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Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it

trouble13

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You are conflating two separate issues: the authority to declassify and the requirement to go through a formal process. As I understand it, from everything that's been posted, as the CIC the President has the authority to declassify anything. However,here's nothing I have read that exempts him/her from going through the formal process. The EO applied to Trump, unless you have evidence that he amended the EO to say that the Prez can secretly, without any process or notification, declassify anything at any time.

As others have pointed out, it makes zero sense to imagine that it's possible to declassify something secretly. If you don't tell anyone, if the relevant agencies are not notified, how is the secret in question declassified? The relevant definition from Oxford for the term, "classified" reads: (of information or documents) designated as officially secret and to which only authorized people may have access. The President cannot declassify something just for him/herself. They cannot declassify a single copy of something.

I would ask whether you really want as President someone who doesn't understand not just the process but the necessity for the process of declassifying. A President is not a dictator; they have to be a team player. One reason to have a process is so that the proposal to declassify something allows agencies to weigh in; there may exist ramifications to a declassification that the President has not considered and might want to be aware of. This is how adults operate in a complex world. It's not a "I imagined it to be declassified and it magically was". Everything has consequences and responsible actors want to know to what those are before deciding how to proceed.
There is a big gaping hole in what your saying. The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done. He is given executive privilege that allows him to make decisions in real time. What your suggesting is more perilous to the nation than what Trump is accused of.
 

mike2810

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Yet it didn't stop the DOJ from leaking that the documents in question pertained to nuclear secrets. The DOJ think they are clever and can get away with talking out if both sides of their mouth but the only thing they are doing is cratering their credibility.
Why are you having a problem with the DOJ " leaking that the documents in question pertained to nuclear secrets"? Trump said he "declassified" all the documents.
The more DJT talks the less creditable he becomes and the bigger the hole he is digging himself.

/sarcasm on
The DOJ may be talking out of both sides of their mouth. That is much better than Donald talking out of his ass. :giggle:
 

mike2810

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There is a big gaping hole in what your saying. The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done. He is given executive privilege that allows him to make decisions in real time. What your suggesting is more perilous to the nation than what Trump is accused of.

What you seem to be saying is Trump is incapable of directing and managing his staff. No one is suggesting Trump had to stamp and record the declassification himself.

Explain why Trump seemed to wait to the last bit of time in office to "declassify" the documents?
 

Galactic Spin

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There is a big gaping hole in what your saying. The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done. He is given executive privilege that allows him to make decisions in real time. What your suggesting is more perilous to the nation than what Trump is accused of.
Neat! But can Trump claim that he declassified documents 18 months ago because he thought it at the time? Yes or no?
 

trouble13

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Can't wait for the defense's argument of... "Nuh uh".
I'm looking forward to the government to stop making accusations by innuendo and put forward an actual case against him. Once they do, you may get your wish.
 

DCCougar

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It's equally relevant to look at when he came into possession of the documents.
Arguably, he never "came into possession" of those Top Secret documents. They were never "his" to possess.
 

trouble13

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It's really not relevant when he came into the possession of the documents. All the facts under investigation happened after he was just Donnie, retired guy living in Florida.

Once the clock ticked noon in January 20th, 2021, Biden became POTUS and Donnie had the same 'right' you do to view and possess classified/NDI documents, which is none. He had the same right to retain those documents, distribute them to whoever, frame them and use them as decorations, which is none. When the grand jury demanded their return, he had the same obligation you do to return them, ALL of them.
I mostly agree with you here. I am very curious why Trump believes he is entitled to keep the things the government asked him to return.
 

tacomancer

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Who is the potus required to notify when he declassifies a document and under which statute would I find this requirement?
The person that the president designates to perform the declassification procedure for whatever instance.
 

DCCougar

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The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done.
Of course not. BUT he's got to have an aide make a record of what he did or what needs to be done. This is the U.S. government, not the crime family Trump Org.
 

DCCougar

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Why are you having a problem with the DOJ " leaking that the documents in question pertained to nuclear secrets"?
Yeah, the DOJ has learned that it's highly asymetric to simply let Trump drive a false narrative without saying anything about the seriousness or factual underpinnings of the investigation into Trump's malfeasance. So we get a shot of all the Top Secret documents. And Garland comes out and gives a speech about how the DOJ is going to follow the facts and the law without fear or favor.
 

trouble13

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What nuclear secret did you learn?
Is this your acknowledgement that they can tell us enough information about something that we know what we are talking about, while being capable of protecting national secrets? Are you ready to concede that or are you gonna keep promoting the farce of national security being at risk or the integrity of the investigation is.

The is one of the reasons people don't trust the FBI/DOJ

They are court ordered to release a soecific affidavit. They argue it can be released in it's entirety due to sensitive information. Which is a reasonable position that they routinely abuse.

They use that excuse to redact almost the entire document. They claim they redacted only the things that jeaporidize the investigation. They then turn around and leak what we are suppose to believe is redacted information to the press.

They control what we see and the context it's presented to us. No rational persons going to blindly trust that process.
 

trouble13

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Why are you having a problem with the DOJ " leaking that the documents in question pertained to nuclear secrets"? Trump said he "declassified" all the documents.
The more DJT talks the less creditable he becomes and the bigger the hole he is digging himself.

/sarcasm on
The DOJ may be talking out of both sides of their mouth. That is much better than Donald talking out of his ass. :giggle:
My beef isn't with what was leaked. My beef is that it was leaked after they argued that we could not know any more than we know because it would put their case in jeapordy. They lied.

P.S. kudos on your Trump dig. It was cute 😆
 

trouble13

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What you seem to be saying is Trump is incapable of directing and managing his staff. No one is suggesting Trump had to stamp and record the declassification himself.

Explain why Trump seemed to wait to the last bit of time in office to "declassify" the documents?
You raise an interesting point that I have been wondering about.

According to Trump WH staff packed those boxes. If there was documents in there that should not of been, did anyone inform Trump that what he was taking would be a problem? Maybe they did, I don't know. It's a part of the story that's missing from the public record.
 

pamak

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Is this your acknowledgement that they can tell us enough information about something that we know what we are talking about, while being capable of protecting national secrets? Are you ready to concede that or are you gonna keep promoting the farce of national security being at risk or the integrity of the investigation is.

The is one of the reasons people don't trust the FBI/DOJ

They are court ordered to release a soecific affidavit. They argue it can be released in it's entirety due to sensitive information. Which is a reasonable position that they routinely abuse.

They use that excuse to redact almost the entire document. They claim they redacted only the things that jeaporidize the investigation. They then turn around and leak what we are suppose to believe is redacted information to the press.

They control what we see and the context it's presented to us. No rational persons going to blindly trust that process.

You did not answer his question.

What nuclear secret did you learn?

We all know that nuclear-related classified documents exist. So, the fact that you heard that such documents have been seized from Mar-a-Lago and are now secured does not reveal anything that damages national security. If you think it does, you are free to explain how.

By contrast, I and every reasonable person, jury or court in general, understands very easily how national security is damaged by the fact that nuclear-related documents were kept in a place inappropriate for storing such highly sensitive information. If you want clarifications for the latter, ask. I assume that even you are capable of realizing the damage of inappropriate storage of such information.
 
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pamak

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I think anything that was in his home was in his possession

Drug dealers would love to see your claim being accepted in courts.
We are talking about LEGAL possession here.
 

trouble13

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The person that the president designates to perform the declassification procedure for whatever instance.
This is an old debate that has already been hashed out.

Think about the implications of what you are saying.

Recently Biden went on 60 minutes and changed a long standing policy we have had with Tiwan on National TV.

By your standard what is there to stop a republican dominated congress from impeaching and removing Biden from office after they determined that he leaked classified information to the world. Then after he is removed, they assign a special prosecutor and indict him.

We give the potus certain powers for good reason.
 

Plasmaball

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make all the personal comments you need to I'll really try hard to give a shit.


the burden of proof is on you to show that he didn't.
The 11th says otherwise

You<the 11th
 

trouble13

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Of course not. BUT he's got to have an aide make a record of what he did or what needs to be done. This is the U.S. government, not the crime family Trump Org.
Post #636 covers why what your saying is impractical
 

pamak

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This is an old debate that has already been hashed out.

Think about the implications of what you are saying.

Recently Biden went on 60 minutes and changed a long standing policy we have had with Tiwan on National TV.

By your standard what is there to stop a republican dominated congress from impeaching and removing Biden from office after they determined that he leaked classified information to the world. Then after he is removed, they assign a special prosecutor and indict him.

We give the potus certain powers for good reason.

You have failed in this debate

Think about the implications of declassifying things in a president's mind without record for the next commander in chief to know what has happened

You will have the current "foremost authority" of classification knowing less than an ordinary citizen who happened to be president in the past.

Apparently, you do not want to give Biden the power of foremost authority which comes with having the knowledge of the classification status of his government's documents.
 

trouble13

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You did not answer his question.



We all know that nuclear-related classified documents exist. So, the fact that you heard that such documents have been seized from Mar-a-Lago and are now secured does not reveal anything that damages national security. If you think it does, you are free to explain how.

By contrast, I and every reasonable person, jury or court in general, understands very easily how national security is damaged by the fact that nuclear-related documents were kept in a place inappropriate for storing such highly sensitive information. If you want clarifications for the latter, ask. I assume that even you are capable of realizing the damage of inappropriate storage of such information.
What is it that you think I did not address?
 

trouble13

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Drug dealers would love to see your claim being accepted in courts.
We are talking about LEGAL possession here.
I think you misread what I said. Drug dealers try to argue otherwise in court.
 

year2late

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There is a big gaping hole in what your saying. The president does not always have the luxury of having the time to go through the bureaucratic circles to get things done. He is given executive privilege that allows him to make decisions in real time. What your suggesting is more perilous to the nation than what Trump is accused of.
Well perhaps between schmoozing and rounds of golf, he could have found the time.
 
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