Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
Do you wish to pay people to do useless things? Pay them well, middle class jobs, or pay then the same for useful work?
And now you are not even addressing all the middle-class jobs that solar has created and could continue to create.
Unless you want to outsource them to China. Maybe that is what you want. :shrug:
This isn't the first time some liberals have sided with an enemy trying to destroy America and it won't be the last. The Chinese subsidized solar panels flooded the American market and killed off a slew of American enterprises including the AMONIX PLANT IN NORTH LAS VEGAS.
China Killing American Jobs by flooding the market with Cheap Solar Panels.
There is not reason why this shouldn't be totally and completely bi-partisan, but just like how that idiotic asshole Dean Heller cheered just to crow in the face of the opposition, I see some liberals now demanding that the Chinese be allowed to kill more American jobs just because they hate Trump.
And now you turn to blatant racism. Beautiful. It's like you're trying to do everything except give a reasonable refutation to my points. :roll:
And what that "helpful reminder" makes clear is the exorbitant cost of solar compared to fossil fuels.
Completely agree with the first half, we fundamentally agree I just took issue with your comment about a tariff causing more jobs to be outsourced because it would be the inverse effect in that it would help make the US more competitive. I don't feel the cost the rest of society would be impacted by it would justify the amount of jobs (If any) gained.
What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?
You do not understand quite a bit, how does it serve US interests to demand power companies by Chinese solar panels or give tax rebates to people who buy Chinese?
Drop all goverment demands, credits and subsidies and solar DIES with or without tariffs.
What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?
I actually disagree, I think a case could be made for solar simply based on dollars.Drop all goverment demands, credits and subsidies and solar DIES with or without tariffs.
I actually disagree, I think a case could be made for solar simply based on dollars.
Lets say a $20K installed system like this one,
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1891...h-solaredge-and-24-solarworld-295-watt-panels
at $13k with $7k for the install, produces 966 Kwh per month.
Between the actual electricity rate, fees and taxes, most people pay about $.10 per Kwh.
The system could generate $96 a month in savings, or $1152 per year.
An $1152 a year return on a $20K investment is roughly a 5.7% rate of return.
My current savings is not generating a 5.7% return.
Now if the current 30% tax credit were applied, the system cost would be $14 K,
and the rate of return would be 8.2%.
These are numbers that make home solar look fairly attractive.
FYI, this has nothing to do with AGW, or CO2, simply personal savings.
Switching all of your light bulbs out to LED will have a bigger bang for the buck, but the savings would be a different order of magnitude.
No, the recent move by Trump was to impose a 30% Tariff on Chinese panels,It isn't a 30% tax credit, it is a 30% tax increase.
Just to be clear, as a conservative, you do want the government to intervene with economic tools to steer the market instead of letting it run free?
Just to be clear, I want government to get the hell out of telling people how to power their houses, businesses, and industries. Then let the Chinese flood the market. No one will buy their crap unless they are giving it away.
You want the government out of the economy, yet you support tariffs. You cannot have it both ways. So which will it be?
No tariffs as long as no one is is favored by the government, to tax credit, no subsidies, no mandates
Just to be clear, I want government to get the hell out of telling people how to power their houses, businesses, and industries. Then let the Chinese flood the market. No one will buy their crap unless they are giving it away.
You are correct, if a private US company used it's reserve funds to artificially make it's products cheaper, to pushT It's basically predatory pricing, but it's legal because China is a sovereign country.
Now is as good a time as any for this helpful reminder:
Keep in mind that this is Forbes, which has a decidedly capitalist slant.
In 2016, 55 percent, or 1.1 million, of these employees worked in traditional coal, oil,
and gas, while almost 800,000 workers were employed in low carbon emission generation
technologies, including renewables, nuclear, and advanced/low emission natural gas. Just under
374,000 individuals work, in whole or in part, for solar firms, with more than 260,000 of those
employees spending the majority of their time on solar. There are an additional 102,000 workers
employed at wind firms across the nation.
It mentions it will increase prices for panels thereby reducing demand.
There are a lot of industries in the US that exist where a basic component is made in China, shipped to the US, and sales persons/installation professionals, repairmen etc in the US make a substantial % of the overall profit in that industry.
If the price of panels goes and it results in less people purchasing panels then those other parts of the supply chain suffer. Will the jobs created those tariffs offset the loss of jobs due to lower demand?
I don't know, I don't follow the solar panel sector but manufacturing solar panels is only one piece of the industry.
It is amazing that these so-call more educated liberals cannot see simple truths.
What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?
Also consider that China is the leader in solar, and Europe also up there, and we have oil company dick sucking republicans impeding anything green that we don't have the capabilities that they have in China and Europe. OUr companies likely need that. Do we even have any solar panel manufacturing here?
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