• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump Impeachment Proceedings With Pelosi Directing Is Every Reason Why Criminal Investigations Should Be Discontinued By Elected Officials

Razoo

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
24,476
Reaction score
7,808
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats



Ralph Nader on Bloomberg, Bernie, and the Rot Within the DNC

https://theintercept.com › 2020/02/16 › ralph-nader-int...
Feb 16, 2020 — On the call, Nader laid out a strategy for attacking Trump that he ... Now, if Nancy Pelosi doesn't do that, Trump will go all over the ...

Democracy Now! - Pelosi Adds Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Trump ...

https://ne-np.facebook.com › posts

In a scathing review of President Joe Biden's first year in office, Ralph Nader calls Biden a "corporate socialist" unable to sell his own legislative agenda.
 
we speak with longtime consumer advocate, corporate critic and former presidential candidate Ralph Nader, who says Democrats set themselves up for defeat by rushing proceedings and failing to call witnesses — including Trump himself. “The narrow approach of the articles of impeachment keep the Democrats from having a full hand,” says Nader. “They have like 10 arrows in their quiver, and they’re using one or two.”



RALPH NADER: Well, Amy, it’s important to know that they were operating as civil proceeding attorneys. This is not a criminal proceeding; it’s a civil proceeding controlled completely by the U.S. Senate. The Supreme Court ruled in Nixon v. the U.S.years ago that the judiciary has no role whatsoever. There’s no appeal. There’s no protracted delays. It’s all up to the Senate, and the Senate rules, number one.

Number two, the purpose of this impeachment effort is prophylactic. It’s designed not just to hold Trump accountable under the Constitution, but to prevent future wannabe Trumps from behaving in the same way. And therefore, the only, really, result of a guilty verdict would be disqualifying Trump from running for federal office anymore.

So, with that background, I think people need to know that the House managers were being managed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She was running the show. And she has two approaches, which she used in the first impeachment. One is she likes to rush the trial. The second is, the reason why she likes to rush the trial, without witnesses and subpoenas, is that she has prejudged the result. She basically says, “These Republicans are intransigent. They’ll never change their mind. Our duty is to impeach in the House and send it over to the Senate.” Now, that is a prescription for defeat, period. And as a result, the narrow approach of the articles of impeachment keep the Democrats from having a full hand. They have like 10 arrows in their quiver, and they’re using one or two.

Now, what they should do is call witnesses. The witnesses they should call are not surprising: Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, some of the families of the victims, Garrett Miller or others who said they went down to the Congress on orders of their commander-in-chief who spoke to them, and John Bolton, who said that obstruction of justice was a way of life in the White House. He was the national security adviser, before he resigned.

Otherwise, what the Republicans will do is simply say, “This is a video show trial. A lot of the material was taken out of context. And the protagonists were entirely Democratic partisans, members of the House Democratic Party.” If you have witnesses, you have the potential of breakthrough testimony. Mike Pence, for example, Jay Rosen, for example, Brad Raffensperger, they might be required to testify about far deeper crimes than simply a telephone call to the Justice Department by Trump or to the Georgia secretary of state, twisting their elbows to try to change the course or the count of the election.

That’s the unfortunate aspect of it, Amy, that they had an opportunity.

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats

 
Last edited:
Maybe the loony democrats can impeach President Trump again? It would be their last insane action before the mid-terms.
That would make them giddy.

A huge lost opportunity. Ralph Nader, also wrote a column saying, “Trump should be impeached for his climate policy alone.”
Dec 16, 2019
 
we speak with longtime consumer advocate, corporate critic and former presidential candidate Ralph Nader, who says Democrats set themselves up for defeat by rushing proceedings and failing to call witnesses — including Trump himself. “The narrow approach of the articles of impeachment keep the Democrats from having a full hand,” says Nader. “They have like 10 arrows in their quiver, and they’re using one or two.”



RALPH NADER: Well, Amy, it’s important to know that they were operating as civil proceeding attorneys. This is not a criminal proceeding; it’s a civil proceeding controlled completely by the U.S. Senate. The Supreme Court ruled in Nixon v. the U.S.years ago that the judiciary has no role whatsoever. There’s no appeal. There’s no protracted delays. It’s all up to the Senate, and the Senate rules, number one.

Number two, the purpose of this impeachment effort is prophylactic. It’s designed not just to hold Trump accountable under the Constitution, but to prevent future wannabe Trumps from behaving in the same way. And therefore, the only, really, result of a guilty verdict would be disqualifying Trump from running for federal office anymore.

So, with that background, I think people need to know that the House managers were being managed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She was running the show. And she has two approaches, which she used in the first impeachment. One is she likes to rush the trial. The second is, the reason why she likes to rush the trial, without witnesses and subpoenas, is that she has prejudged the result. She basically says, “These Republicans are intransigent. They’ll never change their mind. Our duty is to impeach in the House and send it over to the Senate.” Now, that is a prescription for defeat, period. And as a result, the narrow approach of the articles of impeachment keep the Democrats from having a full hand. They have like 10 arrows in their quiver, and they’re using one or two.

Now, what they should do is call witnesses. The witnesses they should call are not surprising: Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, some of the families of the victims, Garrett Miller or others who said they went down to the Congress on orders of their commander-in-chief who spoke to them, and John Bolton, who said that obstruction of justice was a way of life in the White House. He was the national security adviser, before he resigned.

Otherwise, what the Republicans will do is simply say, “This is a video show trial. A lot of the material was taken out of context. And the protagonists were entirely Democratic partisans, members of the House Democratic Party.” If you have witnesses, you have the potential of breakthrough testimony. Mike Pence, for example, Jay Rosen, for example, Brad Raffensperger, they might be required to testify about far deeper crimes than simply a telephone call to the Justice Department by Trump or to the Georgia secretary of state, twisting their elbows to try to change the course or the count of the election.

That’s the unfortunate aspect of it, Amy, that they had an opportunity.

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats



Not sure what Nader would want out of this. Republican senators said they would vote to acquit, on a technicality, no less, before the trial even began.

Pleased to see that he is still alive. Thank him for helping Bush win in 2000 for me.
 

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats



Ralph Nader on Bloomberg, Bernie, and the Rot Within the DNC

https://theintercept.com › 2020/02/16 › ralph-nader-int...
Feb 16, 2020 — On the call, Nader laid out a strategy for attacking Trump that he ... Now, if Nancy Pelosi doesn't do that, Trump will go all over the ...

Democracy Now! - Pelosi Adds Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Trump ...

https://ne-np.facebook.com › posts

In a scathing review of President Joe Biden's first year in office, Ralph Nader calls Biden a "corporate socialist" unable to sell his own legislative agenda.

Ol' Ralph is long past relevant.

Sorry.
 
Impeachment is more of a political show trial than a criminal trial.

Maybe wasn’t intended to be that way by the people who wrote the Constitution, but that’s how it has ended up.
 
<sigh> Ralph Nader :(. The one person responsible for splitting the vote causing the Iraq War. He is one narcisicistic mother****er. And now, like a bunch of other chuckle-heads, he's trying to remain relevant by attacking the party in power. Was he not around during the Clinton impeachment hearings? That wasn't over foreign election interference, it was about a blow job and the Republicans milked it for everything they could.

It's amazing when trump voters - when they see the Democrats doing something political, they think the Democrats are the only ones who do it.

Your posts reflect someone's judgement and recollection of history being way out of whack, my friend.
 
Ralph Nader is a very smart individual and a lawyer ........ Nader is a straight talker and he does not buy in to
the status quo politics of the democratic party. The USA needs change not status quo. Nader would have been an excellent straight talking president. Damn right.
 
Last edited:
Not sure what Nader would want out of this. Republican senators said they would vote to acquit, on a technicality, no less, before the trial even began.

Pleased to see that he is still alive. Thank him for helping Bush win in 2000 for me.
The Electoral College and the Supreme Court put GW Bush in office the voters did not do it...... GW lost the popular vote. No Nader did not do it.
 

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats



Ralph Nader on Bloomberg, Bernie, and the Rot Within the DNC

https://theintercept.com › 2020/02/16 › ralph-nader-int...
Feb 16, 2020 — On the call, Nader laid out a strategy for attacking Trump that he ... Now, if Nancy Pelosi doesn't do that, Trump will go all over the ...

Democracy Now! - Pelosi Adds Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Trump ...

https://ne-np.facebook.com › posts

In a scathing review of President Joe Biden's first year in office, Ralph Nader calls Biden a "corporate socialist" unable to sell his own legislative agenda.


Even if Nader is correct, I have a hard time listening to him about anything anymore.

He gave this country George W. Bush by running in 2000. Gore would have won the election by at least 2% - 3% if not for Nader. And this country has been in rapid decline ever since.
 
AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about, for example, what Pence would have had to say, Pence a longtime, obviously, ally of President Trump, defender almost to the end, until he decided to be there to ensure the count of — the final count of the Electoral College. One of the things that the House managers showed was the timeline. I mean, maybe you can argue Trump, in his speech that day, when he said “fight,” that doesn’t mean actually physically kill a police officer. But they show the timeline, for example, having to do with Pence, that President Trump called Senator Tuberville at the moment when Pence was just taken out, evacuated, and Tuberville said, “I can’t talk to you,” to the president. “Pence has just been evacuated.” And it was after that that Trump issued yet another tweet against Pence, and the rioters — I don’t know if you would call them domestic terrorists; would you, Ralph? — were chanting “Hang Mike Pence!”

RALPH NADER: Well, if you had Pence on the stand, you would start with an impeachable statement by Trump in 2019. No other president has dared say what Trump said then. He said, “With Article II, I can do whatever I want as president.” “With Article II, I can do whatever I want as president.” And he spent four years proving that that was the case, with Vice President Pence.

So, you basically have Pence, who doesn’t like to be seen as a lawless executive branch vice president, comment on all that you have just described in terms of a law-and-order framework. And he submitted to Trump every day until that last day, when he said, “I’m sorry, Mr. President, I have to obey the Constitution and go down to the Senate and formally supervise the counting of the Electoral College votes as accurate for President-elect Biden.” And so he broke with him. And Trump attacked him.

And that’s powerful testimony. You can’t reproduce that testimony with videotapes. You can’t reproduce the testimony of Raffensperger and others. The situation in Georgia was really thuggishly detailed. It wasn’t just a phone call. NPR had a good exposé on that. He actually had his people threaten various electoral officials in Fulton County, not just a phone call and threatening Raffensperger with criminal prosecution.

AMY GOODMAN: And you had a U.S. attorney forced out.

RALPH NADER: Pardon?

AMY GOODMAN: You had a U.S. attorney forced out in Georgia.

RALPH NADER: Yes, yes. So there’s a lot there to uncover. You can’t do that by videotape. You have to do it by live testimony. I mean, trial lawyers say, “A trial without witnesses, are you kidding?” And why didn’t they call the witnesses? Because Nancy Pelosi wants to get this over with, and she doesn’t believe anything will change the minds of enough Republican senators.

I disagree. First of all, it’s not just for the Republican senators you have a full trial with a full hand of impeachable offenses. It’s for the American people. It’s for public education. It’s for the historic record. And it’s for whatever use subsequent criminal prosecutions of Trump that are pending in New York, Georgia and the District of Columbia may be able to apply. So, it’s a very narrow approach, and, unfortunately, the capability of lead manager Jamie Raskin was not fully displayed, because he didn’t have a full hand.

AMY GOODMAN: So, you have the prosecution, possibly, of Trump by the Fulton County DA. She is now speaking out, empaneling a grand jury.

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats

 
Even if Nader is correct, I have a hard time listening to him about anything.

He gave this country George W. Bush by running in 2000. Gore would have won the election by at least 2% - 3% if not for Nader. And this country has been in rapid decline ever since.
Gore ran a terrible campaign, GW ran a worse campaign but had tons of money, voter suppression and lies beyond reality aka Bush misleads and blaming Nader was easier than admitting that Gore ran a terrible campaign. There is no hard evidence that Nader was the reason Gore lost. Gore did not think GW could win.

The electoral college put GW in office just as the Electoral College put Trump into office.....

Where did all of the voters go? Too many forgot to vote. And too many did not expect GW to win he was a terrible candidate. Just as no one thought Trump would win.
 
Gore ran a terrible campaign, GW ran a worse campaign but had tons of money, voter suppression and lies beyond reality aka Bush misleads and blaming Nader was easier than admitting that Gore ran a terrible campaign. There is no hard evidence that Nader was the reason Gore lost. Gore did not think GW could win.

The electoral college put GW in office just as the Electoral College put Trump into office.....

Where did all of the voters go? Too many forgot to vote. And too many did not expect GW to win he was a terrible candidate. Just as no one thought Trump would win.

I guess I just don't care if Gore ran a terrible campaign. The race was razor close the last 3 months after the conventions. Gore never thought he was definitely going to win. In fact, a lot of people assumed Bush was going to win because of Clinton's scandal with Lewinsky.

Nader certainly didn't help with the get-out-the vote problem. All I remember about Nader in 2000 is him constantly saying there was no difference between Bush and Gore, that the Republicans and Democrats are equally corrupt. Just total bullshit.

I believe Nader got over 60,000 votes in FL, which Bush won by a mere 500 votes. Yes, Nader cost Gore both FL and the election.

Nader is a smart man who has done a lot of good for this country, in terms of consumer protection laws. He was more responsible for seat belts in cars than anybody in this country. However, he really miscalculated in 2000.
 
Bottom line = all voters must vote no matter how shitty anti american ALEC GOP and their campaign ads
make a campaign. Their objective is to drive voters insane which in turn drives them away from voting.

Every election every voter must vote either at the polls or by mail. WE the people are battling:

GOP anti American voter fraud
GOP anti American voter suppression
GOP anti American massive high dollar misinformation campaigns
GOP anti American Very Ridgid Right Wing agenda http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/al...te-special-interests-state-legislatures#Voter,
GOP anti American tightly controlled candidate selection/campaign management http://www.motherjones.com/politics...candidate-training-recruiting-aegis-strategic
 
Last edited:
Bottom line = all voters must vote no matter how shitty anti american ALEC GOP and their campaign ads
make a campaign. Their objective is to drive voters insane which in turn drives them away from voting.

Every election every voter must vote either at the polls or by mail. WE the people are battling:

GOP anti American voter fraud
GOP anti American voter suppression
GOP anti American massive high dollar misinformation campaigns
GOP anti American Very Ridgid Right Wing agenda http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/al...te-special-interests-state-legislatures#Voter,
GOP anti American tightly controlled candidate selection/campaign management http://www.motherjones.com/politics...candidate-training-recruiting-aegis-strategic
And the GOP anti American war on:

Public Education = handing over to private industry = huge profits

Medicare Insurance = handing over to private industry = huge profits

Medicaid Insurance = handing over to private industry = huge profits

Social Security Insurance = handing over to private industry = huge profits
 
Back on topic .......

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats



Ralph Nader on Bloomberg, Bernie, and the Rot Within the DNC

https://theintercept.com › 2020/02/16 › ralph-nader-int...
Feb 16, 2020 — On the call, Nader laid out a strategy for attacking Trump that he ... Now, if Nancy Pelosi doesn't do that, Trump will go all over the ...

Democracy Now! - Pelosi Adds Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Trump ...

https://ne-np.facebook.com › posts

In a scathing review of President Joe Biden's first year in office, Ralph Nader calls Biden a "corporate socialist" unable to sell his own legislative agenda.

Quote Reply
Report
 
Back on topic .......

Where Are the Witnesses? Ralph Nader Says Democrats



Ralph Nader on Bloomberg, Bernie, and the Rot Within the DNC

https://theintercept.com › 2020/02/16 › ralph-nader-int...
Feb 16, 2020 — On the call, Nader laid out a strategy for attacking Trump that he ... Now, if Nancy Pelosi doesn't do that, Trump will go all over the ...

Democracy Now! - Pelosi Adds Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Trump ...

https://ne-np.facebook.com › posts

In a scathing review of President Joe Biden's first year in office, Ralph Nader calls Biden a "corporate socialist" unable to sell his own legislative agenda.

Quote Reply
Report

Perhaps Nader is not aware that Trump got off on a technicality.

I appreciate his optimism that witnesses would show up, but I think he's dreaming.
 
The Electoral College and the Supreme Court put GW Bush in office the voters did not do it...... GW lost the popular vote. No Nader did not do it.
It was definitely nader. He took away votes that would have gone to gore

1645990038886.png
 

LAST FALL, the third most powerful figure in the U.S. government, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, had a phone call with a man who is undoubtedly one of the most hated people among her base of Democratic Party supporters: the famed consumer advocate and former independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader.

Their phone call took place as the Democrats were preparing to launch a narrowly focused impeachment case against Donald Trump. On the call, Nader laid out a strategy for attacking Trump that he believed could have resulted in his actual removal from office.

Nader, who has spent his life working to implement a wide range of consumer and environmental protections, argued that it would be a mistake to focus solely on the Ukraine phone call.

Instead, Nader suggested that Pelosi orchestrate a public prosecution of Trump’s crimes against ordinary Americans — what he called “kitchen table issues.” Nader beseeched Pelosi to go after Trump on issues far more pressing than Ukraine to millions of Americans, regardless of their political affiliation.

He suggested subpoenaing witnesses who could testify to Trump’s “destruction of life-saving consumer protections, environmental protections, workplace safety protections, in his destruction of social safety net protections for children.” Pelosi, Nader says, did not take any of his advice.
 
Not all of them!
I voted for Nader and would not have voted for Gore.
I also voted for Nader. Gore was coming off as another Bill Clinton not as the fire and brimstone voice as a democratic senator. Nader would have been a breath of fresh air which I assume the DNC was uncomfortable with.......

So many voters piss and moan about capitol hill yet they keep sending back the folks who do not make things better. More of the same ole shit.
 
Back
Top Bottom