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Trump loses bid to lift contempt charge despite swearing he can’t find subpoenaed documents

dcsports said:
Oh, I'm not saying he's not responsible for his actions when he was CEO or the submissions he signed. Just that he probably doesn't have personal copies of the underlying records James is asking for. If the business is the custodian of the records, she should send the subpoena to them. If she hasn't already done that, she's an idiot.
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You don't know what he has.
 
dcsports said:
Oh, I'm not saying he's not responsible for his actions when he was CEO or the submissions he signed. Just that he probably doesn't have personal copies of the underlying records James is asking for. If the business is the custodian of the records, she should send the subpoena to them. If she hasn't already done that, she's an idiot.
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I think we need to know if Trump personally signs-off on these documents.

If so, I'd argue he's on the hook for them.

The bigger picture may be political. America is disgusted with fat cats who always skate on responsibility.
 
dcsports said:
Oh, I'm not saying he's not responsible for his actions when he was CEO or the submissions he signed. Just that he probably doesn't have personal copies of the underlying records James is asking for. If the business is the custodian of the records, she should send the subpoena to them. If she hasn't already done that, she's an idiot.
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As CEO, all he has to do is ask his company to send them or give them to him so he can send them. It's a family business, not a bank. All he has to do is ask
 
dcsports said:
I certainly can think that. If he doesn't have the documents - he doesn't have them. I can understand requiring more specific information on what steps Mr. Trump took to look for the records, but once he did that there's not a good reason to hold him in contempt and continue to levy a daily fine. If there's evidence he lied - sure, throw the book at him. Otherwise James should request the records from the company down the street from her.



It's an opinion, based on normal business practice. Do you think he personally kept copies of every record on every property and moved it around with him? Why would he do that?
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I think the point is pretty straight forward. Trump was CEO and is still the owner of the Trump Org. If he wanted to comply, he could easily instruct his kids and other company officers in NY to get on with it. It's a delay tactic. He's hiding behind the fact that he moved off to FL. Don't think for a minute that Trump doesn't spend hours a day on the phone with his kids.

Neither the judge nor Ms. James are blind. Trump wants to play games and believes he's above the law. Somehow, I don't think the AG is playing.
 
reflechissez said:
You don't know what he has.
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I don't. That's kind of the point of the subpoena. His response - submitted by his team of attorneies - is probably accurate though.
 
Trump should look in the boxes of classified documents that found their way to Mar-a-Lago…….



On a tangent, did the NY Grand Jury get dismissed?
 
dcsports said:
I don't. That's kind of the point of the subpoena. His response - submitted by his team of attorneies - is probably accurate though.
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What are you basing this on (other than you want it to be true)?
 
dcsports said:
I don't. That's kind of the point of the subpoena. His response - submitted by his team of attorneies - is probably accurate though.
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Trump has a pretty bad track record on hiring attorneys. Do I need to go thru the list? One disbarred, one convicted of a felony and two with law licenses suspended for telling lies in courtrooms. What makes you think his current attorney is any better than those I just mentioned?
 
Chomsky said:
I think we need to know if Trump personally signs-off on these documents.

If so, I'd argue he's on the hook for them.

The bigger picture may be political. America is disgusted with fat cats who always skate on responsibility.
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My understanding is that it's not the records he signed, or were signed on behalf of his company (which James would already have). She wants the supporting business documents. It's just common sense that these would be maintained by the company in New York, but their record's custodian, and not carried around by Trump himself.

I can understand that people don't like Trump, and would like to see him and other 'fat cats' be held responsible. And if he did something illegal, he should be. James has to make that case though, and honestly if the best she can do is property valuation discrepancies he may be one of the more honest property developers in NYC.
 
Callen said:
Trump doesn't know where any of his sole ownership business records are but Joe Biden know all the details of his sons business dealings.........just SMH
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It's amazing how that works. I know nothing but biden knows everything about his son's business. Uh huh. Another CEO who knows nothing about his business and yet he wants to be president again?
 
MaryP said:
As CEO, all he has to do is ask his company to send them or give them to him so he can send them. It's a family business, not a bank. All he has to do is ask
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FORMER CEO. He probably could, but he doesn't have to make it easy for her. All she has to do is issue a subpoena to the company, which is in her city.
 
The AntiDonald said:
I think the point is pretty straight forward. Trump was CEO and is still the owner of the Trump Org. If he wanted to comply, he could easily instruct his kids and other company officers in NY to get on with it. It's a delay tactic. He's hiding behind the fact that he moved off to FL. Don't think for a minute that Trump doesn't spend hours a day on the phone with his kids.

Neither the judge nor Ms. James are blind. Trump wants to play games and believes he's above the law. Somehow, I don't think the AG is playing.
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Sure, he probably could ask for them. Again though, he doesn't have to help out James. She should have requested the records from both places - and if she didn't, she's an idiot.
 
reflechissez said:
What are you basing this on (other than you want it to be true)?
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Attorney's are officers of the court and don't want to be disbarred or thrown into prison for lying to the court. They would also tell Trump to not lie.
 
dcsports said:
I think this is going to get at least modified - if not tossed - on appeal.

As for #2 - It's not 'pawning off responsibility'. It makes sense that the Trump Organization (a business in New York) would have the detailed business records that James is so anxious to get, and she should request the records from that company. Keep in mind that these are records from a decade ago, and have likely been archived or destroyed based on record retention policies. Trump left the day to day operation of the company six years ago. The company manages hundreds of properties. It wouldn't make sense for Trump to have personal copies that he carried to the White House or on to Florida.
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Trump now has a habit of taking records with him after he leaves places......
 
Callen said:
Trump doesn't know where any of his sole ownership business records are but Joe Biden know all the details of his sons business dealings.........just SMH
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Yeah, that is about right,
 
Another $10K……..whoosh…..
 
Tbird19482 said:
Well he is getting fined 10,000 a day now and I don't know if that is the Max they can fine him but if there isn't a max get his attention and take it up to 100,000 a day.
and if that doesn't do it take it up to where it starts to hurt him and gets his attention
His money seems to be the only thing he cares about.
Have a nice day
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Well, one court case recently an arizonia judge fined Cyber Ninja's 50K a day.
 
dcsports said:
My understanding is that it's not the records he signed, or were signed on behalf of his company (which James would already have). She wants the supporting business documents. It's just common sense that these would be maintained by the company in New York, but their record's custodian, and not carried around by Trump himself.

I can understand that people don't like Trump, and would like to see him and other 'fat cats' be held responsible. And if he did something illegal, he should be. James has to make that case though, and honestly if the best she can do is property valuation discrepancies he may be one of the more honest property developers in NYC.
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If she can prove all what has been discussed, Trump will be guilty of tax evasion and bank/insurance fraud on a grand scale. I realize it's only a civil suit, but she could put the Trump Org out of business. Then the feds can get on with the criminal charges. All hypotheticals of course.

It's funny we all talk about the rule of law in America. If you or I were to be convicted of withholding only a few thousand in income on our tax returns, we're likely going to jail. I would guess Trump hides that much on a daily basis and has been doing so for 30 years. His dad taught him well.
 
dcsports said:
Attorney's are officers of the court and don't want to be disbarred or thrown into prison for lying to the court. They would also tell Trump to not lie.
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Sure, that's what attorneys with integrity do. Trump claims he only hires the best people. That has been shown over and over to not be the case. Have you even read just a few of the Trump attorney briefs? They can't even spell correctly and don't seem to think it matters.
 
Allan said:
"Unable to find documents" is an interesting legal strategy isn't it. I'm going to try that for next year's tax season.
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It's kinda "I don't recall" where they are, might be at the office of my company.
 
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