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Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it

trouble13

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You have failed in this debate

Think about the implications of declassifying things in a president's mind without record for the next commander in chief to know what has happened

You will have the current "foremost authority" of classification knowing less than an ordinary citizen who happened to be president in the past.

Apparently, you do not want to give Biden the power of foremost authority which comes with having the knowledge of the classification status of his government's documents.
Biden has all the same powers as Trump had when he was our POTUS
 

pamak

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I think you misread what I said. Drug dealers try to argue otherwise in court.

I think you misread the other poster's claim.

When we are talking about possession, we are talking about legal possession. Just because you have stuff in your house, it does not mean that you have legal ownership of them.
 

BlueTex

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Is this your acknowledgement that they can tell us enough information about something that we know what we are talking about, while being capable of protecting national secrets? Are you ready to concede that or are you gonna keep promoting the farce of national security being at risk or the integrity of the investigation is.

The is one of the reasons people don't trust the FBI/DOJ

They are court ordered to release a soecific affidavit. They argue it can be released in it's entirety due to sensitive information. Which is a reasonable position that they routinely abuse.

They use that excuse to redact almost the entire document. They claim they redacted only the things that jeaporidize the investigation. They then turn around and leak what we are suppose to believe is redacted information to the press.

They control what we see and the context it's presented to us. No rational persons going to blindly trust that process.

So is that a none? You didn't learn shit, just the category of information alleged to have been recovered.
 

BlueTex

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I expect a clear answer and not a paragraph which reads as an attempt to avoid answering it.


Exactly... Hell of a lot of words just to say nothing..
 

LostInSeattle

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There is a big gaping hole in what your saying.
Which is?
The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done.
Uh huh. Give me an example of where the President would need to declassify something "in real time."
He is given executive privilege that allows him to make decisions in real time.
Such decision making has nothing to do with "executive privilege" which is limited to the privacy of certain communications and information by the President and certain other members of the executive branch. It has zero to do with declassification. Also, you seem to have missed the point entirely that the bureaucratic procedures are not in fact circles as you seem to think but rather safeguards of the integrity of the nation's secrets.
What your suggesting is more perilous to the nation than what Trump is accused of.
And do tell how a deliberate process for declassification is "more perilous" to the nation than an ex-President storing TS/SCI documents in a room next to a pool at a golf resort. I'm all ears.
 

pamak

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Biden has all the same powers as Trump had when he was our POTUS

No, he is not!

The implication of your position is that Biden does not have the power to know the classification status of the documents which Trump declassified in his head. Only Trump has the power of such knowledge. So, the current foremost authority has inaccurate classification info for these documents than the current, ordinary citizen Trump.
 

trouble13

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I will repeat his question"



I expect a clear answer and not a paragraph which reads as an attempt to avoid answering it.
I did answer his question but I will give you the short answer.

I did not learn any secret from the DOJ sourced rumour. The fact that we didn't reinforces the point I was making in the post he was responding to.
 

BlueTex

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I'm looking forward to the government to stop making accusations by innuendo and put forward an actual case against him. Once they do, you may get your wish.

Perhaps he should stop obstructing the investigation...
 

pamak

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I did answer his question but I will give you the short answer.

I did not learn any secret from the DOJ sourced rumour. The fact that we didn't reinforces the point I was making in the post he was responding to.

The fact that you did not learn any secret reinforces the point that the leak did not harm national security.
And by the way, the fact that you do not know that the leak came from the DOJ reinforces the point that you are ready to make assumptions in order to attack the FBI and the DOJ. Recall, that it was Trump and his lawyers who started leaking info about the Mar-a-Lago raid. And even his supporters wanted a detailed inventory, LOL
 
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Deuce

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Biden has all the same powers as Trump had when he was our POTUS
Which is why Trump is guilty. Biden reclassified all of the documents the second he swore in, and he doesn’t have to make this claim in a court of law.
 

MTAtech

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I'm looking forward to the government to stop making accusations by innuendo and put forward an actual case against him. Once they do, you may get your wish.
Me too. I‘m looking forward to the FBI dusting those folders, including the ones in Trump’s desk, for fingerprints and seeing who handled these classified documents.
 

MTAtech

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The idea that a president can declassify documents in his head is patently absurd.

The president can order documents to be declassified and someone else has to exercise the technical steps to declassify them. There is zero evidence any such order was given, nor performed.
 

CLAX1911

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MAL is a public access country club. That means:
  • Members
  • Members Guests
  • Maintenance Staff
  • Serving Staff
  • FPOTUS own lawyers who had neither clearance or need to know
  • Heck, they hire foreign workers at MAL

WW
Again who had access to this documents write a list please names professions.

I would say the ability to access from people who don't have clearance hands down indicates that they're not classified. And they weren't used for espionage either so I think this whole thing about Mar alago is dead in the water.

But you guys can go on believing. This conversation is boring nobody here has anything new or insightful to say about it at all it's just to go get Trump we're going to get him he's the Boogeyman and that was funny in 2015 now it's just boring.

So not commenting on the subject anymore it's stupid you're getting nowhere and it will just have to wait and see what happens.

My money is on nothing.
 

MTAtech

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Again who had access to this documents write a list please names professions.

I would say the ability to access from people who don't have clearance hands down indicates that they're not classified. And they weren't used for espionage either so I think this whole thing about Mar alago is dead in the water.

But you guys can go on believing. This conversation is boring nobody here has anything new or insightful to say about it at all it's just to go get Trump we're going to get him he's the Boogeyman and that was funny in 2015 now it's just boring.

So not commenting on the subject anymore it's stupid you're getting nowhere and it will just have to wait and see what happens.

My money is on nothing.
What? The ability of unauthorized people accessing these documents means the documents were not classified? No, it means the documents were stored in a way contrary to how secret documents are supposed to be stored.

You might as well argue that if someone was able to take someone else’s money it means that money wasn’t stolen, but was a gift.

Both are indications that laws were broken.
 

pamak

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Again who had access to this documents write a list please names professions.

I would say the ability to access from people who don't have clearance hands down indicates that they're not classified. And they weren't used for espionage either so I think this whole thing about Mar alago is dead in the water.

But you guys can go on believing. This conversation is boring nobody here has anything new or insightful to say about it at all it's just to go get Trump we're going to get him he's the Boogeyman and that was funny in 2015 now it's just boring.

So not commenting on the subject anymore it's stupid you're getting nowhere and it will just have to wait and see what happens.

My money is on nothing.

He gave you enough information to establish the claim that the location was not secure.

The ability to access from people who don't have clearance came as a result of Trump's decision to store the documents in an unsafe place.

The conversation obviously was not boring to you because you spend a lot of time and effort to defend Trump's actions.

Not commenting on the subject is the best response of people who cannot find reasonable arguments to defend their points.
 

jpn

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The idea that a president can declassify documents in his head is patently absurd.
You can say that again.

I'm really getting to like the Special Master Trump signed off on:

Special Master Asks Trump To Put His Money Where His Mouth Is
U.S. District Judge Raymond Dearie for the Eastern District of New York ordered Trump to:
  • present a list of claims to federal prosecutors about which records he sees as subject to attorney client or executive privilege,
  • which of the seized materials he’s contending were his presidential records,
  • and to state, for the record, whether the FBI planted any evidence at Mar-a-Lago.
With all of Trump’s puffery, it’s an attempt from Dearie to treat the former President like any typical plaintiff in a civil case. The burden of proof lies on the plaintiff to prove the claims that he or she makes, as Dearie himself emphasized at a Tuesday hearing in the matter.​
 

Atomic Kid

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I'm curious...exactly what IS the process a President must go through to declassify stuff?
You could easily find out if what it is you truly cared to. But we all know all you're doing looking is providing more lip service for your Orange God.
 

CLAX1911

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What? The ability of unauthorized people accessing these documents means the documents were not classified? No, it means the documents were stored in a way contrary to how secret documents are supposed to be stored.

You might as well argue that if someone was able to take someone else’s money it means that money wasn’t stolen, but was a gift.

Both are indications that laws were broken.
Again whatever you have to believe there's no point in arguing about it what's going to happen will happen you have no insight.
 

CLAX1911

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He gave you enough information to establish the claim that the location was not secure.

The ability to access from people who don't have clearance came as a result of Trump's decision to store the documents in an unsafe place.

The conversation obviously was not boring to you because you spend a lot of time and effort to defend Trump's actions.

Not commenting on the subject is the best response of people who cannot find reasonable arguments to defend their points.
There's no point in talking about this anymore you have no insight you don't know anything more than anyone else.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens my money is on nothing
 

mike2810

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You raise an interesting point that I have been wondering about.

According to Trump WH staff packed those boxes. If there was documents in there that should not of been, did anyone inform Trump that what he was taking would be a problem? Maybe they did, I don't know. It's a part of the story that's missing from the public record.

Are you suggesting someone other than Trump put some of the files in his desk at MAL? If so, then so much for the idea that MAL was secure.
Trump has admitted the documents were found at MAL.
 

Atomic Kid

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I'm looking forward to the government to stop making accusations by innuendo and put forward an actual case against him. Once they do, you may get your wish.
Careful what you wish for. That would mean the government filing an indictment against Mr. Trump. Which I'm sure his lawyers know is going to be forthcoming. Which it would appear why it is they doing their litigious best to delay it
 

Atomic Kid

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There is a big gaping hole in what your saying. The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done. He is given executive privilege that allows him to make decisions in real time. What your suggesting is more perilous to the nation than what Trump is accused of.
All you are doing is chasing your own tail with this senseless line of argument. The 11th Circuit ruling on the DOJ appeal stated quite clearly that this argument that Trump as President may have declassified these documents is really nothing more just a "red herring". The 11th said even if it were true that Trump declassified the documents, and there is no evidence that it is true, that would still do nothing to change the content of those documents. If they were national defense information before, they would still be national defense information afterwards. And the 11th also it didn't understand how Mr. Trump would have any legal standing whatsoever to claim propriety over them, much less what the reason would be for why he wants to retain them.
 
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