Trump kicked the sluggish economy onto high gear

[Mycroft]

Only those of us who have invested in the stock market, you know, capitalists. The rest of the people don't care, but they should.

This is an amazingly naive and inaccurate statement, and blatantly wrong.

Anyone invested in the market cares - which is just over half of Americans. Along with anyone who owns a 401K - which is nearly 40% of those employed.

Those 401Ks are depended upon to carry employees through their retirement. The guys I used to work with in the corporate world followed them like hawks. Why wouldn't they? It's their life's savings.

So tell me...are you pissed at the speculators who control your market? Who control whether you make money or not?

You should be.

 

[Dittohead not!]

uhh, where do you see down?
NAME PRICE 1/20/17 PRICE NOW %
S&P 500 2,269.96 2,648.35 UP 16.67

NASDAQ 100 5,070.15 6,673.61
1
NASDAQ Comp. 5,556.87 7,031.47 UP 26.54%

Dow Jones 19,795.06 24,557.26 UP 24%

and, in more recent news:

Stocks dropped sharply on Friday, concluding what has been a wild week for Wall Street. A weaker-than-expected jobs report and China-U.S. trade tensions sent the Dow Jones Industrial Average lower by 460 points.

 

[Dittohead not!]

So funny- the trade deficit. LAFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I wonder if the DNC's house organ will change their mind.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/us/politics/trade-deficit-tariffs-economists-trump.html

"Trump Hates the Trade Deficit. Most Economists Don’t."


....and when the NYT uses the term 'most economists" they mean Krugman , Pilketty Stigltz and Sachs

GUFFAW

Well, then, let's hope that are Krugman , Pilketty Stigltz Sachs and Guffaw are right and Trump is wrong about the desirability of a trade deficit:

US trade deficit in goods grows to record $77bn in October

 

[Dittohead not!]

Good joke, but you are not seeing the greatest revolution of revulsion in human history as anything American becomes hate in this country. Your lying bully is so vilely hated here we would have to brace for war were to come now.

In the supermarket, workers complain that shoppers when learning their fruit is from California storm out of the store and head to the one with the sign in the window "no American product".

Canada has always had an edge of '**** you' about America, but it's turning into outright hatred, so uncharacteristic for these people, it's frightening. The "new" trade agreement Trump vaunts? May not pass Parliament because of one concession - we take another .5% of your dairy product.

I have never seen anything like this before, even when we were closing border points with demonstrations over Vietnam and nuke testing. No, my advice to Americans now is "don't come here"

Please tell your countrymen for me than only 60% of the adults in this country voted in the 2016 election, and less than half of them voted for Trump. It's not fair to vilify an entire country for less than 30% of us having been taken in by the conman that is Trump.

and that California grown fruit is the best, and was mostly harvested not by Americans, but by Mexicans.

Most of whom were most likely in this country illegally.

 

[sangha]

So what?

Oh...wait...that's right. He's not snapping his fingers fast enough or waving his magic wand fast enough for you.

Trump doing more would only make the trade deficit increase faster.

Your argument sounds like the guy who bought widget for $10 each and sold them at $6 each and thought he would make it up by selling in volume.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-kicked-the-sluggish-economy-into-high-gear-1543175630

For eight years under President Obama, the growing burden of government suppressed the economic recovery that should have followed the recession of 2008-09. Mr. Obama nonetheless has claimed responsibility for today’s boom, asking Americans in September to “remember when this recovery started.” Yet it wasn’t until President Trump took office that the economy surged. …The result is a rising tide that is lifting boats across every class and region of the country. …Today unemployment rests at 3.7%, near a 50-year low. Since the government began reporting the data, unemployment has never been as low as it is today for African-Americans, Latinos, Asians and people with only a high-school education.

Unemployment was at 4.7% when Obama left. That's down from a peak of 10%. Romeny promised he would get us to 6%. Obama got below 5%.

There was no turnaround under Trump like Obama. When Obama got into office we were losing 500k jobs a month. He left with the longest streak of job growth is history.

Comparing Trump to Obama is laughable. Trump has been in office 2 years.

 

[jnug]

So funny- the trade deficit. LAFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I wonder if the DNC's house organ will change their mind.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/us/politics/trade-deficit-tariffs-economists-trump.html

"Trump Hates the Trade Deficit. Most Economists Don’t."


....and when the NYT uses the term 'most economists" they mean Krugman , Pilketty Stigltz and Sachs

GUFFAW

Actually in and off itself, a trade deficit is not a bad thing though Trump seems to think so. Our mistake was in not retraining our skilled labor force to be a 21st Century skilled labor force. We had 30 years to do the job and instead did our usual NOTHING. So now comes Donald promising to bring back the jobs that went overseas as if sending low value jobs overseas was a bad idea. It wasn't. Technology/automation will eliminate 8:10 of the jobs Trump wants to bring back in 10 years, less than a generation.

We just did not do the second half of the job, training our skilled labor force for the 21st Century, higher value jobs we wanted to keep here.

Now back to the trade deficit itself. Unfortunately for us, our budget deficit feeds the wrong end of our trade deficit. Every $ we borrow from China or from anybody else feeds the trade deficit numbers. Again, a trade deficit just based on goods and services is not in and of itself bad IF you are getting the goods and services you expected in trade and IF you prepared your labor force for the different employment dynamics they would face. Your remade economy DOES NOT have to reciprocate to the country you are borrowing from or taking goods and services from as long as YOUR newly configured goods and services are going somewhere, into your own economy and into the world economy. But we didn't train up our skilled labor force though we literally had 30 years to do it (approximately two generations of Americans) and now we are borrowing so much money from China that it actually represents a significant portion of our trade deficit. So its the borrowing that is killing us and the gap between the skilled labor force and the skilled labor force we need to have.

Needless to say Tariffs help none of this as Tariffs are simply taxes on Americans. That is all they are. To some extent Tariffs do provide some revenue to the Treasury. But they do it in a wholly counterproductive fashion and Tariffs are as flat and non-progressive a tax as you are ever going to see. That means the middle class and lower income Americans get to take it on the chin AGAIN.

Tariffs should only be applied to very specific industries that you want to protect for some period and in truth you should be trying to ween yourself off of them if you need significant tariffs to protect them. Diary in Canada and Tobacco here in the US might be good examples. Canada at least has the rational of a widely disparate domestic dairy market which is why they protect it so. Why on earth we protect tobacco here to the extent that we do and for as long as we have...I have no earthly idea.

All that we got out of the too large Corp tax cut is a sugar high economic binge, stock buybacks and a ballooning deficit which is all we should have expected. Tossing more money at Corporations already fat with cash HAS NEVER WORKED as a means to instigate capital investment...NEVER. Reaganomics failed miserably with "41" forced to eat his "no new taxes" pledge to start the process of bailing us out of that failed economic program.

 

[ultmd]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-kicked-the-sluggish-economy-into-high-gear-1543175630

For eight years under President Obama, the growing burden of government suppressed the economic recovery that should have followed the recession of 2008-09. Mr. Obama nonetheless has claimed responsibility for today’s boom, asking Americans in September to “remember when this recovery started.” Yet it wasn’t until President Trump took office that the economy surged. …The result is a rising tide that is lifting boats across every class and region of the country. …Today unemployment rests at 3.7%, near a 50-year low. Since the government began reporting the data, unemployment has never been as low as it is today for African-Americans, Latinos, Asians and people with only a high-school education.

:lamo

Another empty-headed right wing op/ed. Why do conservatives ALWAYS get their "news" and "fact" from opinion pieces?

The answer, of course, is self-explanatory and thus requires no futher comment.

Andy Puzder is an attorney with an undergraduate degree in History. No one cares about his economic analyses.

There's good reason why most ECONOMISTS (conservative and liberal alike) laugh at, and dismiss these kinds of "economic analyses".

 

[Chomsky]

While I am a Liberal the good numbers are not all theirs. Harper's conservatives had tightened up so much country couldn't breathe, which Trudeau and his cabinet are building on.

But we were never hit by '08 as you all were, we had a surplus at the tilme (we love being taxed so much we like tax surpluses - the government taking more than it needs).

If I were writing about it today I would walk the credit back to the Pearson era, 50's and 60's and through Trudeau I where a defined move was made to move off the USA as our only market. Then, 89% of Canada's business was done with the US. Now, it's less than 40%.

And as an aside, from my perspective, your governments have been hugely irresponsible in creating "political based debt" promises made to buy votes.

And in the end its about the relationship of a government not only with people, but business as well. Your business community is looking to pack up and move out...tariffs hurt them more than the electorate

Thanks as always for the great insight, F & L. I do admire that while you lean fairly liberal, as I do, you do indeed present a balanced and grounded opinion.

No, those functions lie with the Bank of Canada, which is not a bank but a "house of the exchequer" dating back to the days of real Royal power and the Crown using a kind of governorship about that economy. The Governor of the Bank of Canada is appointed by her excellency the Governor General on the recommendations of Parliament, not the government. (that distinction always seems to confuse Americans)

The BOC plays the same role as the Fed, I assume, but also monitors banking trends and activities; however in the second half of the 20th century the role became more and more one of managing the economy with a light hand. The former governor, David Dodge is credited with having saved Canada from the effects of the US housing crisis and actually grow within it; a role that led to him being appointed the top money guy for the EU.

The primary difference is that the BOC is entirely non political. No prime minister would ever even think of trying to tamper, the last one who tried, Stephen Harper lost his job instead.

And see my earlier post about our ties to the US economy. You will know that the numbers you are quoting are IN SPITE of the Trumpariffs which are hurting both lumber and auto production. It appears we are not concerned all that much about Trump's economic plans.

I find interesting, those figures of the 89% vs 40% U.S. - Canadian trade numbers over the years. The world, and technology, is growing-up. Physical and communicational/informational distance has shrunk & disappeared. My Alibaba Christmas shopping is a great example of this.

Anyway, I found the BOC has an "overnight" rate - which is currently at 1.75%. That's the data I was looking for. And it also appears the BOC does not see a rate raise in the near future, which would seem to allude that the Canuck economy is not heating-up much more at this time. The Loon falling bellow 75 cents U.S., would seem to also indicate this. I remember going to Canada once years ago, when the Canadian dollar was 67 cents USD!

 

[Chomsky]

The "talking heads", TV and radio political analysts are saying the international community isn't sure about anything. After falsely announcing a trade deal with China at the G-20, nothing said or done is trusted by anyone. If anything, foreign investors are bracing for another round of the American torture game: "Impeachment" which becomes the driving force in ALL decisions, just ask Bill.

What's REALLY interesting is that more and more leaders of other countries are turning to Ottawa for advice; we've lived next to the dragon for 150 years.

The world is evolving, as always. America is no longer the reliable leader & partner it once had been, and the world is no longer the west-centered, west-dominated, post-war western alliance it was coming-out of the war. It was a nice seven decade run though, and I'm glad I and my family benefited from it. It was a great time to be alive!

But for those of us that are willing to think in global & trans-industry terms, there's always money and opportunity to be had somewhere doing something. Economies, trade, and geopolitical fortunes, including occupations, rise & fall and ebb & flow. I've got one kid that wants to start his career in China (returning later). And after looking at his numbers & research, hard numbers in hiring and salary along with very specific segmented growth predictions, I fully support his decision and wish him the best. Plus he'll get a great perspective by living abroad as a young person. I got another kid that married-into us, that did a university sponsored internship in China, returning to the States to specialize in Chinese matters in his field. He got scooped right-up by a great U.S. based firm, at a great starting salary, before he even returned!

There's always opportunity for those that are willing to work hard & smart, and follow the money. It's what got both sides of my family to America, earlier in the last century!

 

[Dittohead not!]

Trump kick starts the economy?
Or Trump just kicks the economy?

Forbes: Market Crash Underway

 

[Chomsky]

When our economy roars Canada benefits

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

This I won't deny, at least within some respect.

 

[trouble13]

This I won't deny, at least within some respect.

It's a factual statement and it's a testimate to our friendship with one another but honestly I was just giving you a light hearted ribbing.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Chomsky]

It's a factual statement and it's a testimate to our friendship with one another but honestly I was just giving you a light hearted ribbing.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Hah! Ooops.

I and here I was all serious, after dealing with two day's worth of posts! :mrgreen:

 

[trouble13]

Hah! Ooops.

I and here I was all serious, after dealing with two day's worth of posts! :mrgreen:

No worries...
Humor doesn't always translate well in text form

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Fearandloathing]

Please tell your countrymen for me than only 60% of the adults in this country voted in the 2016 election, and less than half of them voted for Trump. It's not fair to vilify an entire country for less than 30% of us having been taken in by the conman that is Trump.

and that California grown fruit is the best, and was mostly harvested not by Americans, but by Mexicans.

Most of whom were most likely in this country illegally.

I have no say about what my fellow countrymen and women do, and I'm not opposed to the measures being discussed.

It's no longer a matter of simple friendship, it's not about products, or being good neighbors, it's about supporting a totalitarian regime led by a tyrant who hates Canada and hates Canadians. We were first on his list to target with tariffs in the stupid belief he's taxing us, not Americans, but no matter.

Our history has been that we have always stood shoulder to shoulder and there was always a moderated force when idiots got the idea of invading this land a third time. We have been there for you in historic developments like the Embassy siege in Tehran and we have been there in small ways, sending our search and rescue experts whenever asked, and we, as a nation, are done. Thanks for the memories, but the divorce is final.

We have been abundantly aware of the failure of your entire system and grown weary of your complaints/excuses, about illegals; bitch and fight, quarrel and quake but change nothing, and so you end up with the likes of Lyndon Johnson, Ford, Carter, Bushy II and now the a ****ing prick of a man with absolutely no ethics beyond himself....and we are the ones punished.

We don't care that you can't get people to vote, we don't care who picks the ****; we DO care who profits and those Americans have become our enemies. Fruit is fruit, tastes the same in California as it does in Guatemala, Mexico or Cuba. When Trump started this war launching his first attack at Canada we heard no words of protest from even one American. No one stood up and said "hey, we actually have a huge surplus with Canada", we heard no one say "they're our friends, this is wrong."

So, no. I'd say you **** the bed this time and Trump makes it worse every day. But know this is NOT a phase. The way I read it, hear the comments etc., this is a final fed up '**** off', we're done.

SAD

 

[Fearandloathing]

Thanks as always for the great insight, F & L. I do admire that while you lean fairly liberal, as I do, you do indeed present a balanced and grounded opinion.

I find interesting, those figures of the 89% vs 40% U.S. - Canadian trade numbers over the years. The world, and technology, is growing-up. Physical and communicational/informational distance has shrunk & disappeared. My Alibaba Christmas shopping is a great example of this.

Anyway, I found the BOC has an "overnight" rate - which is currently at 1.75%. That's the data I was looking for. And it also appears the BOC does not see a rate raise in the near future, which would seem to allude that the Canuck economy is not heating-up much more at this time. The Loon falling bellow 75 cents U.S., would seem to also indicate this. I remember going to Canada once years ago, when the Canadian dollar was 67 cents USD!

The BOC is strategically careful NOT to let our economy get too heated. What is at play is that sectors of the economy are booming while traditional sectors are falling....and so you get regional disparities. So the aim is to keep interest rates low, protect the dollar and keep things moving.

The biggest asset we have, I heard on the radio, is that our debt is a pittance, costs having been pared in the 90's and 7 years of surplus budgets.

We're a small player in almost every sector and the BOC is that to protect that.

 

[Fearandloathing]

The world is evolving, as always. America is no longer the reliable leader & partner it once had been, and the world is no longer the west-centered, west-dominated, post-war western alliance it was coming-out of the war. It was a nice seven decade run though, and I'm glad I and my family benefited from it. It was a great time to be alive!

But for those of us that are willing to think in global & trans-industry terms, there's always money and opportunity to be had somewhere doing something. Economies, trade, and geopolitical fortunes, including occupations, rise & fall and ebb & flow. I've got one kid that wants to start his career in China (returning later). And after looking at his numbers & research, hard numbers in hiring and salary along with very specific segmented growth predictions, I fully support his decision and wish him the best. Plus he'll get a great perspective by living abroad as a young person. I got another kid that married-into us, that did a university sponsored internship in China, returning to the States to specialize in Chinese matters in his field. He got scooped right-up by a great U.S. based firm, at a great starting salary, before he even returned!

There's always opportunity for those that are willing to work hard & smart, and follow the money. It's what got both sides of my family to America, earlier in the last century!

The future will see China as the world leader in pretty much everything, what the US was in the 50's through the 90's. There used to be a movement here to try not to buy anything from China. It's impossible, you can't get started in the morning because all soap and toothpaste are made in bulk in China.

 

[iguanaman]

Trump is working on the trade deficit. Be patient.

The stock market? Who cares? (The globalists and the speculators care, for sure, but aside from them? Nobody.)

Right. Nobody with 401K's are worth a damn anyway.

 

[Chomsky]

The BOC is strategically careful NOT to let our economy get too heated. What is at play is that sectors of the economy are booming while traditional sectors are falling....and so you get regional disparities. So the aim is to keep interest rates low, protect the dollar and keep things moving.

The biggest asset we have, I heard on the radio, is that our debt is a pittance, costs having been pared in the 90's and 7 years of surplus budgets.

We're a small player in almost every sector and the BOC is that to protect that.

I find this, if accurate, well reasoned and rational.

I for one, was happy with the American economy under Obama. Rates were low, cost of living was low, and the economy calmly and steadily added jobs. It was no drama. The only concern I had, was with low rates leaving little room to stimulate when the time comes.

Now it looks like we headed back into the volatile boom & bust cycles, with additional Trump drama. Quite honestly, I don't see the drama as worth it.

 

[Chomsky]

The future will see China as the world leader in pretty much everything, what the US was in the 50's through the 90's. There used to be a movement here to try not to buy anything from China. It's impossible, you can't get started in the morning because all soap and toothpaste are made in bulk in China.

Agreed. Like it or not, in terms of global dominance we (the States) are going the way of Great Britain. Every empire has its days. That's not to say America won't necessarily be a great place to live. But as the 20th century was America's, the 21st seems it might be China's.

But nothing is ever written in stone. We shall see. If China does not find a way to share the newfound prosperity reasonably well among its 1.2B inhabitants, as those rural areas come online in terms of information infrastructure & exchange, there is always the (perhaps slight) possibility it could (socially) implode.

 

[Chomsky]

Right. Nobody with 401K's are worth a damn anyway.

It's the Trump way:

"Everything is about 'us'. Screw you!"


It seems to be an ingrained way of thinking ...

 

[jnug]

Agreed. Like it or not, in terms of global dominance we (the States) are going the way of Great Britain. Every empire has its days. That's not to say America won't necessarily be a great place to live. But as the 20th century was America's, the 21st seems it might be China's.

But nothing is ever written in stone. We shall see. If China does not find a way to share the newfound prosperity reasonably well among its 1.2B inhabitants, as those rural areas come online in terms of information infrastructure & exchange, there is always the (perhaps slight) possibility it could (socially) implode.

Doubt it...once a lamb it takes pretty close to forever to not be a lamb. If you start seeing fat Chinamen for as far as the eye can see like we see fat Americans on our sidewalks as far as the eye can see, maybe just maybe they might throw up some protest to whomever the leader for life is at that time...some number of generations from now. Until then they will do as Xi asks and like it! They are currently knuckling under to the institution of a countrywide, Citizen Merit and Rating System......Bhaaaaaa.......Bhaaaaaaa......Bhaaaaaaa. SHEEP!

 

[Captain America]

Good joke, but you are not seeing the greatest revolution of revulsion in human history as anything American becomes hate in this country. Your lying bully is so vilely hated here we would have to brace for war were to come now.

In the supermarket, workers complain that shoppers when learning their fruit is from California storm out of the store and head to the one with the sign in the window "no American product".

Canada has always had an edge of '**** you' about America, but it's turning into outright hatred, so uncharacteristic for these people, it's frightening. The "new" trade agreement Trump vaunts? May not pass Parliament because of one concession - we take another .5% of your dairy product.

I have never seen anything like this before, even when we were closing border points with demonstrations over Vietnam and nuke testing. No, my advice to Americans now is "don't come here"

Why would Americans want to go there?

Canadians got ****ty beer and Colorado and California grow weed as good, or better than BC.

Americans must want to come there for the weather. Yeah, that's it. The weather.

 

[Chomsky]

Why would Americans want to go there?

Canadians got ****ty beer and Colorado and California grow weed as good, or better than BC.

Americans must want to come there for the weather. Yeah, that's it. The weather.

I realize you're joking, but consider visiting Montreal & Quebec City. You may not want to stay, but I bet you enjoy your time there.