and not accept the pardon. You don't pardon innocent people.

debatepolitics.com

 

[dixon01767]

You have been miseld by Barr and his lackeys.

What Barr did was to pull out selectively an internal FBI memo from the early stages of the investigation.....

Nope. It was after the FBI agents had already investigated Flynn and came to the conclusion that the investigation should be closed.

 

[Jezcoe]

Nope. It was after the FBI agents had already investigated Flynn and came to the conclusion that the investigation should be closed.

Then new information came to light.

So they didn't.

Happens all the time.

 

[Atomic Kid]

We don't yet know who the 'useful idiots' are but they've always been identified as leftists.

I'm surprised Page is suing for just $75 million. Flynn will likely sue for much more. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/527841-carter-page-sues-over-surveillance-related-to-russia-probe

Page's lawsuit was tossed in August. I'm sure any such suit by Flynn will meet a similar fate. Accepting the pardon would be essentially amount to pleading guilty for a third time.

 

[dixon01767]

I'm afraid you don't know denial from de Nile.

To refresh your memory I posted that you guys have made thousands of posts over the past 4 years denying Flynn pleaded guilty to lying and that he either did not lie .

Ive only argued that he didn't lie. First because a claim that he never discussed sanctions is technically correct. Expressing hope that Russia not over react to the sanctions isn't a discussion of the sanctions. Flynn never once even uttered the word sanctions, and the ambassador made only one reference in passing in the entire conversation. And secondly, because he didn't claim he didn't discuss sanctions, he said he couldn't remember and suggested to the FBI that they read their transcript of the conversation instead to see if he had.

 

[dixon01767]

Page's lawsuit was tossed in August. I'm sure any such suit by Flynn will meet a similar fate. Accepting the pardon would be essentially amount to pleading guilty for a third time.

Flynn could be guilty of every charge and it doesn't have any bearing upon his lawsuit other than possibly the amount of damages. A later crime doesn't legitimize an earlier investigation and fisa warrant that was illegitimate.

 

[Tangmo]

Ive only argued that he didn't lie. First because a claim that he never discussed sanctions is technically correct. Expressing hope that Russia not over react to the sanctions isn't a discussion of the sanctions. Flynn never once even uttered the word sanctions, and the ambassador made only one reference in passing in the entire conversation. And secondly, because he didn't claim he didn't discuss sanctions, he said he couldn't remember and suggested to the FBI that they read their transcript of the conversation instead to see if he had.

No matter how many times and ways you slice it in thousands of posts over four years it's still baloney borscht.

 

[pamak]

Nope. It was after the FBI agents had already investigated Flynn and came to the conclusion that the investigation should be closed.

You are uninformed about the case you want to discuss

They started the investigation during the summer of 2016 in relation to the Russian collusion but in the middle of January of 2017, they hear vice president elect Pence making a public statement to the public that Flynn told him had not discussed the US sanctions with the Russian ambassador. That was a NEW piece of evidence which had to be investigated becasue the FBI had monitored the Russian ambassador's conversations and KNEW that Flynn HAD discussed the US sanctions with him.

From the Mueller report, page 241-242

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

Flynn repeated that claim to Vice President-Elect Michael Pence and to incoming press secretary Sean Spicer.132 In subsequent media interviews in mid-January, Pence, Priebus, and Spicer denied that Flynn and Kislyak had discussed sanctions, basing those denials on their conversations with Flynn. 133
...

The public statements of incoming Administration officials denying that Flynn and Kislyak had discussed sanctions alarmed senior DOJ officials, who were aware that the statements were not true.134 Those officials were concerned that Flynn had lied to his colleagues—who in turn had unwittingly misled the American public—creating a compromise situation for Flynn because the Department of Justice assessed that the Russian government could prove Flynn lied.

133 Face the Nation Interview with Vice President-Elect Pence, CBS (Jan. 15, 2017)

It would have been dereliction of duty for any ccounter-intelligence agency to ignore the fact that the son to be senior National Security adviser was lying to his soon to be Vice President about the content of a conversation he held with an official of a foeign adversary.

 

[sanman]

What a weasel-y title from OP.

Flynn's "Russia contact" was a conversation recorded by normal wiretapping protocol -- and Flynn as NSA and former head of DIA would have known his call was recorded.

 

[Plasmaball]

I have also not been a CIA asset.
Not sure how that is grounds for an investigation.

Thats why you post on a message board and don't work for the fbi.

 

[Plasmaball]

Nor is it illegal or immoral to open an investigation on someone who has in the past had repeated contact with Russian Intelligence after working for a campaign that was up to it's eyeballs in Russian intelligence and was traveling to Moscow a lot.

I love how people try to take the initiation of the FISA warrant and conflate it with what was learned aa few years later. But because how linear time works, they would not have known that Page was simply a useful idiot until after the investigation was over.

Thats because they are idiots and dishonest actors

 

[Plasmaball]

Then new information came to light.

So they didn't.

Happens all the time.

They arent even including flynns son and that issue in his plea deal

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

Page's lawsuit was tossed in August. I'm sure any such suit by Flynn will meet a similar fate. Accepting the pardon would be essentially amount to pleading guilty for a third time.

In August? No, this was just a week or so ago https://thehill.com/homenews/news/527841-carter-page-sues-over-surveillance-related-to-russia-probe

 

[Athanasius68]

Yes, and so if it was Comey then that would seem to clearly indicate that he had deep concerns about the subject matter of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak. Otherwise why else would he have sent those agents to the White House to interview him?

We already know that Comey told Obama he saw no problem with the conversation. But then again, we know he lied to Trump so maybe he lied to Obama as well.
But-- we also know he decided to take advantage of the first couple days of the administration to work around the normal procedures for interviewing somebody in the White House.
So on balance most likely there was no merit in the interview.
As Mr. Barr determined.

 

[Atomic Kid]

In August? No, this was just a week or so ago https://thehill.com/homenews/news/527841-carter-page-sues-over-surveillance-related-to-russia-probe

Oh, another one? I'm sure just like the previous 2 suits he filed it will probably take all of 5 minutes for a judge to dismiss this one as well. The only thing Carter Page suffers from is a lack of brain cells.

 

[Atomic Kid]

No, 'we' don't already know that. You don't know that. That's not what Comey said and you know it because we've been down this road before already a couple of times. And it's not Comey's fault that Trump put in a place an incompetent White House staff. Obama warned Trump about hiring Flynn. He should've listened.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Flynn could be guilty of every charge and it doesn't have any bearing upon his lawsuit other than possibly the amount of damages. A later crime doesn't legitimize an earlier investigation and fisa warrant that was illegitimate.

Investigations by the DOJ and Senate Intelligence Committee have held that there was sufficient predication for opening an investigation into the Trump Campaign communications with Russians. Including the original FISA warrant issued on Carter Page. Carter Page's lawsuit isn't going anywhere but into a trash basket.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Investigations by the DOJ and Senate Intelligence Committee have held that there was sufficient predication for opening an investigation into the Trump Campaign communications with Russians. Including the original FISA warrant issued on Carter Page. Carter Page's lawsuit isn't going anywhere but into a trash basket.

Well, that's a rubbish response. The FBI withheld the material fact that Page was a CIA asset. They used a Yahoo news story as corroboration when it was in fact, Steele leaking to them to provide fake predicate. Lastly you have Clinesmith being caught realizing that he cannot reveal to the FISC that Page was an asset and not a target of the CIA or the entire scheme falls apart. So he altered documents.

Please be very specific in which fact you wish to discuss. As they are all facts.

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

Yes, and so if it was Comey then that would seem to clearly indicate that he had deep concerns about the subject matter of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak. Otherwise why else would he have sent those agents to the White House to interview him?

Speaking of stuck on stupid. See my post #477 in this thread. There is not a single FBI agent who thinks Flynn didn't lie to those agents that interviewed him.

Trump Pardons Michael Flynn, Who Pleaded Guilty To Lying About Russia Contact

It’s not the same as being convicted by a jury. If Flynn is so innocent and misunderstood, then he should pull a George Wilson and not accept the pardon. You don't pardon innocent people.

debatepolitics.com

Note the date.

"For any American who wants an answer sooner, there are just five words, among the thousands of suggestive texts Page and Strzok exchanged, that you should read.

That passage was transmitted on May 19, 2017. “There’s no big there there,” Strzok texted".

Opinion: One FBI text message in Russia probe that should alarm every American

By John SolomonOpinion ContributorLisa Page and Peter Strzok, the reported FBI lovebirds, are the poster children for the next “Don’t Text and Investigate” public service ads airing soon at an FBI …

thehill.com

 

[sanman]

 

[Jezcoe]

No, 'we' don't already know that. You don't know that. That's not what Comey said and you know it because we've been down this road before already a couple of times. And it's not Comey's fault that Trump put in a place an incompetent White House staff. Obama warned Trump about hiring Flynn. He should've listened.

Yep. Seems like Obama was trying to do Trump a solid. Imagine how much trouble could have been avoided if the President listened to his advice.

 

[Jezcoe]

Note the date.

"For any American who wants an answer sooner, there are just five words, among the thousands of suggestive texts Page and Strzok exchanged, that you should read.

That passage was transmitted on May 19, 2017. “There’s no big there there,” Strzok texted".

Opinion: One FBI text message in Russia probe that should alarm every American

By John SolomonOpinion ContributorLisa Page and Peter Strzok, the reported FBI lovebirds, are the poster children for the next “Don’t Text and Investigate” public service ads airing soon at an FBI …

thehill.com

Why should anyone listed to John Solomon?

 

[Athanasius68]

No, 'we' don't already know that. You don't know that. That's not what Comey said and you know it because we've been down this road before already a couple of times. And it's not Comey's fault that Trump put in a place an incompetent White House staff. Obama warned Trump about hiring Flynn. He should've listened.

We do know this with respect to Obama-- from Ms. Rice and the notes from the other FBI agent.
Unless those two folks were lying.

We do know that Comey said Trump not under investigation.
But we know Trump and Flynn were questioned under the guise of an intelligence briefing.

Obama warned Trump about Flynn because Obama knew that Flynn had been under investigation. Obama also knew he couldn't tell Trump because then Trump and Flynn would find out they, and the campaign in general, had been under investigation.