Trump Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross says he doesn't 'understand' ...

[Unitedwestand13]

Is that so? Can you point to any impact other than an overflowing garbage can in a national park?

800,000 people without paychecks who are unable to afford basic necessities.

Food inspectors and tsa agents calling sick instead of being working without pay

Commercial aviation is facing possible general strikes.

40 million people who depend on the services of SNAP who face further calamity when’s funding for the program grinds to a halt.

 

[JasperL]

Is that so? Can you point to any impact other than an overflowing garbage can in a national park?

You did it! Congratulations! A haul of stupid in a single thread. I had confidence but it's good to see you come through with such flying colors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...s-will-go-unfulfilled/?utm_term=.a213097837b6

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/us/politics/courts-money-government-shutdown.html

FWIW, I'm fine actually if we sent the Secret Service home for the duration, sending TSA home grounding almost all air travel in the United States, and close the borders entirely, or leave them entirely open, and shutter the FBI and prosecutors and Coast Guard, and shut down the IRS and the park service and the federal court system, and all the rest. What I'm not dumb enough to believe is we can permanently fire all those people without impacting the country.

I'll just add that your "opinion" on this is why government shut downs are so stupid and dangerous. All the public facing work is deemed essential and so the workers are forced to do their jobs without paychecks, so ignorant people all across the country can say, See! We don't need government!!

So either pay them for working, or, you know, SHUT THE AGENCIES DOWN. Leave POTUS and his family unprotected - fine with me if he wants to shut down the government. Trump can hire his own body guards. Same with the border - either put barriers up that allow NO traffic, NO people, NO trucks or open them up to everyone. Shut down IRS, so no one is there to process returns, and collect taxes. But this pretend crap, it's a shut down except for the stuff the public will notice IMMEDIATELY, is bull****.

ONE day with all flights grounded and you grind business, tourism, in the U.S. to a standstill. Do that for 30 days and you've got impeachment lined up on a platter. So let's either do this right or don't. I'm sick of the pretend - it feeds ignorance.

 

[Napoleon]

You did it! Congratulations! A haul of stupid in a single thread. I had confidence but it's good to see you come through with such flying colors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...s-will-go-unfulfilled/?utm_term=.a213097837b6

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/us/politics/courts-money-government-shutdown.html

FWIW, I'm fine actually if we sent the Secret Service home for the duration, sending TSA home grounding almost all air travel in the United States, and close the borders entirely, or leave them entirely open, and shutter the FBI and prosecutors and Coast Guard, and shut down the IRS and the park service and the federal court system, and all the rest. What I'm not dumb enough to believe is we can permanently fire all those people without impacting the country.

That’s a whole lot of stupid. What you are describing are budgetary issues not personnel issues. 800,000 people were furloughed precicely because they’re non-essential. Essential personnel are not furloughed which is how the government continues to operate during a shutdown. So why bring them back at all? Why should we pay for 800,000 non-essential workers?

 

[Xelor]

For once, I am speechless. Truly, I don't know where to start a response to what Ross had to say, so wrong on so many levels is the thinking that moved him to make the remarks he did. Never in my life have I seen or heard anyone of means make such an "out of touch" comment!

I'll just post this:



Note: Ted Cruz isn't the reason I posted that video.

 

[Mithros]

Well, these folks have been furloughed for some time now and the government is huming along just fine without them.

That’s because they’re still working... they’re just not getting paid. All air traffic in the US would effectively stop if they stopped coming into work. That’s like 10% of the US GDP....gone in an instant.

You’re setting record highs on the dunning kruger curve.

 

[JasperL]

That’s a whole lot of stupid. What you are describing are budgetary issues not personnel issues. 800,000 people were furloughed precicely because they’re non-essential. Essential personnel are not furloughed which is how the government continues to operate during a shutdown. So why bring them back at all? Why should we pay for 800,000 non-essential workers?

800,000 people weren't furloughed.

It's a glut of stupid comments! Next up is a double hat trick! I'm rooting for you!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/government-shutdown-2018-employees-work-without-pay/

 

[Napoleon]

That’s because they’re still working... they’re just not getting paid. All air traffic in the US would effectively stop if they stopped coming into work. That’s like 10% of the US GDP....gone in an instant.

You’re setting record highs on the dunning kruger curve.

No, that’s not how it works. The federal government employs 2.1 million civilian workers. During a shutdown, it keeps the people it needs to keep the government running and furloughs the rest. In this case, the government has kept 1.3 million workers. Those are the people still working. Those who have been furloughed aren’t doing anything.

 

[JasperL]

That’s because they’re still working... they’re just not getting paid. All air traffic in the US would effectively stop if they stopped coming into work. That’s like 10% of the US GDP....gone in an instant.

You’re setting record highs on the dunning kruger curve.

That's perfect. I'll post the curve so what you're talking about is clear. We're near the top of the mountain I think:

 

[Mithros]

No, that’s not how it works. The federal government employs 2.1 million civilian workers. During a shutdown, it keeps the people it needs to keep the government running and furloughs the rest. In this case, the government has kept 1.3 million workers. Those are the people still working. Those who have been furloughed aren’t doing anything.

Hypothetically... what would be your opinion of the government mandating that certain government workers come to work without pay?

 

[JasperL]

No, that’s not how it works. The federal government employs 2.1 million civilian workers. During a shutdown, it keeps the people it needs to keep the government running and furloughs the rest. In this case, the government has kept 1.3 million workers. Those are the people still working. Those who have been furloughed aren’t doing anything.

Congrats - the double hat trick! Next up - haul trick

The 1.3 million work for agencies that HAVE BEEN FUNDED. They're working, getting paid, not affected. 800,000 people work in the affected agencies, and none of them are getting paid. About a million or more private contractors are funded by the affected agencies. They're also not getting paid.

Of those who aren't getting paid, we started off furloughing nearly all of them other than people for whom we can't function smoothly without for even a day - like those involved in air travel. ONE DAY of no flights is an economic disaster, so they're forced to work without pay from day 1. Secret service hasn't been furloughed, obviously, and we still have workers on the border. As we have gone along, Trump has had to expand the number pulled off furlough and back to work by 10s of thousands and that will go UP as we go along, because, no f'ing kidding, it's one thing for a group of workers to miss a day or a week, but after a month stuff quits working, like courts, IRS, FBI, etc. No one working on the border, for the courts, at IRS, FBI, Secret Service, Agriculture, and more are getting paid, but many are forced to work WITHOUT PAY so that people like you can pretend their jobs aren't worth doing, and make ignorant comments about them and what they do.

So there are three categories of federal workers and related private contractors

1) Those working for agencies fully funded before the shutdown. They're doing business as usual, and getting paid, about 1.3 million non-military federal employees are in this group.
2) Furloughed workers, who aren't working and not getting paid - something like 400,000 according to an old article. Far fewer now I'm sure.
3) Workers forced to work their normal jobs, but WITHOUT PAY. Well over half the workers in affected agencies, and growing rapidly as this continues.

The total in categories 2) and 3) is roughly 800k (well over half are working - deemed "essential" which means the public will notice them not working almost immediately). But about a million or more private contractors funded by affected agencies are also either furloughed or also forced to work without pay.

 

[Napoleon]

Hypothetically... what would be your opinion of the government mandating that certain government workers come to work without pay?

No opinions necessary. People understand that is a risk of federal employment and they have to be willing to accept that risk to take the job. There’s nothing more to say. Now, if you were to ask my opinion on whether or not financially unstable people should be taking jobs with an annual risk of that happening since the 80s then I’d say they shouldn’t.

 

[Napoleon]

Congrats - the double hat trick! Next up - haul trick

The 1.3 million work for agencies that HAVE BEEN FUNDED. They're working, getting paid, not affected. 800,000 people work in the affected agencies, and none of them are getting paid. About a million or more private contractors are funded by the affected agencies. They're also not getting paid.

Of those who aren't getting paid, we started off furloughing nearly all of them other than people for whom we can't function smoothly without for even a day - like those involved in air travel. ONE DAY of no flights is an economic disaster, so they're forced to work without pay from day 1. Secret service hasn't been furloughed, obviously, and we still have workers on the border. As we have gone along, Trump has had to expand the number pulled off furlough and back to work by 10s of thousands and that will go UP as we go along, because, no f'ing kidding, it's one thing for a group of workers to miss a day or a week, but after a month stuff quits working, like courts, IRS, FBI, etc. No one working on the border, for the courts, at IRS, FBI, Secret Service, Agriculture, and more are getting paid, but many are forced to work WITHOUT PAY so that people like you can pretend their jobs aren't worth doing, and make ignorant comments about them and what they do.

I guess reading comprehension isn’t your thing. You weren’t asked to justify the employment of people still working. You were asked to justify the employment of furloughed employees. Stuff stops working because the agency budget dries up not for lack of bodies in chairs to do the paperwork.

 

[bongsaway]

Average pay for federal employee ranges from $63,000-$112,000. 300,000 of them are paid in excess of $100,000 annually. So I would like to know why it is that millions of people live on much less but these people can’t feed themselves between paychecks.

I'm starting to wonder if there is an accurate number at all. I just looked at four different websites and all four gave different numbers. I do however tend to believe the people I'm seeing on television rather than on the websites i'm searching.

 

[JasperL]

I guess reading comprehension isn’t your thing. You weren’t asked to justify the employment of people still working. You were asked to justify the employment of furloughed employees. Stuff stops working because the agency budget dries up not for lack of bodies in chairs to do the paperwork.

But you don't understand ANYTHING about who they are or how many there are of them or what they do. You didn't understand that 1.3 million federal employees were on the job and getting paid, because their agencies were FUNDED.

There are also not now and there have never been 800,000 "furloughed" employees. Roughly half of that number never missed a day of work - they just had to work WITHOUT PAY. Trump has had to expand that number by 10s of thousands already, which should surprise no one who understands the simple concept of "necessary work that can be delayed a day or a week but not a month." That number will grow each week as stuff starts breaking and powerful people inconvenienced too much.

So you know nothing and are determined to demonstrate it with every post - this is the haul trick.

 

[Saladin4]

800,000 people without paychecks who are unable to afford basic necessities.

Food inspectors and tsa agents calling sick instead of being working without pay

Commercial aviation is facing possible general strikes.

40 million people who depend on the services of SNAP who face further calamity when’s funding for the program grinds to a halt.

These ignorant trump ass kissers seem to forget about the members of the US Coast Guard...Going without pay but still going out daily to serve and respond.....Meanwhile these trump ass kissers sit on their fat ass all day

 

[yankintx]

Because, like a whole lot of people in the US (and Canada) they are living from paycheque to paycheque in the lifestyle that the advertising (and social pressure) says that they "should" be living in.

You might find

Federal employee salaries lag by average of 31 percent, pay group reports
​

interesting.

Would you like to be a bit more specific than "The average pay for federal employees is $87,500 (+/-28%).".

PS - When you do provide that average, please ensure that you don't simply take the highest pay, add it to the lowest pay, and divide by two. In order to arrive at the average (mean) pay, you have to multiply each pay rate by the number of people earning that pay rate, then add all of those numbers together, and then divide by the total number of people involved. As an example, if there are 100 people with 99 of them earning $50,000 and 1 of them earning $5,000,000 the average (mean) earnings are NOT $2,502,500 they are, in fact $99,500 (and even more telling the "modal income" is $50,000.

When I retired from the AF I went to work for the VA, making 35k a year. Many other VA employees were earning less than that including housekeeping, ground keeping, and kitchen staff. Lucky for me I had some skills I could use overseas to escape the low pay the Feds dole out. You are correct, Federal pay lags behind the private sector.

I still have friends who work for the VA, some on 40k a year, and right now they don't give a fudge about the wall, they want the paycheck they are earning.

 

[tres borrachos]

Yeah, the lack of self awareness of these assholes is something to behold. Don Jr.'s wife made a similar comment. It's true if you're wealthy and need money, there's always a bank ready to extend your line of credit a bit against your $100s of millions in assets. Or in the case of Trump for his entire adult life through his dad's death, and his kids, no need for that - just ask daddy for a little advance. Doesn't mean that's how it works for the proles.

That was actually Eric's wife. The dumb son. Don Junior's wife kicked his ass out.

 

[Napoleon]

But you don't understand ANYTHING about who they are or how many there are of them or what they do. You didn't understand that 1.3 million federal employees were on the job and getting paid, because their agencies were FUNDED.

There are also not now and there have never been 800,000 "furloughed" employees. Roughly half of that number never missed a day of work - they just had to work WITHOUT PAY. Trump has had to expand that number by 10s of thousands already, which should surprise no one who understands the simple concept of "necessary work that can be delayed a day or a week but not a month." That number will grow each week as stuff starts breaking and powerful people inconvenienced too much.

So you know nothing and are determined to demonstrate it with every post - this is the haul trick.

So you can’t justify the employment of furloughed employees. That’s all you had to say.

 

[JustHanging]

From ABC News

Trump Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross says he doesn't 'understand' why federal workers lining up at food banks
​

As the partial government shutdown stretches into day 34 and 800,000 federal workers are set to start missing their second paycheck starting Friday, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross is downplaying the effects on government employees and the overall economy.

Asked in an interview with CNBC Thursday about workers who have been seen lining up at food banks and homeless shelters, Ross, a multi-millionaire, appeared to advise them to take on new debt.

"Well, I know they are and I don't really quite understand why,” Ross said. “Because as I mentioned before, they – the obligations that they would undertake, say, borrowing from a bank or a credit union, are in effect federally guaranteed."

"So the 30 days of pay that some people will be out, there's no real reason why they shouldn't be able to get a loan against it," Ross added.

COMMENT:-

"Hey, if their MasterCard is maxed out, they can always put the stuff on VISA.", says Wilbur ("Marie Antoinette") Ross, "I mean they can always just write a cheque like I do - right.".

​

Doesn't Mr. Ross understand that there are additional costs associated with buying stuff on credit? Is Mr. Ross proposing that the US government should PAY those additional costs so that their workers break even? (That was what is known as a "Rhetorical Question" to which the answer is "Fat chance!!!".)

PS - Marie Antoinette did NOT say "Let them eat cake." in response to being told that the people had no bread. What she did say was "Let them eat the small loaves" when told that the people had no (regular sized loaves of) bread. Of course the degree of detachment from reality in both cases is just about the same (and the "Let them eat cake." line sells more advertising space.)
​

Yay! The leader of the most powerful nation in the world, a man who accurately represents 1/3 of the population, thinks it's appropriate to throw a temper tantrum, and hold the financial lives of millions of people hostage, to get what he wants. And he has flunkies at the highest positions in the land who think this a good idea. Christ, a Commerce Secretary no less, who is apparently clueless about banking.

Quite the country.

Quite the country.

 

[SCrider]

Not only are conservatives cheering Trump on for taking hostages and issuing demands, they are now attacking the hostages for being hostages.

That's some real principled compassionate behavior. Fits with "I don't like people who get captured"

:roll:

Yes, Trump and his supporters on this are anti American scum.

 

[JasperL]

That was actually Eric's wife. The dumb son. Don Junior's wife kicked his ass out.

LOL, but I think you mean the "dumber" son. It's splitting hairs, I know, but an important distinction. eace

 

[tres borrachos]

LOL, but I think you mean the "dumber" son. It's splitting hairs, I know, but an important distinction. eace

You are correct. :lol:

 

[HumblePi]

He's just one more ignorant asshole billionaire that are completely out of touch and could care less about the people in this country. They're sick opportunists that have dirt on their hands and that includes that SOB, Trump and his family. I hope they all get locked up.

Wilbur Ross wears custom made $500 hand stitched velvet slippers instead of shoes. They even have the insignia of the U.S. Dept of Commerce stamped right inside of them. Pieces of ****, all of them. People have no gas for their cars or food and medicine and he 'just can't understand why'. What a SOB!

 

[JasperL]

So you can’t justify the employment of furloughed employees. That’s all you had to say.

Which furloughed employees? For it to be useful, you'd have to go department by department, job by job. For example, while shut down IRS has ceased audits. Do you think a "voluntary" tax system like our own that allows most of us to self report income and pay tax on what we report, will work without audits to enforce compliance, catch tax cheats, levy penalties on criminal tax cheats? If the IRS quits doing audits, why should anyone pay their taxes? Do you think that's sustainable long term? Why would anyone believe that?

So there's a big group of furloughed employees that's easy to justify employing after the shut down ends.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

LOL, but I think you mean the "dumber" son. It's splitting hairs, I know, but an important distinction. eace

Shouldn't that be "splitting heirs"?