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Trump did something unique to him that I can laud

How do we know that was a hot minute. A simple video edit (the favored tool of MSM) and it looks like a hot minute.

Trump's post "meeting" comments clearly suggest they had a meeting after that "meeting" however short it might have been.

If the entire "meeting" was that mess on camera then nothing was intended to be accomplished today either in front off or outside of view of the cameras. So if you want to complain about the whole thing being a charade. go for it. But as soon as the cameras were invited in, whatever was intended was turned into a charade.

Red:
I know how I know, but I'm not going to give you the phone number for the people from whom I get my "inside scoop." I suggest you call Chuck or Nancy's office and ask them (their staff) whether there was, after the televised meeting, a "real" meeting between them and Trump.
 
Then you have not been watching Trump very carefully. I would absolutely agree that if push comes to shove, Trump will not take the blame for a shutdown. He will concoct some loophole to try to squeeze that fat blob of a body of his through.

Trump continually tried to equate The Wall with Border Security (nonsense) and remembering that Trump's MO is to simply keep repeating the same nonsense until his adversary stops contesting it, if I were Shumer since it was he that went down the path of contesting Trump on that point I would not have contested it just once or even twice. I would have shoved it right back down his throat every single time.

That was pure, spur of the moment theater with Trump having convinced himself that he would come out on top in that made for TV production. Shumer as expected did not acquit himself well IMO as once he started down that path, given Trump's MO is well known by now Shumer should not have needed instruction. Pelosi on the other hand did acquit herself well also as expected.

Shumer maybe MAYBE earned himself a draw as he is darned proud of himself for getting Trump to "claim" he will take blame for a shutdown. That Trump was STUPID enough to blunder into that even figuring he could wheedle out later was amazing!

Trump is damned lucky one of them simply did not shove his "and Mexico will pay for it" constant mantra right down his throat as well.

But the point was made and Trump opened the door to it being made thinking he would come out on top in that format. The point: Welcome to divided government Donald. Hope you liked it. I doubt you did. You won't have much to say about it now whether you liked it or not.

Pence for his part looked like he was looking for a hole in the carpet to climb through.

The irony is that Republicans control 3 branches now and he is blaming Democrats. The $1.6 billion for border security was in Trump's own budget and in the budget from House Republicans and now he won't take yes for an answer. It appears the "great negotiator" does not know the 1st thing about negotiation. That you can always go down but you can't go up.
 
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Wouldn't that just lead to grandstanding? And I think that's Trump's motive here. He wanted to be on camera fighting for border security.

I do like seeing the parliamentary debates they have in Britain.

Or just exposing the Democrats for the liars that they really are.

All the while, acting like Trump is the only liar in the room.

Disgusting people, and their followers are just as bad.

Same goes for hard core Republicans.
 
Or just exposing the Democrats for the liars that they really are.

All the while, acting like Trump is the only liar in the room.

Disgusting people, and their followers are just as bad.

Same goes for hard core Republicans.

LOL You like Trump but do not like liars. It's a wonder you can juggle that contradiction in terms. It must be quite a load. Trump is threatening to shut down the Govt. because he got the 1.6 billion he asked for in his own budget. Juggle that.
 
It was a nine year-old man baby having a hissy fit.
And judging by the number of jaws that resembled oven doors hanging open, apparently a lot of other people saw it as that, too.
 
How do we know that was a hot minute. A simple video edit (the favored tool of MSM) and it looks like a hot minute.

Trump's post "meeting" comments clearly suggest they had a meeting after that "meeting" however short it might have been.

If the entire "meeting" was that mess on camera then nothing was intended to be accomplished today either in front off or outside of view of the cameras. So if you want to complain about the whole thing being a charade. go for it. But as soon as the cameras were invited in, whatever was intended was turned into a charade.

"It's all a conspiracy, I tell you!"
 
That event was a master trap perpetrated by Trump...and Nancy and Chuck walked right into it.

Trump came across as the "national security" guy and the other two came across as partisan opposition and hypocrites.

It was there for the world to see.

I bet Chuck and Nancy are pissed.

Yay! Good times in Happy Backwards Upside Down Land!
 
Or just exposing the Democrats for the liars that they really are.

All the while, acting like Trump is the only liar in the room.

Disgusting people, and their followers are just as bad.

Same goes for hard core Republicans.

Speaking of liars, Trump said Mexico was going to pay for the wall.

I'm so disappointed at Pelosi and Schumer for not throwing that in his face during the conference.

"But Donald, why do you need money from us for the wall? Didn't you say Mexico would pay for it?"

It boggles my mind how Trump cult members can just forget this...

Trump: "Who's going to pay for the wall?!"

Crowd: "Mexico!"



I don't understand how you don't see you've been scammed?
 
Red:
I know how I know, but I'm not going to give you the phone number for the people from whom I get my "inside scoop." I suggest you call Chuck or Nancy's office and ask them (their staff) whether there was, after the televised meeting, a "real" meeting between them and Trump.

If that is the case then the whole thing was theater and intended to be theater by Trump even as he scheduled the meeting whether with or without cameras. He was more likely intending to invite in the cameras earlier than the moments before the "meeting" that was not actually a meeting. He either intended this all along or it came to him like a bolt of lighting sometime between scheduling and today. Trump simply thought that he would put a couple more scalps in his belt with Cameras on. Oops!

There will be some that will applaud today's fiasco. I can't say they are many at this point. But they are some. I would guess that his real hard core base is at about 28% of the Electorate and I would guess half of that actually wants to burn it all to the ground and has believed from day 1 that Donald was the best vessel to pour that desire into they were ever going to see. They sit and giggle at this nonsense convinced that they have just the President they want, a guy that spreads gasoline on the Oval Office floor and spends the rest of the day playing with matches.
 
Speaking of liars, Trump said Mexico was going to pay for the wall.

I'm so disappointed at Pelosi and Schumer for not throwing that in his face during the conference.

"But Donald, why do you need money from us for the wall? Didn't you say Mexico would pay for it?"

It boggles my mind how Trump cult members can just forget this...

Trump: "Who's going to pay for the wall?!"

Crowd: "Mexico!"



I don't understand how you don't see you've been scammed?


Pelosi saw how weak he was, not being able to improvise and not realize when he's bested.

Trump: "If I needed the votes for the wall in the house, I would have them in one session. It would be done."

Pelosi: "So go do it."

BAM. Exposed what a retarded con man he is.
 
If that is the case then the whole thing was theater and intended to be theater by Trump even as he scheduled the meeting whether with or without cameras. He was more likely intending to invite in the cameras earlier than the moments before the "meeting" that was not actually a meeting. He either intended this all along or it came to him like a bolt of lighting sometime between scheduling and today. Trump simply thought that he would put a couple more scalps in his belt with Cameras on. Oops!

I can't say when was hatched the idea to turn the meeting into a vehicle for political theater, as it were. I'd say the notion became a foregone conclusion sometime between Sunday and Monday, namely the time at which someone figured out admitting the cameras would essentially force the press to focus less on any of the things that have occupied the past four days:
  • recruiting difficulties at the highest level of the WH,
  • the prospect of Trump's impeachment,
  • Trump's DoJ tacitly indicting him for two criminally culpable felonies,
  • the Russia Investigation,
  • Michael Cohen,
  • Michael Flynn,
  • Maria Butina and
  • Paul Manafort.
I'm pretty sure that it didn't matter to him and his political handlers which of those topics receive, as a result of his opening the meeting to the cameras, less news coverage, analysis and commentary.

From a Trump-abetting political strategy standpoint, the dogged press needed a new "bone," one far more appealing than an outrageous tweet. That meeting provided one. From that standpoint, really didn't matter how successful or unsuccessful the meeting itself was. As long as it reduced the "air" available for the above bullet-listed topics,



There will be some that will applaud today's fiasco. I can't say they are many at this point. But they are some. I would guess that his real hard core base is at about 28% of the Electorate and I would guess half of that actually wants to burn it all to the ground and has believed from day 1 that Donald was the best vessel to pour that desire into they were ever going to see. They sit and giggle at this nonsense convinced that they have just the President they want, a guy that spreads gasoline on the Oval Office floor and spends the rest of the day playing with matches.

Maybe...I don't pay much mind to anarchists and their musings and mad rants.
 
I doubt that was honesty, as it is almost certain he will not take responsibility for the shutdown should it occur.
This ^^^

When was the last time Trump accepted and acknowledged responsibility for any failure/negative outcome of something he had part in?
 
Am I the only one pissed off because I just watched the culmination of a process whereby some share of my tax dollars were completely wasted.
  • Wasted --> Whatever costs were incurred to prepare for the meeting. Staff, facilities/infrastructure, phone calls, emails, etc....all that time and effort, thus their costs for naught.
  • Wasted --> Whatever it cost to have the POTUS, VPOTUS, and Congressional Minority Leaders all in a room and getting nowhere.


Maybe it's only I who's pissed. I retired from a 30+ year-long career in management consulting whereby I and my project teams provided professional services mostly to C-level and EVP-level managers of Fortune 500 (or similar outside the US) firms and government units. The meetings I attended for the bulk of that career included several of the client's principals, the project partner I oversaw, and the project senior manager whom the project partner oversaw. My teams routinely, because that's the way implementation projects happen, held meetings with their client counterparts as well as internal meetings. One simply cannot have unproductive meetings; there's no time for that and no client wants to pay for them (nor is it right to bill them for them).

Though our public servants aren't exactly billing on a T&M schedule as I and my staff did, they are subject to the same constraints: each of us has only so much time in a day, and ineffective meetings do not make good use of that time. Thus when government officials waste resources having unproductive meetings, resources we taxpayers entrusted them to efficiently use, they're spending money wastefully just as do private sector unproductive meetings. There is a key difference however: a client can refuse to pay for an unproductive meeting, where the government's clients, you and I, cannot; whatever resources the gov't wastes, we cannot ever recover.

I thought the meeting was productive.

In just a few minutes, they determined who should be held responsible should a shutdown occur -- a first in politics
 
I thought the meeting was productive.

In just a few minutes, they determined who should be held responsible should a shutdown occur -- a first in politics

That would be a political outcome not a policy outcome. As I've noted before, in this thread even, I really don't care about the political value (or lack thereof) of anything government officials do. I don't because implementing sage and effective policy will yield all the "political gold" one, any incumbent, could possibly want. Sage policymaking that avails the interests and well being of the polity is the best political capital there is.
 
This ^^^

When was the last time Trump accepted and acknowledged responsibility for any failure/negative outcome of something he had part in?

I don't know that he's ever made a political declaration quite as unequivocal as the one he made today.
 
That would be a political outcome not a policy outcome. As I've noted before, in this thread even, I really don't care about the political value (or lack thereof) of anything government officials do. I don't because implementing sage and effective policy will yield all the "political gold" one, any incumbent, could possibly want. Sage policymaking that avails the interests and well being of the polity is the best political capital there is.

You are free to care about,or not, whatever you choose. However, politics matter in a democracy. It is how policies gain or loss support.
 
Red:
I know how I know, but I'm not going to give you the phone number for the people from whom I get my "inside scoop." I suggest you call Chuck or Nancy's office and ask them (their staff) whether there was, after the televised meeting, a "real" meeting between them and Trump.

So the reporting tonight is that there WAS a closed door session after the reporters were ushered out of the office. In THAT session according to the reporting, Trump picked up his mantra AGAIN that "Mexico would pay for the wall" now through NAFTA payments. Nobody knows what that means as there is no such thing as NAFTA payments and that one has the talking heads of MSM mumbling to themselves more than the actual on camera part of that meeting.
 
So the reporting tonight is that there WAS a closed door session after the reporters were ushered out of the office. In THAT session according to the reporting, Trump picked up his mantra AGAIN that "Mexico would pay for the wall" now through NAFTA payments. Nobody knows what that means as there is no such thing as NAFTA payments and that one has the talking heads of MSM mumbling to themselves more than the actual on camera part of that meeting.

It occurs to me that Donald could be just oblivious and unscrupulous enough to be implying that the structural penalties in NAFTA could just be shifted over to Wall payments, but that would be patently false and absurd. Those sorts of payments would be earmarked to support the US industries and the US workers that one assumes were damaged which is what causes structural penalties to be applied if and when they are applied.

So I have no earthly idea what Donald is talking about and I doubt he does either.
 
You are free to care about,or not, whatever you choose. However, politics matter in a democracy. It is how policies gain or loss support.

It's not how they gain or lose my support, which is why I don't discuss policy in political terms.
 
So the reporting tonight is that there WAS a closed door session after the reporters were ushered out of the office. In THAT session according to the reporting, Trump picked up his mantra AGAIN that "Mexico would pay for the wall" now through NAFTA payments. Nobody knows what that means as there is no such thing as NAFTA payments and that one has the talking heads of MSM mumbling to themselves more than the actual on camera part of that meeting.

Okay. Based on that reporting, I was wrong. I haven't seen the reporting of which you write, but I suppose it'll show up somewhere.

What I've read about the meeting:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...-erupts-border-wall-funding/story?id=59751054
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...2111be-fd79-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2...pares-him-to-a-skunk-after-oval-office-clash/
I don't see a word about what transpired in a closed-door meeting between Trump, Pelosi and Schumer, or that there was one.
 
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Okay. Based on that reporting, I was wrong. I haven't seen the reporting of which you write, but I suppose it'll show up somewhere.

What I've read about the meeting:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...-erupts-border-wall-funding/story?id=59751054
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...2111be-fd79-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2...pares-him-to-a-skunk-after-oval-office-clash/
I don't see a word about what transpired in a closed-door meeting between Trump, Pelosi and Schumer, or that there was one.

Google "closed door meeting between pelosi, schumer and trump". Below is the sort of stuff that is coming up now for that search query.

closed door meeting between pelosi, schumer and trump
4:15 p.m.

After squabbling about a border wall with Democratic leaders in front of reporters, President Donald Trump is now saying that the private part of their meeting was "very friendly."

He said at a bill signing Tuesday afternoon that after reporters left the morning meeting with Democratic Senate and House leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, they all had a good discussion.

Trump said: "Believe it or not, I think it was a very friendly meeting. You just saw the beginning of it."

He went on to say that he has liked the two Democrats for a long time.

The president says he doesn't mind taking the blame for a government shutdown if the two sides can't agree on funding for border improvements.

___


Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article222957490.html#storylink=cpy

As you have likely noticed, I simply will not post up links. i certainly can do it but don't and won't. Normally I would have eliminated the source footer above. But this site appears to have decided to want sourcing for a quote. So I left it.
 
It's not how they gain or lose my support, which is why I don't discuss policy in political terms.

That is just not true.

Take this meeting. Trump just increased the costs for himself if he shuts the govt down, making it less likely

Another example is Trumps campaign. Immigration, and a wall, would not be such a big issue if he had not run.
 
It's not how they gain or lose my support, which is why I don't discuss policy in political terms.
That is just not true.

Take this meeting. Trump just increased the costs for himself if he shuts the govt down, making it less likely

Another example is Trumps campaign. Immigration, and a wall, would not be such a big issue if he had not run.





Red:
rotflmao.gif


Trump's running made immigration an issue that divides Americans. His ascendancy didn't make immigration an issue or a big issue.

 
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