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Trump did something unique to him that I can laud

I doubt that was honesty, as it is almost certain he will not take responsibility for the shutdown should it occur.

Will he lie and deny he said what we all heard? I don't doubt it.
 
Is that what you saw? I saw the dims want to take the conversation private, and the Donald sayin, Um, no, let's hash it out so the American people can see what's really going on, and he also owned the "shutdown without the wall", and wore it proudly.. Love him or hate him, any American can appreciate that level of honesty and transparency coming from elected leaders. I also got the impression, although, easy to miss from the uneducated eye, that Trump owns these two clowns. You can tell He knows them intimately and plays their game way better than they do..

I saw both Pelosi and Chuck trying to get out their talking points, attempting to take the high-ground, with comments like "we want a fact based discussion".. "We want a deal to not shutdown the government".. Blah blah.. I'm sure the FSM will all have their angles on tonight's newscasts, but, if anything comes of this video, for me at least, it shows that America chose the right person for the Presidency and only affirms that point!

Those two clowns are so out-matched they don't even know it, and if they didn't have a fawning, militant press Corps at their disposal, they'd both be out of jobs!


Tim-

Red:
Trump didn't exhibit a level of transparency. He did exhibit an incidence of transparency. A level of transparency requires a hell of a lot more visibility and honesty than can be delivered by having an open meeting.

I'm fine with giving Trump his due, and that's why the thread is titled as it is and why the OP opens applauding the meeting's having been open; however, I'm not going to give him (or anyone else) more than his due.

One's due is earned. What one doesn't earn, one doesn't, from me, receive.
 
Kal'Stang said:
. He only started being rude after Nancy came out with that "Trump shutdown" comment.
Trump lied, Nancy called him out.
And Trump agreed in that very meeting it was his shut down, and he takes ownership of it, how was it rude if Trump agrees (and it's true)?

Say what you will about Trump, but plain fact of the matter is that he normally does not attack anyone unless he feels that they are attacking him first. That's why a lot of people like Trump. Because they see those little barbs that are constantly given out by both sides (or one side if they're too partisan to see their own side doing it also), like Nancy's "Trump shutdown" barb for instance, and he doesn't put up with it.
He lies.
He gets called out.
He cant' defend it because lies, and so he ad homs them back.

And here you are applauding that and saying people like this? I agree, a lot of you do engage in this and seem to like it, but it's obviously juvenile and results in B.S.
 
Red:
Trump was both rude and assertive ("forceful" isn't a word I'd use to describe his comportment/utterances in that meeting). Those two behaviors aren't mutually exclusive. It's very possible, and all too common, frankly, for one to be rudely assertive; however, one can also be decorously assertive. None of them were perfectly polite, and quibbling over who was more or less so is an "angels and pinheads" discussion as far as I'm concerned.

Won't dispute this.

Blue:
There was no "after" meeting. Chuck and Nancy left the Oval and the WH. They didn't re-enter for a follow-up meeting. What we witnessed is what there was.

oey vey. So more than likely this was a complete PR stunt for Nancy and Chuck who had no intention of going to the actual meeting.
 
That event was a master trap perpetrated by Trump...and Nancy and Chuck walked right into it.

Trump came across as the "national security" guy and the other two came across as partisan opposition and hypocrites.

It was there for the world to see.

I bet Chuck and Nancy are pissed.

He's a master at manipulating people like you.

About the wall, this is from the very conservative CATO institute...

Why the Wall Won’t Work

How can you call yourself conservative when you support wasting money?
 
It is confirmed. Nancy is pissed.

“It’s like a manhood thing with him, as if manhood can be associated with him.”

Per Politico, Pelosi also said of the conversation with Trump, “It goes to show you: you get into a tinkle contest with a skunk, you get tinkle all over you.”

https://www.mediaite.com/online/pel...-trumps-manhood-following-meeting-with-potus/

Those late night "comedians" who don't like Trump had better watch out. Nancy is running their shtick better than they are. LOL!!
 
Will he lie and deny he said what we all heard? I don't doubt it.

Absolutely. Normally his team is supposed to say "WTF are you doing you crazy mother****er?".
His current supporters simply say "whatever you say or do, we have your back".
 
If one thing is consistent with Trump, it's his love for media attention and camera time. Does not matter if it is good ,bad or indifferent.
 
See, that is where I disagree with you

Saying Trump made it happen, and should be applauded for it, implies that was his intention. The truth is, it was not intended. It happened because Trump has no self-control, a character flaw that should not be applauded
  • The meeting happened in the Oval Office.
  • Trump invited Chuck and Nancy to the WH to have the meeting.
  • Trump was the most senior principal in the meeting and as such was the only one who could invite the cameras in or exclude them.
  • That the meeting was open enabled the polity to see and hear what transpired.
    • I find it impossible to say visibility of any nature and extent, regardless of why it be made available, is a bad thing.
Trump may have had any number of reasons for making the meeting be an open one, but there is no way to give anyone but him credit for the meeting being open to the press. Giving him that credit is what I did in my OP.


Aside:
I created this thread to illustrate one thing: it's possible to and I'm capable of giving credit -- neither more nor less -- to anyone who earns it. I don't know how much of my DP Trump commentary you've read, but it shouldn't take you long to discern that I utterly detest the man and hate that he's POTUS.

Even so, I have enough self-respect to give the man the due he earns (the OP here isn't the only positive thing I have to say about Trump), just as I give him the grief he earns. I do that with everyone.

 
Won't dispute this.



oey vey. So more than likely this was a complete PR stunt for Nancy and Chuck who had no intention of going to the actual meeting.

Red:
Did you read the "MBTM" portion of the OP?
 
I doubt that was honesty, as it is almost certain he will not take responsibility for the shutdown should it occur.

Red:
If that be what he does should a shutdown occur, it'll be, at the very least, entertaining to see/hear him try to not-own the shutdown.
 
It is confirmed. Nancy is pissed.



Those late night "comedians" who don't like Trump had better watch out. Nancy is running their shtick better than they are. LOL!!

LOL, we actually agree. :)

I can't think of a better description of the master snowflake Trump: “It’s like a manhood thing with him, as if manhood can be associated with him.”
 
Wouldn't that just lead to grandstanding? And I think that's Trump's motive here. He wanted to be on camera fighting for border security.

I do like seeing the parliamentary debates they have in Britain.

The irony here is that while he believed he was being strong and powerful, we all saw a petulant child refusing to be thwarted by adults.
 
How could you vote or those two boobs?

CATO is never Trumper deluxe.

Pssst....




Shhhhh. Can you see the problem?
 
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Is that what you saw? I saw the dims want to take the conversation private, and the Donald sayin, Um, no, let's hash it out so the American people can see what's really going on, and he also owned the "shutdown without the wall", and wore it proudly.. Love him or hate him, any American can appreciate that level of honesty and transparency coming from elected leaders. I also got the impression, although, easy to miss from the uneducated eye, that Trump owns these two clowns. You can tell He knows them intimately and plays their game way better than they do..

I saw both Pelosi and Chuck trying to get out their talking points, attempting to take the high-ground, with comments like "we want a fact based discussion".. "We want a deal to not shutdown the government".. Blah blah.. I'm sure the FSM will all have their angles on tonight's newscasts, but, if anything comes of this video, for me at least, it shows that America chose the right person for the Presidency and only affirms that point!

Those two clowns are so out-matched they don't even know it, and if they didn't have a fawning, militant press Corps at their disposal, they'd both be out of jobs!


Tim-

Red:
  • What's there to object to about that exhortation?
  • Do you take exception with discussing and forming policy based on the body of extant facts?
  • Is your normative stance jettisoning the epistemological standards of sagacious subject-matter analysis and subsequent decision making and policy making is better than cleaving to them?

Blue:
Why wouldn't they have articulated that aim? It's what they were there to achieve. Trump was there to obtain funding for border security in general and his wall specifically. He made it clear that he won't cotton to border security funding that doesn't include funding for his wall. Chuck and Nancy offered border security funding, but not wall funding.

So, as I noted in my OP, non-extant were the productive MBTMs that needed to happen so all three of them arrived at the meeting having the same notions about what'd be achieved. Insofar as such MBTMs didn't occur, the three key principals had to, in the meeting, state what they were there to accomplish. That is what it is, but it nonetheless is. That it is informs us that poor meeting planning preceded the meeting. That too is what it is, but it is something that shouldn't ever happen with regard to any meeting a senior-most executive calls.
 
How could you vote or those two boobs?

CATO is never Trumper deluxe.

They did not just say the wall won't work. They gave logical reasons why it is a boondoggle. You can't just say the wall is good because Trump thinks it is. Unless you are a blind sycophant that is. They are the ONLY ones that think it is a good idea. That is very telling.
 
Am I the only one pissed off because I just watched the culmination of a process whereby some share of my tax dollars were completely wasted.
  • Wasted --> Whatever costs were incurred to prepare for the meeting. Staff, facilities/infrastructure, phone calls, emails, etc....all that time and effort, thus their costs for naught.
  • Wasted --> Whatever it cost to have the POTUS, VPOTUS, and Congressional Minority Leaders all in a room and getting nowhere.


Maybe it's only I who's pissed. I retired from a 30+ year-long career in management consulting whereby I and my project teams provided professional services mostly to C-level and EVP-level managers of Fortune 500 (or similar outside the US) firms and government units. The meetings I attended for the bulk of that career included several of the client's principals, the project partner I oversaw, and the project senior manager whom the project partner oversaw. My teams routinely, because that's the way implementation projects happen, held meetings with their client counterparts as well as internal meetings. One simply cannot have unproductive meetings; there's no time for that and no client wants to pay for them (nor is it right to bill them for them).

Though our public servants aren't exactly billing on a T&M schedule as I and my staff did, they are subject to the same constraints: each of us has only so much time in a day, and ineffective meetings do not make good use of that time. Thus when government officials waste resources having unproductive meetings, resources we taxpayers entrusted them to efficiently use, they're spending money wastefully just as do private sector unproductive meetings. There is a key difference however: a client can refuse to pay for an unproductive meeting, where the government's clients, you and I, cannot; whatever resources the gov't wastes, we cannot ever recover.
 
Will he lie and deny he said what we all heard? I don't doubt it.

Then you have not been watching Trump very carefully. I would absolutely agree that if push comes to shove, Trump will not take the blame for a shutdown. He will concoct some loophole to try to squeeze that fat blob of a body of his through.

Trump continually tried to equate The Wall with Border Security (nonsense) and remembering that Trump's MO is to simply keep repeating the same nonsense until his adversary stops contesting it, if I were Shumer since it was he that went down the path of contesting Trump on that point I would not have contested it just once or even twice. I would have shoved it right back down his throat every single time.

That was pure, spur of the moment theater with Trump having convinced himself that he would come out on top in that made for TV production. Shumer as expected did not acquit himself well IMO as once he started down that path, given Trump's MO is well known by now Shumer should not have needed instruction. Pelosi on the other hand did acquit herself well also as expected.

Shumer maybe MAYBE earned himself a draw as he is darned proud of himself for getting Trump to "claim" he will take blame for a shutdown. That Trump was STUPID enough to blunder into that even figuring he could wheedle out later was amazing!

Trump is damned lucky one of them simply did not shove his "and Mexico will pay for it" constant mantra right down his throat as well.

But the point was made and Trump opened the door to it being made thinking he would come out on top in that format. The point: Welcome to divided government Donald. Hope you liked it. I doubt you did. You won't have much to say about it now whether you liked it or not.

Pence for his part looked like he was looking for a hole in the carpet to climb through.
 
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The irony here is that while he believed he was being strong and powerful, we all saw a petulant child refusing to be thwarted by adults.

Red:
Yes, there's no denying the "I'll take my ball and go home" tone of his remarks about taking the burden for the gov't shutdown if one occurs.
 
Am I the only one pissed off because I just watched the culmination of a process whereby some share of my tax dollars were completely wasted.
  • Wasted --> Whatever costs were incurred to prepare for the meeting. Staff, facilities/infrastructure, phone calls, emails, etc....all that time and effort, thus their costs for naught.
  • Wasted --> Whatever it cost to have the POTUS, VPOTUS, and Congressional Minority Leaders all in a room and getting nowhere.


Maybe it's only I who's pissed. I retired from a 30+ year-long career in management consulting whereby I and my project teams provided professional services mostly to C-level and EVP-level managers of Fortune 500 (or similar outside the US) firms and government units. The meetings I attended for the bulk of that career included several of the client's principals, the project partner I oversaw, and the project senior manager whom the project partner oversaw. My teams routinely, because that's the way implementation projects happen, held meetings with their client counterparts as well as internal meetings. One simply cannot have unproductive meetings; there's no time for that and no client wants to pay for them (nor is it right to bill them for them).

Though our public servants aren't exactly billing on a T&M schedule as I and my staff did, they are subject to the same constraints: each of us has only so much time in a day, and ineffective meetings do not make good use of that time. Thus when government officials waste resources having unproductive meetings, resources we taxpayers entrusted them to efficiently use, they're spending money wastefully just as do private sector unproductive meetings. There is a key difference however: a client can refuse to pay for an unproductive meeting, where the government's clients, you and I, cannot; whatever resources the gov't wastes, we cannot ever recover.

The Press was ushered out of the room. Whatever "meeting" took place happened after they left. So it was not a waste. It was just not what Trump hoped it would be.
 
The Press was ushered out of the room. Whatever "meeting" took place happened after they left. So it was not a waste. It was just not what Trump hoped it would be.

Did you watch the thing live on the news? The meeting ended and not a hot minute separated the end of the meeting and Chuck Schumer, outside of the WH, responding to reporters' questions.
 
Did you watch the thing live on the news? The meeting ended and not a hot minute separated the end of the meeting and Chuck Schumer, outside of the WH, responding to reporters' questions.

How do we know that was a hot minute. A simple video edit (the favored tool of MSM) and it looks like a hot minute.

Trump's post "meeting" comments clearly suggest they had a meeting after that "meeting" however short it might have been.

If the entire "meeting" was that mess on camera then nothing was intended to be accomplished today either in front off or outside of view of the cameras. So if you want to complain about the whole thing being a charade. go for it. But as soon as the cameras were invited in, whatever was intended was turned into a charade.
 
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Is that what you saw? I saw the dims want to take the conversation private, and the Donald sayin, Um, no, let's hash it out so the American people can see what's really going on, and he also owned the "shutdown without the wall", and wore it proudly.. Love him or hate him, any American can appreciate that level of honesty and transparency coming from elected leaders. I also got the impression, although, easy to miss from the uneducated eye, that Trump owns these two clowns. You can tell He knows them intimately and plays their game way better than they do..

I saw both Pelosi and Chuck trying to get out their talking points, attempting to take the high-ground, with comments like "we want a fact based discussion".. "We want a deal to not shutdown the government".. Blah blah.. I'm sure the FSM will all have their angles on tonight's newscasts, but, if anything comes of this video, for me at least, it shows that America chose the right person for the Presidency and only affirms that point!

Those two clowns are so out-matched they don't even know it, and if they didn't have a fawning, militant press Corps at their disposal, they'd both be out of jobs!


Tim-
No surprise an ardent Trump supporter saw it as a total Trump victory. I have no love for Trump or Pelosi (Schumer I can take or leave), so my assessment is not coming from an unbalanced viewpoint. What your eyes/ears apparently missed was Schumer and Pelosi calling Trump out for lying, multiple times. And when Pelosi asked that the meeting be taken privately, and Trump made his “transparency” comment, Pelosi quickly shot back that his numbers (on the paper) were wrong and other things he said weren’t true and she didn’t want to have confront him (read humiliate) publicly, Trump quickly moved on. Calling Trump honest is the most dishonest description of him. He is a pathologic liar. As for a possible shutdown, Trump got suckered into owning it. He got played like the political rube that he is by Schumer. Schumer pointed out that if Trump would accept what he did last year, the bill would pass the House and Senate easily and that of the $1.3B Trump got last year almost none had been spent, very clearly shutting down Trump’s BS for the need of more money. Now, if there is a shut down it’ll all be on Trump’s shoulders with no legitimate excuse to offer. Trump got owned.
 
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