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Trump did you forgot something about florida shooter

plutonium

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did you forget to attack the fbi for not letting gun shops know not to sell this guy any weapons or continue to keep and eye on him.. or is it Obama and Hillarys fault
 

EMNofSeattle

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did you forget to attack the fbi for not letting gun shops know not to sell this guy any weapons or continue to keep and eye on him.. or is it Obama and Hillarys fault

The FBI has no legal authority for that.
 

tres borrachos

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did you forget to attack the fbi for not letting gun shops know not to sell this guy any weapons or continue to keep and eye on him.. or is it Obama and Hillarys fault

The FBI investigated him and found no evidence of terrorist ties or activities. So on what basis would they tell gun shops not to sell him guns or keep an eye on him?
 

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did you forget to attack the fbi for not letting gun shops know not to sell this guy any weapons or continue to keep and eye on him.. or is it Obama and Hillarys fault

What a silly juvenile post .
 

EMNofSeattle

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EMNofSeattle

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the same law that allowed the FBI to surveil the Orlando shooter in the past

please cite the relevant section of United States code in Title 18 chapter 44 authorizing this.
 

Grand Mal

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The FBI investigated him and found no evidence of terrorist ties or activities. So on what basis would they tell gun shops not to sell him guns or keep an eye on him?

There's a question I never thought of before. When the gun shop owner does a background check, is it up to the owner to decide if anything in the check disqualifies the customer, or is there some kind of red flag put there by law enforcement? I mean, suppose I did time for, say, aggravated assault. Does some kind of notification come up that I'm not to be sold guns, or does the person running the check need to know that my conviction disqualifies me?
 

EMNofSeattle

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dont have any plans to do your homework for you

You don't need to, I know you're wrong. No such section of law exists, I could post the entire chapter and fill several thread pages doing so, or you can cite the one regular paragraph, all reasonable observers will see you're the one who's less credible here .
 

EMNofSeattle

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There's a question I never thought of before. When the gun shop owner does a background check, is it up to the owner to decide if anything in the check disqualifies the customer, or is there some kind of red flag put there by law enforcement? I mean, suppose I did time for, say, aggravated assault. Does some kind of notification come up that I'm not to be sold guns, or does the person running the check need to know that my conviction disqualifies me?

The dealer has a hotline to the FBI information center in West Virginia that was built just for gun checks, the dealer makes the call, when it gets answered by a staff member the dealer reads off each detail the buyer put on the form 4473 (the paperwork you fill out to buy) that information is then run against the FBIs database of all criminal and mental health records, if the search returns no result the FBI staff member tells the dealer "proceed" which means the dealer may complete the sale. if the information is a direct match to someone in the database as "prohibited" the staff member says "deny" and the dealer may not complete the sale, the buyer is told they may appeal to the FBI if they're incorrectly listed and given a case number to challenge. if the information is similar but not a direct match the staff tells the dealer "delay" at which point the FBI will manually go through their records to verify who's trying to buy and will make the proceed or deny decision later, if that decision doesn't come down in three business days the dealer may at their discretion complete the sale.

the dealer is never informed of why the FBI office staff say yes or no, all they know is if the FBI says yes or no, the dealer only has discretion if they get no answer. if someone is denied the dealer is supposed to tell them to take it up with the FBI and get it resolved. so no the dealer is not judging convictions.
 

EMNofSeattle

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There's a question I never thought of before. When the gun shop owner does a background check, is it up to the owner to decide if anything in the check disqualifies the customer, or is there some kind of red flag put there by law enforcement? I mean, suppose I did time for, say, aggravated assault. Does some kind of notification come up that I'm not to be sold guns, or does the person running the check need to know that my conviction disqualifies me?

also of note is in 2005 the Supreme Court ruled that foreign convictions do not qualify as being convicted under federal law. let's make up an absurd hypothetical example to illustrate, Dennis Lortie (the guy who killed some people in Quebecs parliament in the 80s and get paroled only 10 years later for what was basically an active shooter incident), if he applied for US residency and the ICE approved him (they won't because of his history, but if they did) and he moved here, there would be no legal avenue to prevent him from buying a gun, unless he has a US felony conviction.

the FBI for years would categorize foreign convictions and people convicted in foreign courts before 2005 still get flagged and denied, but always win on appeal.
 

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You don't need to, I know you're wrong. No such section of law exists, I could post the entire chapter and fill several thread pages doing so, or you can cite the one regular paragraph, all reasonable observers will see you're the one who's less credible here .


so you are saying the FBI's serveil of the Orlando shooter was illegal?
 

EMNofSeattle

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so you are saying the FBI's serveil of the Orlando shooter was illegal?

No, can watch him all they want, they can't make him a prohibited person without convicting him of a crime or getting a judge to order him to the booby hatch.
 

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did you forget to attack the fbi for not letting gun shops know not to sell this guy any weapons or continue to keep and eye on him.. or is it Obama and Hillarys fault
Basic civil liberties that apparently Hillary forgot when it is convenient for her to do so. It is illegal to withhold rights from someone because they are under suspicion. Being under suspicion is not the same as being guilty. Please understand the concept because it is highly important. Hillary is under criminal investigation by the FBI but she is not yet determined to be guilty so she can continue to run for President. President Obama also forget this simple civil rights issue when he assassinates people overseas who are SUSPECTED of being terrorists (even when they are sitting at home drinking tea).

This is so wrong that no one who calls themselves a liberal should disagree.

Trump has his issues but he understands that you can not withhold rights because some one SUSPECTS you of something.

This is SO BASIC.

(And also the reason why I and the ACLU are so hesitant to allow government to make up no fly lists and other things (like no gun buying lists) because of suspicions.
 

natsb

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There's a question I never thought of before. When the gun shop owner does a background check, is it up to the owner to decide if anything in the check disqualifies the customer, or is there some kind of red flag put there by law enforcement? I mean, suppose I did time for, say, aggravated assault. Does some kind of notification come up that I'm not to be sold guns, or does the person running the check need to know that my conviction disqualifies me?

The dealer does not do the background check. It is not their decision. Nor do they know why the "no sale" decision is made.

Each State Is free to handle the backgrounds checks as they wish as long as their method complies with FBI rules. My State, for instance, has the dealer call the FBI hotline directly. In Florida, where the shooting occurred, the dealer calls a Florida State hotline to get the "sale" or "no sale" ruling.
 

natsb

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did you forget to attack the fbi for not letting gun shops know not to sell this guy any weapons or continue to keep and eye on him.. or is it Obama and Hillarys fault

Did you know the FBI works for Obama? "lack of logic" indeed....
 

tres borrachos

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There's a question I never thought of before. When the gun shop owner does a background check, is it up to the owner to decide if anything in the check disqualifies the customer, or is there some kind of red flag put there by law enforcement? I mean, suppose I did time for, say, aggravated assault. Does some kind of notification come up that I'm not to be sold guns, or does the person running the check need to know that my conviction disqualifies me?

That's the thing - I'm not sure that a gun store owner has the unilateral authority to deny a US citizen his Constitutional right without explicit orders from Uncle Sam himself, or one of his delegates. I don't know if something like aggravated assault automatically precludes you from having a gun, unless that's part of your sentencing. Parolees I don't think are allowed to buy guns. But this clown in Orlando had not a single stain on his record. FBI found no cause after investigating him, and he had no criminal record.
 
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