Trump considering having US CONSUMER pay for WALL

devildavid said:

Workers do not take pay away from CEO's and CEO's do not give their "excess" pay to shareholders. They all get their pay from the corporation, which hits the bottom line, which impacts what the shareholders get. You complained about union greed, but seem incapable of recognizing management greed, which can have just as much negative impact on the corporation's bottom line.

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You imply that workers should share a company's wealth but they already do. They get a salary plus benefits. Sometimes a benefit is actually shares in the company. If a CEO made less money the company would make more profit and that profit would be distributed to the shareholders of the company. If you want to take the income inequality of a single company where a worker earns $20 per hour plus great benefits and the CEO earns $200 million per year plus bonuses, that employee is free to quit and go work for a different company that would pay him $15 per hour but the CEO only makes $200 thousand per year. That's what is great about America.

Absentglare said:

None of your arguments in this thread actually acknowledge that the cost of tariffs are higher prices for consumers. You seem completely oblivious to this economic fact.

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But you don't give a damn about higher prices in the US because of doubling business's labor costs.

gdgyva said:

People are ignorant....well happy that you believe that

In reality, in my market, 80% of my customers come in with printed out sheets telling me what I paid the factory for the car

They also know what incentives are active, what rebates are available, and what if any special financing is happening on the model they want

Now maybe that is because of my area....I live one of the richest counties in the country, and one of the most affluent

They know what they want, what they should pay, and will walk out the door and drive and extra 30 miles for $ 200 on a 40k car

I don't call that ignorant....at all....but again, maybe it is just my area, and just my customers

Somehow I don't think so....

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But you are missing the point...even if customers are not ignorant...they can count. And so can manufacturers.

Do you really think that, say, GM is going to sell their $25,000 4a-class car for $25,000 when their competition just raised their previously $25K 4a-class car up to $30K because of the tax?
Obviously, the are going to bump the price up to $25,750 MINIMUM. There is nothing wrong with that...it is not immoral...they have the right to charge whatever they want for their products. If the competition is selling their 4a-class car for $30 K (because of an import tax) - you would be an idiot to sell at the same $25 K 4a-class car when you can sell it for $25,750 or $26. If consumers want a 4a-class car...than they will pay the extra for your car.

That is my point - auto manufacturers WILL raise the price of their cars if their direct competition has to raise theirs up by 20%. They would be INCREDIBLY foolish not to take the opportunity to do so.
Why sell a car for $25K when you can sell it for $26K?


And, btw, this will go for almost all products. Sure, the Mexican-made competition will not sell. But now that their competitors have a huge price advantage, why would they not raise their prices - at least a little - to take advantage of that huge edge the Trump administration has given them?

I guarantee you - Americans will pay for the wall through higher prices and higher markups from greedy companies to take advantage of it...not the Mexicans.

Just because America puts a 20% tariff on Mexican imports...why in God's name would Mexico not turn around and put a 20% tariff on everything that Americans import to Mexico?

Also...Mexico will probably put a 20% tariff on the oil and any other raw materials they sell to America. And if America stops buying oil from them - they can just sell it to someone else.

I guarantee you that this tax will hurt American consumers more than Mexico.

American consumers will pay for the wall - not the Mexicans. And the American Elite will get richer as they rake in the higher markups for the goods Americans are forced to pay.


Now Mexico might get all wimpy and cave in...but I sincerely doubt it. They sound angry at Trump, not scared. I think they will fight him rather than cave...and the ONLY way this dumb idea of his can work is if Mexico caves and caves fast.
If they don't, American consumers WILL end up paying for the wall through higher prices.

gdgyva said:

Because I can't think of one, just one product that comes from Mexico, that we can't get from somewhere else

Will we have a few less choices in some things? Yes

Does that mean higher prices? I don't think so

I don't see how you get higher prices if US consumers have the same basic items coming from other sources without the tariff

I just don't get your train of thought....makes no sense to me

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We buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of production from Mexico because they are the best deal. We can buy those things elsewhere but they'll cost more.

Then there's the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of production Mexico buys from us. That would be threatened by a predictable retaliatory tariff.

At the end of the day, your inability to imagine how being forced to pay more for the same product results in having to spend more for the same product is irrelevant.

reinoe said:

Oh wow, I thougth e-verify was required.

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It's available, but not required. Only required for government contracts.

Besides, who enforces it? Even if required, if there is nobody who looks, nobody is found. The change of administration might change this aspect of it.

poweRob said:

Nope. They tried to make it a law in Arizona and the employers revolted.

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I say make it mandatory, and if the employers still revolt... Punish them.

Moderate Right said:

But you don't give a damn about higher prices in the US because of doubling business's labor costs.

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The cost of labor at a minimum wage establishment is probably just a few percent, and almost all jobs are above the minimum wage.

Adding a 35% cost increase to everything we buy would cripple our economy overnight.

Absentglare said:

The cost of labor at a minimum wage establishment is probably just a few percent, and almost all jobs are above the minimum wage.

Adding a 35% cost increase to everything we buy would cripple our economy overnight.

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Everything we buy does not come from Mexico.

George50 said:

A couple of years ago the senate came up with a bipartisan immigration bill that passed 68 to 32 an incredible margin in this political climate. It would have resolved this problem with a solution that was supported by the vast majority of the legislators and the public. What happened, the HARD RIGHT in the house squawked and the speaker did not allow it to come to a vote even though he knew it would easily pass because he was afraid of the group that eventually ousted him.

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Yes, the Amnesty bill.

No way it was going to pass in the republican house. The senate was democrat controlled.

Look what happened in the next election... How many seats did the democrats lost when that became an election issue... The public didn't want more amnesty. It failed in the 80's and nobody wants a repeat.

trblmkr said:

Let me ask you something.
In the late 60's, in northern CA, at the age of 14, I rode by my bike to farms after school. I picked prunes off the ground, I picked apples from the trees and picked just about anything I could to make a nickle picking. I did it next to other poor people and immigrants. Will your son or daughter go into the fields and bust their ass to pick something to keep food on the table?
I don't think you have a clue where this country came from and what made it great. But unfortunately, you will likely have a say in how it dies.
I know, a bit melodramatic. Felt good though.

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Glad that your presumptuous post allows you to feel better.

Do you think 12-20 million illegals living in the United States are in the fields picking apples? Perhaps you don't have a clue where this country came from. I know my roots in this country go back to 1737 when my ancestral grandfather settled in North Carolina, having come from Scotland. I know my roots in this State go back to my Great Great Grandfather who settled in Southern California in 1872.

I know that 50 years ago, millions of illegal aliens did not live in the United States. I know that migrant farm workers from Mexico came north to follow the harvest, and then returned home to their families.

That changed didn't it? Today, they cost US taxpayers $100+ billion per year. They pull $25 billion out of the economy and send it elsewhere. Because a certain political party sees opportunity in them as a group, they are pandered to, with laws that US citizens are held accountable to, ignored for them.

On top of that, extremely poor trade negotiators created NAFTA, which has stripped jobs from the US, and sent them to Mexico. Remember when Ross Perot I believe said he heard a giant sucking sound from Mexico when NAFTA was being negotiated.

So I would ask you set aside the "poor people and immigrants" appeal to emotion and consider the impact illegal aliens have had on legal residents who are equally poor, and confused why they are being ignored in order to pander to illegal residents who don't care a thing about this country.

If we keep not caring about illegal aliens, and claim more cities as sanctuary cities...

How long will it be before China ships over 500 million of their people, and take over the USA by vote?

PeteEU said:

And there it came... the classic oh **** he is right, so lets use the nationalistic xenophobic attack..

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What are you right about ? You need to correct Denmark Taxation problems , who the hell pays 180% TAX on an automobile ? What's rotten in Denmark a phase they earned !:lol:

DA60 said:

But you are missing the point...even if customers are not ignorant...they can count. And so can manufacturers.

Do you really think that, say, GM is going to sell their $25,000 4a-class car for $25,000 when their competition just raised their previously $25K 4a-class car up to $30K because of the tax?
Obviously, the are going to bump the price up to $25,750 MINIMUM. There is nothing wrong with that...it is not immoral...they have the right to charge whatever they want for their products. If the competition is selling their 4a-class car for $30 K (because of an import tax) - you would be an idiot to sell at the same $25 K 4a-class car when you can sell it for $25,750 or $26. If consumers want a 4a-class car...than they will pay the extra for your car.

That is my point - auto manufacturers WILL raise the price of their cars if their direct competition has to raise theirs up by 20%. They would be INCREDIBLY foolish not to take the opportunity to do so.
Why sell a car for $25K when you can sell it for $26K?


And, btw, this will go for almost all products. Sure, the Mexican-made competition will not sell. But now that their competitors have a huge price advantage, why would they not raise their prices - at least a little - to take advantage of that huge edge the Trump administration has given them?

I guarantee you - Americans will pay for the wall through higher prices and higher markups from greedy companies to take advantage of it...not the Mexicans.

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There are hundreds of products on the market

And products that come in from a lot of countries

and you think because 12 or so of those hundreds prices are rising, and probably won't even be sold here anymore, the rest of the models will suddenly rise in price?

Won't they just be taken off the shelf?

And if there is a market elsewhere, they will try and sell them there

I don't see the big price increase you guys do....consumers here are fairly smart

And way too many publications watch the auto companies....

I just don't see it

DA60 said:

But you are missing the point...even if customers are not ignorant...they can count. And so can manufacturers.

Do you really think that, say, GM is going to sell their $25,000 4a-class car for $25,000 when their competition just raised their previously $25K 4a-class car up to $30K because of the tax?
Obviously, the are going to bump the price up to $25,750 MINIMUM. There is nothing wrong with that...it is not immoral...they have the right to charge whatever they want for their products. If the competition is selling their 4a-class car for $30 K (because of an import tax) - you would be an idiot to sell at the same $25 K 4a-class car when you can sell it for $25,750 or $26. If consumers want a 4a-class car...than they will pay the extra for your car.

That is my point - auto manufacturers WILL raise the price of their cars if their direct competition has to raise theirs up by 20%. They would be INCREDIBLY foolish not to take the opportunity to do so.
Why sell a car for $25K when you can sell it for $26K?


And, btw, this will go for almost all products. Sure, the Mexican-made competition will not sell. But now that their competitors have a huge price advantage, why would they not raise their prices - at least a little - to take advantage of that huge edge the Trump administration has given them?

I guarantee you - Americans will pay for the wall through higher prices and higher markups from greedy companies to take advantage of it...not the Mexicans.

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That 30k car won't come here....it will no longer be on the shelves as an offered product

So there is no comparison that you speak of

That 30k car will be retooled for lesser safety measures, and either sold elsewhere much cheaper, or scrapped

The 25k car in the US still has to compete with the other 8 other exact models that consumers compare it to

So now the consumers have 9 choices, not 10 in that one class of car

George50 said:

Here we go! Trump is considering an import tax on goods from Mexico to pay for the wall. He has long made it sound like import taxes will stick it to China and Mexico. That is just plain silly, it is a TAX that hits 350 million US lower and middle class consumers and is irrelevant to Trump and his billionaire friends. Who is going to pay for the wall? YOU are going to pay for the wall!



Trump's 20 percent tax on Mexican imports would force U.S. consumers to pay for border wall | Politics | Dallas News

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350 million you say ? Well is about time the other 49% pay some taxes ! You bitch about $15 an hour minimum wage but care less about exploiting others that make $3 an hour why is that ? You want a clean environment but China pollutes everything with a carbon footprint that 60 times ours . How many sides of this issues can you occupy in a year ? :roll:

Visbek said:

1st offence: $250 - $2000 per employee
2nd offence: $2000 - $5000 per employee
3rd offence: $3000 - $10000 per employee, plus additional fines, plus possible jail time

Plus, employer can get hit with RICO charges

Plus, the employee can get busted for identity theft, and then deported

The law isn't the problem.

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Sure it is

That law just doesn't have enough teeth in it

It needs to be 25k per person 1st offense

250K 2nd offense

And your business is confiscated and sold at auction for a third infraction

We need to give employers a system that they can use....to where if they use the system, it is on the Feds, and states

That will solve the business side

Then we need to work on the visa issue for those who want to come....make it a little easier to begin the dream

gdgyva said:

There are hundreds of products on the market

And products that come in from a lot of countries

and you think because 12 or so of those hundreds prices are rising, and probably won't even be sold here anymore, the rest of the models will suddenly rise in price?

Won't they just be taken off the shelf?

And if there is a market elsewhere, they will try and sell them there

I don't see the big price increase you guys do....consumers here are fairly smart

And way too many publications watch the auto companies....

I just don't see it

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Yeah. What on Earth happened to the liberal movement of only buying products made in America to support unions, even if that meant Americans paying higher prices?

Mac77 said:

Again, you DON'T WANT mexico to pay for the wall

and you want to score a political gotcha against trump if he does not do what you don't want him to do

Huh?

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1) I don't want the wall. ITs a harmful waste of a lot of money.

2) I don't want Mexico to pay for it. It would throw our second largest trading partner into economic chaos!

Moderate Right said:

Yeah. What on Earth happened to the liberal movement of only buying products made in America to support unions, even if that meant Americans paying higher prices?

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That is what I really don't get.

They hypocrisy of it all. It's as if the liberals would rather pay 30% less for a toothbrush, than support union workers in our country.

Lord of Planar said:

That is what I really don't get.

They hypocrisy of it all. It's as if the liberals would rather pay 30% less for a toothbrush, than support union workers in our country.

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This is similar to what has happened with Walmarts before. The liberal governments beg Walmart to come into their slums to offer cheaper goods and jobs to their citizens and then demand that Walmart pay a "living wage" and then Walmart tells them to go shove it.

Moderate Right said:

This is similar to what has happened with Walmarts before. The liberal governments beg Walmart to come into their slums to offer cheaper goods and jobs to their citizens and then demand that Walmart pay a "living wage" and then Walmart tells them to go shove it.

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I call those types "libtards" and "demonrats."

Moderate Right said:

Everything we buy does not come from Mexico.

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Mexico isn't the only country he's threatened.

Lord of Planar said:

That is what I really don't get.

They hypocrisy of it all. It's as if the liberals would rather pay 30% less for a toothbrush, than support union workers in our country.

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I've had plenty of conservatives here on DP tell me directly that I'm financially dumb* because I'm willing to pay a bit more for an American product than an import (presuming all other factors are equal).

I also don't recall any of this conservative concern for the union worker.

I wonder how many of those conservatives are the same people in this thread, but are being hypocrites simply because now it's them and Trump, and not Obama and 'them'? :shrug:

*- A few years ago in threads regarding "buying American", in general.

Socrates1 said:

What are you right about ? You need to correct Denmark Taxation problems , who the hell pays 180% TAX on an automobile ? What's rotten in Denmark a phase they earned !:lol:

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Hey it use to be 210%!