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Trump doesn't actually want a wall

Can't refute speculation based on substance that wasn't offered. He said Trump doesn't really want The Wall. Why? Because he'd lose an issue? Is that it? That's like saying Obama didn't really want the ACA.

Not at all, because Obama was never the pitchman hypster flim-flam man that Trump clearly is
 
Not at all, because Obama was never the pitchman hypster flim-flam man that Trump clearly is

Yes. And the ACA provided people with important tangible results that served him even better than the act did when the act was merely an issue. The wall’s entire value to Trump is its issue value.
 
Once is plenty when you're waiting for something that supports his speculation and it never comes.
The only thing that occurred to me afterwards was that a viewer would have to have a certain mindset that made them predisposed to accept such a speculation as his and find it compelling.
So that's what I said.
So far, no one has offered anything that supports his speculation.
"Cuz I said so" isn't support.

He makes a reasoned argument about how much Trump actually wants the WALL when you consider that Trump could have had more WALL funding last year and turned it down because nobody would give him Achtung Miller's draconian Immigration policy to go along with it.

As for why many people do not want the Wall, that is simple. People don't want the wall because spending $25B for a 16th century solution to a 21st Century problem is flat STUPID. Thinking you have actually done anything more than make yourself less safe thinking you can "hide" from the world behind your wall is beyond obtuse, even beyond oblivious. There are only about a zillion better things we can do from an illegal immigration, border security and a National Security perspective with $25B than put up some unspecified wall of some unspecific length. Even the optics we leave the rest of the world with by building a Wall though entirely keeping with Donald Duck's warped view of the world are all BAD!

If Trump actually wanted his wall, he could have proposed one with specificity. He could have spent some money to show Congress EXACTLY what the heck he "thinks" he wants. The Executive proposes and the Legislature disposes. That is the way it works! Trump has not done that because he has no earthly idea what he wants with specificity and he does not care.
 
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I should think ian egregious waste of taxpayers money is less than moral.

To build a wall across the southern border would cost many Untold billions estimates are 25 billion and more maybe as much as 50 billion who knows thing is half the Visas overstays account for the illegals that number will go up so the cost-benefit just isn't there the better solution is high tech security which is a lot less expensive and just as effective

Facts are that more people are leaving the Border Patrol agency than are being hired, and they have cameras in areas that are not even functioning (NPR). So, a lot needs attention, not necessarily "a wall."
 
For lawd's sakes I never post a video more than a minute or two in length. This is really that big of a problem?

I think an accurate psychological profile eloquently explained is compelling.

Yeah, its a DEBATE forum. The purpose is to make a argument and then we debate it. Not just say heres a video I agree with. You can go post that in the youtube comments. Im interested in YOUR thoughts, not Kleins.
 
He makes a reasoned argument about how much Trump actually wants the WALL when you consider that Trump could have had more WALL funding last year and turned it down because nobody would give him Achtung Miller's draconian Immigration policy to go along with it.
Can you summarize what that reasoned argument is?

As for why many people do not want the Wall, that is simple. People don't want the wall because spending $25B for a 16th century solution to a 21st Century problem is flat STUPID. Thinking you have actually done anything more than make yourself less safe thinking you can "hide" from the world behind your wall is beyond obtuse, even beyond oblivious. There are only about a zillion better things we can do from an illegal immigration, border security and a National Security perspective with $25B than put up some unspecified wall of some unspecific length. Even the optics we leave the rest of the world with by building a Wall though entirely keeping with Donald Duck's warped view of the world are all BAD!


"Thinking you have actually done anything more than make yourself less safe thinking you can "hide" from the world behind your wall " probably sounded better before you wrote it. How would securing a border with a physical barrier make you less safe from illegal penetration of that border?
btw, there's already another thread on the pros and cons of a Wall. This thread isn't it.

If Trump actually wanted his wall, he could have proposed one with specificity. He could have spent some money to show Congress EXACTLY what the heck he "thinks" he wants. The Executive proposes and the Legislature disposes. That is the way it works! Trump has not done that because he has no earthly idea what he wants with specificity and he does not care.

That's actually not how it always works.
He's asked for prototypes and he's gotten them.
Now he wants the money to build the best option.
Did you expect him to design "with specificity" the ultimate wall himself sitting at the oval office desk or putting on one of the greens?
 
Not at all, because Obama was never the pitchman hypster flim-flam man that Trump clearly is

Yes. And the ACA provided people with important tangible results that served him even better than the act did when the act was merely an issue. The wall’s entire value to Trump is its issue value.

aaaaaand there's more "Cuz I said so" that's supposed to pass for substance.
 
Can you summarize what that reasoned argument is?



That's actually not how it always works.
He's asked for prototypes and he's gotten them.
Now he wants the money to build the best option.
Did you expect him to design "with specificity" the ultimate wall himself sitting at the oval office desk or putting on one of the greens?

My post looks fine to me. The other poster is reasoning that Trump does not actually want the Wall. That is all he really had to provide. One can call it a reasoned conclusion ore a reasoned argument. I called it a reasoned argument because the forum is titled DebatePolitics.

Trump has not either defined with specificity where he wants Wall or how much total length of Wall he wants and as far as I know has not even identified a preference from the prototypes. All of that could have been easily done with the $1.8B he got last year which he has NOT SPENT. The Executive Proposes and the Legislature disposes. That is EXACTLY how it works. Shouting WALL WALL WALL from a podium and "Mexico will pay for it" is not a proposal. He is NOT King Donald.
 
My post looks fine to me. The other poster is reasoning that Trump does not actually want the Wall. That is all he really had to provide. One can call it a reasoned conclusion ore a reasoned argument. I called it a reasoned argument because the forum is titled DebatePolitics.

Trump has not either defined with specificity where he wants Wall or how much total length of Wall he wants and as far as I know has not even identified a preference from the prototypes. All of that could have been easily done with the $1.8B he got last year which he has NOT SPENT. The Executive Proposes and the Legislature disposes. That is EXACTLY how it works. Shouting WALL WALL WALL from a podium and "Mexico will pay for it" is not a proposal. He is NOT King Donald.

Trump really wants a Wall.
Debate it.
 
My post looks fine to me. The other poster is reasoning that Trump does not actually want the Wall. That is all he really had to provide. One can call it a reasoned conclusion ore a reasoned argument. I called it a reasoned argument because the forum is titled DebatePolitics.

Trump has not either defined with specificity where he wants Wall or how much total length of Wall he wants and as far as I know has not even identified a preference from the prototypes. All of that could have been easily done with the $1.8B he got last year which he has NOT SPENT. The Executive Proposes and the Legislature disposes. That is EXACTLY how it works. Shouting WALL WALL WALL from a podium and "Mexico will pay for it" is not a proposal. He is NOT King Donald.

The specificity you're looking for is what comes from the Legislature, not the Oval Office.
 
The specificity you're looking for is what comes from the Legislature, not the Oval Office.

No it does not. It "can" come from the Legislature. But this is Trump's baby. When it is born in the President's campaign and is his baby, it's his job to propose it with some level of specificity, not the Legislature's. He either wants his Wall or he does not. Shouting Wall Wall Wall and "Mexico will pay for it" is not anything like the effort and the "proposal" the Executive makes under this set of circumstances. Did Obama depend on the Legislature to "define" the ACA? Did he not provide far more specificity for the ACA than Donald has provided for the Wall?

So far I see nothing that suggests that Trump wants the darned thing.
 
Stop being political correct for once! You know go back to when the fence act was in the conversation. How many of you guys rejected this question
 
No it does not. It "can" come from the Legislature. But this is Trump's baby. When it is born in the President's campaign and is his baby, it's his job to propose it with some level of specificity, not the Legislature's. He either wants his Wall or he does not. Shouting Wall Wall Wall and "Mexico will pay for it" is not anything like the effort and the "proposal" the Executive makes under this set of circumstances. Did Obama depend on the Legislature to "define" the ACA? Did he not provide far more specificity for the ACA than Donald has provided for the Wall?

So far I see nothing that suggests that Trump wants the darned thing.

Yeah but lotsa people didn't know he was lying about ACA. Did you?
But that's for a different thread.

As for something like the Wall, I'm afraid any President would need to rely on engineers and the BP for their input before any choice is made ... by the Legislature for the appropriation.

Call Chuck & Nancy and tell them to call Trump's bluff and appropriate $25B for the Wall because Trump really doesn't want it.
I betcha they don't agree with you.
They might even think you're hopelessly off base to believe Klein's theory.

You don't think Trump would take the $25B and build the Wall and I do.
 
Yeah but lotsa people didn't know he was lying about ACA. Did you?
But that's for a different thread.

As for something like the Wall, I'm afraid any President would need to rely on engineers and the BP for their input before any choice is made ... by the Legislature for the appropriation.

Call Chuck & Nancy and tell them to call Trump's bluff and appropriate $25B for the Wall because Trump really doesn't want it.
I betcha they don't agree with you.
They might even think you're hopelessly off base to believe Klein's theory.

You don't think Trump would take the $25B and build the Wall and I do.

AND WHO DOES THE BORDER PATROL WORK FOR?

Talk about staying off the topic.

As to getting the $25B, Sure if it fell in his lap he would build some sort of wall with it. What does that have to do with anything? The Right's ability to simply use nonsense combined with irrationality as points of argument is laughable.
 
AND WHO DOES THE BORDER PATROL WORK FOR?
Talk about staying off the topic.
You must be joking. You consult with the BP and engineers regarding what they believe would work best and you get agreement from all concerned.
I'm finding it difficult to imagine you really think a president should decide that by himself.

As to getting the $25B, Sure if it fell in his lap he would build some sort of wall with it. What does that have to do with anything? The Right's ability to simply use nonsense combined with irrationality as points of argument is laughable.

You're joking again. It has to do with the whole silly speculation that he doesn't want the Wall. He wants the Wall and would build it if he had the money. Now you agree.
 
You must be joking. You consult with the BP and engineers regarding what they believe would work best and you get agreement from all concerned.
I'm finding it difficult to imagine you really think a president should decide that by himself.



You're joking again. It has to do with the whole silly speculation that he doesn't want the Wall. He wants the Wall and would build it if he had the money. Now you agree.

The Executive proposes and the Legislature disposes.

Whatever opinion the Border Patrol had or has should work its way up through the Administration and into whatever actual Proposal the Administration wants to make in the name of the President. But that only happens if the President asks his DHS and Border Patrol to produce the material. Its his Administration and therefore HIS responsibility to make an actual, real Proposal to Congress.

You see, the way this works is if you spend your entire campaign screaming about some damned fool Wall, the assumption is that it is actually a serous plank of your platform, something you have considered that is fact based. If he actually wanted a Wall that is what should have happened. He would have ordered DHS and the Border Patrol to make recommendations up through Homeland Security that would be considered for inclusion into an administration proposal to Congress for this stupid Wall. That would include, how long and where and which of the prototype walls is the administration preferred choice among other things. Even at that if the President wanted to make different recommendations in the Administration Proposal, that is entirely the President's choice. But the Administration in the name of the President has to build and present a complete proposal and that complete proposal is build at the behest of a President THAT ACTUALLY CARES about seeing such a project through from proposal by his Administration to funding by the Congress and ultimate construction and completion.

When Congress holds hearings and calls DHS and Border Patrol representatives before the Congress they can ask if their recommendations were included in the Proposal or not. However this Administration has done nothing to move an actual legislative process for this Wall along. It has spent virtually none of the monies it was granted specifically for the Wall from last year's CR. It was granted well enough money from that CR to round out the actual details of a proposal to Congress and has done NOTHING. You can tell just from the comments Trump makes about the Wall that they STILL have no specifics AT ALL!

The logical conclusion one takes from this President's Administration having done NOTHNG is that the President simply does not actually care about building this Wall.

You can try to beat around the bush all you want to. Nothing has happened that suggests Trump actually wants this Wall. Count me as not surprised if you don't actually know how government functions.
 
Trump doesn't need money from Congress or Mexico, DHS is already building it.

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Trump doesn't need money from Congress or Mexico, DHS is already building it.

DuUWUTCWoAE0mmN.jpg

No they are not. They have not built a foot of new wall. They have been repairing and renovating sections of the existing fence and they are in fact over budget on that project.
 
White liberals, stop being outraged on behalf of minorities. It’s extremely condescending & insulting. I’m an adult capable of free thought I’ll decide when something offends me, now kindly go away

Don't understand the context of your remark. What does this thread have to do with minorities? That said, as a white guy, I am allowed to be outraged if he insults my friends and acquaintances. They don't seem to mind.
 
No they are not. They have not built a foot of new wall. They have been repairing and renovating sections of the existing fence and they are in fact over budget on that project.

Are you trying to say you do not believe our government?!?
 
The Executive proposes and the Legislature disposes.

Whatever opinion the Border Patrol had or has should work its way up through the Administration and into whatever actual Proposal the Administration wants to make in the name of the President. But that only happens if the President asks his DHS and Border Patrol to produce the material. Its his Administration and therefore HIS responsibility to make an actual, real Proposal to Congress.

You see, the way this works is if you spend your entire campaign screaming about some damned fool Wall, the assumption is that it is actually a serous plank of your platform, something you have considered that is fact based. If he actually wanted a Wall that is what should have happened. He would have ordered DHS and the Border Patrol to make recommendations up through Homeland Security that would be considered for inclusion into an administration proposal to Congress for this stupid Wall. That would include, how long and where and which of the prototype walls is the administration preferred choice among other things. Even at that if the President wanted to make different recommendations in the Administration Proposal, that is entirely the President's choice. But the Administration in the name of the President has to build and present a complete proposal and that complete proposal is build at the behest of a President THAT ACTUALLY CARES about seeing such a project through from proposal by his Administration to funding by the Congress and ultimate construction and completion.

When Congress holds hearings and calls DHS and Border Patrol representatives before the Congress they can ask if their recommendations were included in the Proposal or not. However this Administration has done nothing to move an actual legislative process for this Wall along. It has spent virtually none of the monies it was granted specifically for the Wall from last year's CR. It was granted well enough money from that CR to round out the actual details of a proposal to Congress and has done NOTHING. You can tell just from the comments Trump makes about the Wall that they STILL have no specifics AT ALL!

The logical conclusion one takes from this President's Administration having done NOTHNG is that the President simply does not actually care about building this Wall.

You can try to beat around the bush all you want to. Nothing has happened that suggests Trump actually wants this Wall. Count me as not surprised if you don't actually know how government functions.

I always try to be polite but when someone resorts to anything like that I know they're on empty or terminally naive so there's no point continuing a discussion with them.
 
Are you trying to say you do not believe our government?!?

I don't give a damn how high the stupid thing is. It IS renovation and repair of existing fencing that has been referred to as Bollard Fencing FOREVER! If the DHS of this Administration wants to call it something else like a Wall in order to bail out their oblivious President without a plan or a proposal, they can BE MY GUEST and join the rest of this halfassed halfbaked administration that simply spends whatever time it has trying to bend itself into something that parallels the garbage coming out of its President's mouth.

Its Bollard Fencing none of which is at all a Wall and none of which is based on the prototypes. There is one prototype that integrates some Bollard. But that is as close as it gets to any of those prototypes at all being similar to what they are actually doing in repair and renovation of the FENCE!

And just to add the finishing touches, Mexico is not "paying" for the renovation and repair of the Bollard Fence EITHER!
 
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I always try to be polite but when someone resorts to anything like that I know they're on empty or terminally naive so there's no point continuing a discussion with them.


Ah-huh. Oh goody...you mean I don't have to look at more nonsense? What a relief.
 
White liberals, stop being outraged on behalf of minorities. It’s extremely condescending & insulting. I’m an adult capable of free thought I’ll decide when something offends me, now kindly go away

As a minority myself, I also find this behavior offensive.
 
Yeah, its a DEBATE forum. The purpose is to make a argument and then we debate it. Not just say heres a video I agree with. You can go post that in the youtube comments. Im interested in YOUR thoughts, not Kleins.

.

As for my own thoughts I think Ezra has a valid point to make this is no way to know for sure but it's it sounds like Trump sounds like that's who he is he's more concerned about his image and that if he wants to accomplish anything it's for the image a lot more so than for the actual accomplishment
 
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