• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump Now Leads Polls At 41%

You don't think that all the lobbyists for those 300 million all feel like they are looking out for the interests of people they are representing?

Lobbyists aren't looking out for 300 million people. They don't even make deals looking out for anywhere near that number of people. The very definition of lobbying is to influence politicians in favor of.... and this might come as a shocker.... whomever hires them. It is usually a small number of people. If you don't believe it, find the biggest lobbying firms out there and tell me who pays them. You'll soon find that at most, lobbyists represent relatively small special interests groups or a single large client. That said, unless 300 million Americans hired them (and it would be news to me) then you'd have some sort of point. Their lobbying is just that, honey for worker bees, but not a guarantee nor even.

Unless of course you're arguing that being president is somewhat like being a lobbyist which is just well, bafflingly absurd. Hell, I hope you're suggesting that Trump should become a lobbyist. That's a far better position for him. After all, he's used to looking out for small numbers of people. It's definitely far more suitable than being president.

In the case that you're not, no, the fundamentals are not the same for being president as they are for being a lobbyist. If you're going to come out with such ridiculous examples to try and make your arguments, please stop and think before you post them. I have no time for silly pro-Trump sophist bull.
 
Last edited:
Lobbyists aren't looking out for 300 million people. They don't even make deals looking out for anywhere near that number of people. The very definition of lobbying is to influence politicians in favor of.... and this might come as a shocker.... whomever hires them. It is usually a small number of people. If you don't believe it, find the biggest lobbying firms out there and tell me who pays them. You'll soon find that at most, lobbyists represent relatively small special interests groups or a single large client. That said, unless 300 million Americans hired them (and it would be news to me) then you'd have some sort of point. Their lobbying is just that, honey for worker bees, but not a guarantee nor even.

Groups hire lobbyists, lobbyists talk to and influence congress critters. Kinda how it works, right?

Unless of course you're arguing that being president is somewhat like being a lobbyist which is just well, bafflingly absurd. Hell, I hope you're suggesting that Trump should become a lobbyist. That's a far better position for him. After all, he's used to looking out for small numbers of people. It's definitely far more suitable than being president.

No, I'm responding to your parallel, where you say that a board is all falling into lock step, and it's not true, any more so than the lobbyists representing their groups, leaning on their congress critters.

In the case that you're not, no, the fundamentals are not the same for being president as they are for being a lobbyist. If you're going to come out with such ridiculous examples to try and make your arguments, please stop and think before you post them. I have no time for silly pro-Trump sophist bull.

No, the fundamental process of arriving at a deal is pretty much the same between business and government. Competing interests, finding common ground, and a deal where both get something, but not everything they wanted. So tell me, how's this different than governing and congress?
 
Groups hire lobbyists, lobbyists talk to and influence congress critters. Kinda how it works, right?

So your argument is, as long as you string together enough false comparisons, somewhere along those lines, Trump is just like a lobbyist? I'm not sure what your point is so far. That Trump is going to work out deals with lobbyists? Or that Trump is going to work out political deals while explicitly showing he has no problem throwing away the very constitution that Libertarians, Conservatives and conservatives in hiding bray about when it suits them? Or that working out deals in a contained atmosphere is the same as those conducted in the public sphere? Either way, the entire thing falls apart when we list the number of ways that being president is nothing like being a lobbyist or for that matter a private investor making deals with other private investors - which let's face it, that's what Trump is.

No, I'm responding to your parallel, where you say that a board is all falling into lock step, and it's not true, any more so than the lobbyists representing their groups, leaning on their congress critters.

Lol... wha? I NEVER said anything even remotely related to that. I said that the dealmaking Trump talks about is done by a very small number of people, looking out for their own interest. If nothing else, the fact that they're looking out for their (this is a possessive noun, it's key) own interests would mean that they aren't always falling into lockstep.

That said, what Trump talks about is considerably smaller scale (not to mention, entirely inapplicable) to the dealmaking you and Trump think people in congress engage in. Not to mention, slightly more complex as it involves all of the divisions I just pointed out in the previous post. That's kind of the entire point. That it went way over your head, and you decided to make a straw man out of it does not surprise me.

No, the fundamental process of arriving at a deal is pretty much the same between business and government. Competing interests, finding common ground, and a deal where both get something, but not everything they wanted. So tell me, how's this different than governing and congress?

Lmao, yes, I made a deal last night for 3 pieces of artwork and got paid 6 months of a McDonald's employees full time salary. I feel like I have the capability of being a lawmaker because we have the same supposed fundamentals and some guy on the internet says so. Do you honestly know how silly your premise sounds? It sounds as idiotic as the guy who said that all you needed to be president is US citizenship and being over 35.

That's why college dropouts are running wild in congress and they run government. I am being extremely facetious because your arguments deserve it. So let's be serious: No, making somewhat mediocre business deals in the age where 25 year olds become billionaires does not mean you are qualified to be president anymore than they are.

The fundamental differences are this:

1. 300 million people divided along dozens of interests, and political concerns, geographic lines, represented by 100s of people with lobbyists influencing them. Slightly different than 15-20 guys in a boardroom unless of course, you can show how it's the same.
2. The president has no role in assessing any of those group concerns. The most he can do is block the process until he gets whatever he wants out of a bill, and that's hardly "dealmaking". It's especially inapplicable to well... Slightly different than being a CEO in some company, and simply firing whomever stands in your way and is somewhat bellow your pay grade.
3. The president, has no role in dealing with the personal working relationships formed between lobbyists and congressmen... which is you know, slightly different than 15-20 guys getting together in a boardroom and deciding what to do as a group.

So again, how is Trump's job like the presidents or for that matter a lobbyist?

:lol:
 
Last edited:
So your argument is, as long as you string together enough false comparisons, somewhere along those lines, Trump is just like a lobbyist? I'm not sure what your point is so far. That Trump is going to work out deals with lobbyists? Or that Trump is going to work out political deals while explicitly showing he has no problem throwing away the very constitution that Libertarians, Conservatives and conservatives in hiding braying about when it suits them? Or that working out deals in a contained atmosphere is the same as those conducted in the public sphere? Either way, the entire thing falls apart when we list the number of ways that being president is nothing like being a lobbyist or for that matter a private investor making deals with other private investors - which let's face it, that's what Trump is.



Lol... wha? I NEVER said anything even remotely related to that. I said that the dealmaking Trump talks about is done by a very small number of people, looking out for their own interest. If nothing else, the fact that they're looking out for their (this is a possessive noun, it's key) own interests would mean that they aren't always falling into lockstep.

That said, what Trump talks about is considerably smaller scale (not to mention, entirely inapplicable) to the dealmaking you and Trump think people in congress engage in. Not to mention, slightly more complex as it involves all of the divisions I just pointed out in the previous post. That's kind of the entire point. That it went way over your head, and you decided to make a straw man out of it does not surprise me.



Lmao, yes, I made a deal last night for 3 pieces of artwork and got paid 6 months of a McDonald's employees full time salary. I feel like I have the capability of being a lawmaker because we have the same supposed fundamentals and some guy on the internet says so. Do you honestly know how silly your premise sounds? It sounds as idiotic as the guy who said that all you needed to be president is US citizenship and being over 35.

That's why college dropouts are running wild in congress and they run government. I am being extremely facetious because your arguments deserve it. So let's be serious: No, making somewhat mediocre business deals in the age where 25 year olds become billionaires does not mean you are qualified to be president anymore than they are.

:lol:

The bottom line here is that Trump has made a career make deals, deals that only worked if everyone had skin in the game, got interest(s) they wanted which they saw as a greater gain than the interest(s) they gave up to get the deal.

Same could be applied to congress, to make congress work again, move the the people's business forward, rather than what we'd had.
 
The bottom line here is that Trump has made a career make deals, deals that only worked if everyone had skin in the game, got interest(s) they wanted which they saw as a greater gain than the interest(s) they gave up to get the deal.

Same could be applied to congress, to make congress work again, move the the people's business forward, rather than what we'd had.

Let's count the number of times you said "deal" without having a congruent, much less convincing argument for why making deals in the "private sector" has anything to do with lawmaking. 1 deal, 2 deals, 3 deals! A-Haha-ha (it's hard to get the Count's voice with just writing so imagine a puppet looked at your post, and started counting your repetitive use of the same word without so much as making an argument). This puppet:

anigif_enhanced-buzz-10739-1361906371-6.gif


Anyways, if you're not even going to make an effort to defend your position ....or try something other than repeating the same incomplete and inferior arguments over and over again, why bother? Do you think kids who sell lemonade are qualified to be president? I mean, those are deals. Right? What about NFL players? Do you think those guys are qualified to make deals? I mean, they make million dollar deals every other year. Some of those guys finish with so many concussions they may as well be functioning retards by the time they leave the NFL. Are they qualified to be president? I mean, they do make deals. Right?

That's really what your position boils down to: Making a deal, qualifies you.

We all know it really doesn't.
 
Last edited:
Let's count the number of times you said "deal" without having a congruent, much less convincing argument for why making deals in the "private sector" has anything to do with lawmaking. 1 deal, 2 deals, 3 deals! A-Haha-ha (it's hard to get the Count's voice with just writing so imagine a puppet looked at your post, and started counting your repetitive use of the same word without so much as making an argument). This puppet:

anigif_enhanced-buzz-10739-1361906371-6.gif


Anyways, if you're not even going to make an effort to defend your position ....or try something other than repeating the same incomplete and inferior arguments over and over again, why bother? Do you think kids who sell lemonade are qualified to be president? I mean, those are deals. Right? What about NFL players? Do you think those guys are qualified to make deals? I mean, they make million dollar deals every other year. Some of those guys finish with so many concussions they may as well be functioning retards by the time they leave the NFL. Are they qualified to be president? I mean, they do make deals. Right?

That's really what your position boils down to: Making a deal, qualifies you.

We all know it really doesn't.

I see you are pettifogging the argument, bringing in all kinds of non sequiturs. I'll just ignore all that.

So what sort of governance are you going to get without 'making a deal' (i.e. a compromise)?
Isn't this the very thing that so many of the electorate have objected with the present congress?

Now suppose that there's someone skilled in the art of finding common ground between parties, and finding a compromise position that all parties can subscribe to. Wouldn't that be a positive in the congressional / executive branch setting?

I'm thinking so, and this has been central to my argument from the git go.
 
I see you are pettifogging the argument, bringing in all kinds of non sequiturs. I'll just ignore all that.

Umm, you're the one who has placed all of the emphasis on Trump being able to make a deal. Hell, you've been rambling and repeating the word "deal" more times than that Howie Mandel TV show.

Anyways, it's pretty obvious why you're doing it. Let's face it, that's all you really know about Trump. Whatever you've been allowed to see on television. No mention of his numerous failed business ventures, no mention of the fact that the idiot could have literally ha the same amount of money if he'd just ... you know, let somebody else do all of his mediocre work.

That said, there are 300 million people in US who make some sort of business deal every other day. Kids, adults, old people, retards who buy candy. Are all 300 million qualified? Is a 25 year old making billion dollar deals (that was Mark Zuckerberg a few years ago) qualified to become president? Obviously not. Obviously not. It's a silly argument. I mean, you can't even place Trump within these deals, much less explain how they're relevant to being president. There's nothing pettifogged about pointing that out. It's been pretty evident from the beginning.

So what exactly is it about "making a deal" that qualifies Trump for president? Does that make him more qualified in comparison to all of the other people running who have, you know, lawmaking experience and actually have some grasp of how the US legal framework... works?

I'm still waiting for you to explain what lobbying has to do with being president by the way. I don't think you actually thought that comparison out too well.
 
Last edited:
Umm, you're the one who has placed all of the emphasis on Trump being able to make a deal. Hell, you've been rambling and repeating the word "deal" more times than that Howie Mandel TV show.

Anyways, it's pretty obvious why you're doing it. Let's face it, that's all you really know about Trump. Whatever you've been allowed to see on television. No mention of his numerous failed business ventures, no mention of the fact that the idiot could have literally ha the same amount of money if he'd just ... you know, let somebody else do all of his mediocre work.
And you make this assertion based on which set of 'facts'?
That said, there are 300 million people in US who make some sort of business deal every other day. Kids, adults, old people, retards who buy candy. Are all 300 million qualified? Is a 25 year old making billion dollar deals (that was Mark Zuckerberg a few years ago) qualified to become president? Obviously not. Obviously not. It's a silly argument. I mean, you can't even place Trump within these deals, much less explain how they're relevant to being president. There's nothing pettifogged about pointing that out. It's been pretty evident from the beginning.

Yeah, right. Dragging in NFL concussions isn't pettifogging. Get real.

You are quite right that just because many people are making a few deals here and there, doesn't qualify them for presidency. Compare that with Trump who's made more deals and has achieved far more success at it. But don't let these inconvenient facts impinge on your position.

So what exactly is it about "making a deal" that qualifies Trump for president? Does that make him more qualified in comparing to all of the other people running who have, you know, lawmaking experience (With again, the exceptions of Fiorina, Trump and Carson)?

Lawmaking experience would be more needed in the congressional roles. The president is part of the executive branch and it's called executive for a reason.

Are Trump and Fiorina executives? Why yes they are.
Have Trump and Fiorina been the executives for large complex multinational organizations / corporations? Why yes they have.
Do executives for large complex multinational organizations / corporations drive forward to compromise agreements? Why yes they do.
In driving these compromise agreements forward do they gain valuable experience in negotiating? Why yes they do.
Have Trump and Fiorina met with more success in these roles than failures? Why yes they have.
Have they had failures / set backs in these roles? Why yes they have.
Have they overcome these failures / set backs? Why yes they have.

My conclusion is that both Trump and Fiorina bring a large amount of experience, skill and knowledge to the presidential role in exactly what's been lacking the most in at least the last 8 years.
 
25% of female voters support Trump!!! Even many women on the right on this board. What is that, Stockholm Syndrome?
 
And you make this assertion based on which set of 'facts'?

I made a number of assertions. Be specific.

Yeah, right. Dragging in NFL concussions isn't pettifogging. Get real.

Says the guy who tried to make a failed connection between being Trump, being a lobbyist and being US president. I don't think you actually understood the point. I'm not entirely surprised. You've yet to make a clear and concise argument. That said, when you actually see an argument which is clear and concise you are incapable of recognizing it. The point of bringing up all of those examples was this: How does making a few deals, make you qualified to be president? All of those people make deals. Are they qualified too? You've yet to answer these questions.

It seems obvious why:

Admitting that "making a deal" in a boardroom has little relevance to being president is really giving away the one argument you have. The one argument we keep hearing from Trump and Trump supporters because the man lacks well let's see how many types of experience he has none of: lawmaking experience, military experience, governing experience, and well... I could name more but I think you'll get it with those. I can offer a wider list if you're interested in knowing all of the fields in which Trump simply doesn't measure up to the average a congressional aid never mind congressman.

You are quite right that just because many people are making a few deals here and there, doesn't qualify them for presidency. Compare that with Trump who's made more deals and has achieved far more success at it. But don't let these inconvenient facts impinge on your position.

Again, these are largely irrelevant. Mark Zuckerberg was making billion dollar deals in his 20s. Is he qualified to be president? I don't think so. I know people who went from nothing to having houses in St. Maarten all through a series of business deals. They're talking doorknobs who make Joe Biden seem like a child of the Enlightenment. So again, what relevance do these deals have to American politics? Does making deals make you knowledgeable in nuclear energy legislation? What relevance does it have to lawmaking or just politics in general?

These are all questions that Trump supporters simply can't answer and you, like sanman are no different in that aspect. All we keep hearing is that Trump is a business person. That's nice but it doesn't say much. There are millions of Americans who make business deals every day. Some of them far more important to the US economy that whatever Trump has managed to put his name on lately. They're not qualified to be president. So why the hell is Trump?

Lawmaking experience would be more needed in the congressional roles. The president is part of the executive branch and it's called executive for a reason.

Lmao, this is an amazingly weak argument even for somebody who has avoided making any argument. The executive (at both state and federal levels) is incredibly involved in lawmaking. If they weren't, we wouldn't have "ObamaCare", No Child Left Behind, the Patriot Act and "RomneyCare". All of which are the combined result of the president's party passing the executive's agenda through. Do you think ObamaCare/NCLB/PA got passed with some light input from the executive and the party doing the heavy lifting? Nonsense. They were the entire way through advising and fine tuning to ensure the president would sign whatever was on his agenda.

Again, this is something Trump has no experience with at any level. If you're not even going to make an effort, please. Just stop. It's embarrassing to watch you ask questions so you can avoid having to actually answer any.
 
Last edited:
I made a number of assertions. Be specific.



Says the guy who tried to make a failed connection between being Trump, being a lobbyist and being US president. I don't think you actually understood the point. I'm not entirely surprised. You've yet to make a clear and concise argument. That said, when you actually see an argument which is clear and concise you are incapable of recognizing it. The point of bringing up all of those examples was this: How does making a few deals, make you qualified to be president? All of those people make deals. Are they qualified too? You've yet to answer these questions.

It seems obvious why:

Admitting that "making a deal" in a boardroom has little relevance to being president is really giving away the one argument you have. The one argument we keep hearing from Trump and Trump supporters because the man lacks well let's see how many types of experience he has none of: lawmaking experience, military experience, governing experience, and well... I could name more but I think you'll get it with those. I can offer a wider list if you're interested in knowing all of the fields in which Trump simply doesn't measure up to the average a congressional aid never mind congressman.



Again, these are largely irrelevant. Mark Zuckerberg was making billion dollar deals in his 20s. Is he qualified to be president? I don't think so. I know people who went from nothing to having houses in St. Maarten all through a series of business deals. They're talking doorknobs who make Joe Biden seem like a child of the Enlightenment. So again, what relevance do these deals have to American politics? Does making deals make you knowledgeable in nuclear energy legislation? What relevance does it have to lawmaking or just politics in general?

These are all questions that Trump supporters simply can't answer and you, like sanman are no different in that aspect. All we keep hearing is that Trump is a business person. That's nice but it doesn't say much. There are millions of Americans who make business deals every day. Some of them far more important to the US economy that whatever Trump has managed to put his name on lately. They're not qualified to be president. So why the hell is Trump?



Lmao, this is an amazingly weak argument even for somebody who has avoided making any argument. The executive (at both state and federal levels) is incredibly involved in lawmaking. If they weren't, we wouldn't have "ObamaCare", No Child Left Behind, the Patriot Act and "RomneyCare". All of which are the combined result of the president's party passing the executive's agenda through. Do you think ObamaCare/NCLB/PA got passed with some light input from the executive and the party doing the heavy lifting? Nonsense. They were the entire way through advising and fine tuning to ensure the president would sign whatever was on his agenda.

Again, this is something Trump has no experience with at any level. If you're not even going to make an effort, please. Just stop. It's embarrassing to watch you ask questions so you can avoid having to actually answer any.

Geez, all more pettifogging.

Hey! Talking about Trump, eh?

I notice that you completely ignore the following:

Are Trump and Fiorina executives? Why yes they are.
Have Trump and Fiorina been the executives for large complex multinational organizations / corporations? Why yes they have.
Do executives for large complex multinational organizations / corporations drive forward to compromise agreements? Why yes they do.
In driving these compromise agreements forward do they gain valuable experience in negotiating? Why yes they do.
Have Trump and Fiorina met with more success in these roles than failures? Why yes they have.
Have they had failures / set backs in these roles? Why yes they have.
Have they overcome these failures / set backs? Why yes they have.

My conclusion is that both Trump and Fiorina bring a large amount of experience, skill and knowledge to the presidential role in exactly what's been lacking the most in at least the last 8 years.
 
The civil has been over for a long time already.

The art of the deal is in fact to reach an equitable compromise, in business as in governing. The reason the current crop of politicians can't seem to make a deal as they've not had a career in making them.

Deal making has been this man's specialty, his career. Clearly he's good at it. I don't think he could fare any worse

You're not listening. It isn't magic.

Compromises look negative to others in a presidential system. Deal making weakens the political position of the person or group on the receiving end of the deal.
 
You're not listening. It isn't magic.

Compromises look negative to others in a presidential system. Deal making weakens the political position of the person or group on the receiving end of the deal.

If it's a compromise, there really isn't a giving or receiving end of the deal.

For a long time the electorate has been fed up with the inability of congress to do the people's business; the stand offs, and the impasses. One would think that any sign of actually attending to the people's business, especially on some of these knotty, harder problems that need to be resolved, would be considered as progress, even if it isn't everything that everyone wants.
 
I thought birthers were relegated to the conspiracy forum.
There is no conspiracy being discussed.
Care to actual refute the information provided? Never mind the question as I am sure you can not, as it is factual and accurate, which is probably why you chose to post in the manner you did.
 
Trump has surged to his widest lead yet over everyone else, polling at 41%

Donald Trump Hits 41 Percent Support and Widest Lead Yet in New National Poll - ABC News

He is literally making history, and showing that he's the best choice to lead the fight against Hillary.

Not a chance in hell. You may like him a lot yesterday and like him even more today... still just one vote. this is 41% of a single party. Independents and dems, as well as a slew of republicans have his negatives "making history" and there is no way he can breach that chasm of negatives to get into the whitehouse.

NO

WAY.
 
Well 41% of 47% (the now famous Romney stat) equals 19.3% overall which is still not enough to get elected.

Maybe Trump is getting closer to being nominated however.

Once he has the nomination sewn up, then we can expect to hear from the real Donald.

Then and only then will the real Donald please stand up -- please stand up.

He says what he thinks the people standing in front of him want to hear. It would be interesting to see what he'd say for the general election with a totally different audience to appeal to. I seriously doubt he could expect to wash away all the crap he's spewn this primary though.
 
That's really sad because the GOP needs all the douche bag votes it can get.

The hope is that enough Independents will join in too.

It absolutely does NOT matter who the GOP candidate is this time around.

There are way too many SCOTUS nominations at stake now to be a prissy princess.

That is weighing HEAVILY on my mind this election.
 
That is weighing HEAVILY on my mind this election.

your one vote has never decided an election and odds are, it never will.

so you a can lighten up some, you aren't going to make a difference.
 
He says what he thinks the people standing in front of him want to hear. It would be interesting to see what he'd say for the general election with a totally different audience to appeal to. I seriously doubt he could expect to wash away all the crap he's spewn this primary though.

Well CNN was not letting him forget it, but I think the Body Politic have shorter memories.
 
your one vote has never decided an election and odds are, it never will.

so you a can lighten up some, you aren't going to make a difference.

That's that good 'ol democratic mentality.

Don't worry, I always vote so you can go on and on about how worthless it is... won't stop me.
 
Well CNN was not letting him forget it, but I think the Body Politic have shorter memories.

Perhaps. but the shifting technology of getting news makes watching a video of him a click away.
 
Back
Top Bottom