• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump Flips on $5 Billion Boarder Wall Price

veritas1 said:
The wall is a bargain at $25 billion. Only stupid people don't understand this. Illegal aliens cost the country anywhere between $2 billion and $19 billion yearly according to GAO studies. The wall will save us many billions far into the future.
Click to expand...

Well which is it: $25 billion, $5 billion, $1.6 billion? He keeps asking for money but no plan on how it's going to be used or timelines for phases of funding is going to be acquired piecemeal. Is that GAO data for illegal immigrants in general, or specifically those who crossed the border?
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
It is a real answer. The wall is a loser. Admit it.
Click to expand...
No, it's a political issue, nothing more. Anyone who thinks a physical barrier shouldn't be part of our border security is nuts.
 
veritas1 said:
Israel's southern border with Egypt. Nobody gets through except legally. We can't get down to 100% effectiveness but we can get close enough that the problem will be all but eliminated. What's obvious is that whatever we've been doing doesn't work. If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Click to expand...
It's part of a solution. Makes me question the real motives of those who oppose it.
 
veritas1 said:
Walls work. You know it. Everyone does. If they didn't, people would stop building them. Sure, a handful will get through. So what? Oh, and we can actually go after visa overstays AND build the wall. Go figure.
Click to expand...

They work if people are deterred by walls alone. If there's a financial interest in getting across then they get more creative. People smuggling is big business in Mexico for the coyotes, and its profitable enough to fund means of penetrating a wall or barriers as they've done with some of the tunnel networks in some parts of the US. What I find comical is the idea that once the wall is built the assumption is illegal immigration will end.
 
This is the way you properly deal with Trumpists.

When they threaten to throw a Trumper-tantrum to get their way, don't give in one bit to their demands, then put them on the spot to stand by the promises they made to their base, and watch them crumble under the pressure.
 
tres borrachos said:
They're hiding after spending 2 days humiliating themselves with posts about Flynn being entrapped by the FBI. The rest are at WalMart stocking up on adult diapers.
Click to expand...

Don't forget watching Hannity so they know today's excuses....

cg5ad57191217e4.jpg
 
veritas1 said:
What's obvious is that whatever we've been doing doesn't work. If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Click to expand...

Illegal border crossings have been decreasing for a decade without a wall. More Mexicans have migrated from the US to Mexico than vice versa since the recession. The reason we're having this discussion is because the majority of voters are easily frightened by the prospect of barbarians at our borders, and Donald Trump capitalized on this fact to get the votes of the xenophobes. At this point, abandoning the wall is no skin of Trump's hide because it has already served it's purpose: It got him elected. You are going to be in no more mortal danger and you are going to save no less money going forward without a wall than you would have had your tax dollars been wasted on one.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Well which is it: $25 billion, $5 billion, $1.6 billion? He keeps asking for money but no plan on how it's going to be used or timelines for phases of funding is going to be acquired piecemeal. Is that GAO data for illegal immigrants in general, or specifically those who crossed the border?
Click to expand...

The wall is estimated at $20-25 billion but even if it costs $30 or $40 billion, it's worth it. The GAO data is for all illegal aliens I believe. So, even if you cut it in half, you're saving billions per year. A midpoint would be about $5 billion. Also, if we were really interested in getting a handle on visa overstays, we could. That's the crux of the issue. The people in power don't want it solved.
 
lwf said:
Illegal border crossings have been decreasing for a decade without a wall. More Mexicans have migrated from the US to Mexico than vice versa since the recession. The reason we're having this discussion is because the majority of voters are easily frightened by the prospect of barbarians at our borders, and Donald Trump capitalized on this fact to get the votes of the xenophobes. At this point, abandoning the wall is no skin of Trump's hide because it has already served it's purpose: It got him elected. You are going to be in no more mortal danger going forward without a wall than you would have had your tax dollars been wasted on one.
Click to expand...

The tax dollars will not be wasted. Just because illegal immigration lessened during one period has nothing to do with what could happen in the future or the need for us to control our own borders. There is no predicting when the tide will turn and masses of people will start coming here again. BTW, if Trump only mentioned the wall to get elected, he wouldn't still be fighting for it. Oh, and the people of Tijuana have made their feelings about the migrants well known. Are they racists and xenophobes? That's such a phony argument.
 
Last edited:
veritas1 said:
Israel's southern border with Egypt. Nobody gets through except legally. We can't get down to 100% effectiveness but we can get close enough that the problem will be all but eliminated. What's obvious is that whatever we've been doing doesn't work. If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Click to expand...

The one along the southern border in the US would be significantly longer, so effectiveness depends on a bunch of variables. How the wall would be supported is not something this administration has gone into much detail.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
So it's not bi-partisan???? He completely caved to chuck and nancy.
Click to expand...

Apparently he did. Pelosi told him to go ahead and shut it down.............a little while later...out comes Sarah. Trump is have a really very very bad day in Trumpland. What with Flynn's sentencing - put on hold in case Flynn can "cooperate" a bit more and his Foundation is getting closed down. It has been reported that he's so cheap he took 7.00 out of it to pay a Boy Scout fee. You can't make this sh*t up.
 
veritas1 said:
The tax dollars will not be wasted. Just because illegal immigration lessened during one period has nothing to do with what could happen in the future or the need for us to control our own borders. There is no predicting when the tide will turn and masses of people will start coming here again. BTW, if Trump only mentioned the wall to get elected, he wouldn't still be fighting for it. Oh, and the people of Tijuana have made their feelings about the migrants well known. Are they racists and xenophobes? That's such a phony argument.
Click to expand...

The reason immigration has fallen is because of ICE. This means that ICE is working. Which means that the wall is unnecessary. ICE targets all illegal immigrants regardless of how they enter the country. Walls only target the 30% or so that try to cross at the borders, and can be defeated with a ladder.

Even if a wall were built, ICE agents would need to be staffed nearby to apprehend those that climb over. Those agents could be put there whether there is a wall or not. Why not just put the ICE agents there in the first place and forget about the time and expense of making it marginally harder for illegals to enter the country without having to grab one or two of the thousands of ladders stored on the Mexican side.
 
veritas1 said:
The wall is estimated at $20-25 billion but even if it costs $30 or $40 billion, it's worth it. The GAO data is for all illegal aliens I believe. So, even if you cut it in half, you're saving billions per year. A midpoint would be about $5 billion. Also, if we were really interested in getting a handle on visa overstays, we could. That's the crux of the issue. The people in power don't want it solved.
Click to expand...

The bigger question is whether you accomplish this by a strongly enforced e-verify process and dedicating more money toward border patrol staffing and technology which helps identify border crossers more effectively. A wall of this size would have to be supported for its entire useful life, and we won't know what the impact will be in how people make it in (i.e. smuggling through tunnels, bodies of water etc.).
 
veritas1 said:
The tax dollars will not be wasted. Just because illegal immigration lessened during one period has nothing to do with what could happen in the future or the need for us to control our own borders. There is no predicting when the tide will turn and masses of people will start coming here again. BTW, if Trump only mentioned the wall to get elected, he wouldn't still be fighting for it. Oh, and the people of Tijuana have made their feelings about the migrants well known. Are they racists and xenophobes? That's such a phony argument.
Click to expand...

Oh no, the tax dollars will be wasted. The Mexicans have.....ladders. Beauties from what I've seen. 40 footers, aluminum, sleek devils.

So unless you're planning on manning the wall, it ain't going to do squat...and if you're going to man it, those billion would pay for a lot of feet on the ground.


Look at it this way, according to many of Trump's top advisors, he's an idiot or a moron, take your pick. And the people who voted for him largely look up to Trump intellectually. Now ask yourself, are these really the people you want deciding what's best to do with billions of dollars?
 
Fletch said:
So you wanted him to fight and close down the government? The loser here is you who likely had 25 anti Trump threads in the can waiting for the shutdown that now wont happen. Now yo are going to have to find something else to whine about.
Click to expand...

No the loser is the country. The loser is the taxpayer who still has to put up with this crap. The loser is the border wall which you guys all wanted and thought was going to be as big and shiny as Trump Tower. His signature promise to you now is not going to happen. The wall will not be built. The Democrats have successfully fought the bully and showed him to be a coward.

But yes, hate me for pointing out the truth. It is a free country. :roll: #sorrynotsorry.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
No the loser is the country. The loser is the taxpayer who still has to put up with this crap. The loser is the border wall which you guys all wanted and thought was going to be as big and shiny as Trump Tower. His signature promise to you now is not going to happen. The wall will not be built. The Democrats have successfully fought the bully and showed him to be a coward.

But yes, hate me for pointing out the truth. It is a free country. :roll: #sorrynotsorry.
Click to expand...

Thats not truth, thats nonsense.
 
Moon said:
How could Trump have come out as a winner in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Well, you see, proposing that a 2000 mile long wall is going to stop people pretty well guarantees you're not going to be a winner, no matter what the outcome. HINT: Google "Ladder".

Then stating that putting solar panels on top is a good idea cements your position as a world class dumbass.
 
JustHanging said:
Well, you see, proposing that a 2000 mile long wall is going to stop people pretty well guarantees you're not going to be a winner, no matter what the outcome. HINT: Google "Ladder".

Then stating that putting solar panels on top is a good idea cements your position as a world class dumbass.
Click to expand...

It couldn't even protect Helm's Deep.
helmsdeep.jpg
 
JustHanging said:
Oh no, the tax dollars will be wasted. The Mexicans have.....ladders. Beauties from what I've seen. 40 footers, aluminum, sleek devils.

So unless you're planning on manning the wall, it ain't going to do squat...and if you're going to man it, those billion would pay for a lot of feet on the ground.


Look at it this way, according to many of Trump's top advisors, he's an idiot or a moron, take your pick. And the people who voted for him largely look up to Trump intellectually. Now ask yourself, are these really the people you want deciding what's best to do with billions of dollars?
Click to expand...

Thats really a moronic argument considering you are willing to allow people you dont know to decide whats the best to do with trillions of dollars.
 
Fletch said:
Thats really a moronic argument considering you are willing to allow people you dont know to decide whats the best to do with trillions of dollars.
Click to expand...

So uh, which member of the Trump Administration are you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom