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Trump and Pelosi/ The Wall and another Shutdown

I can see lower courts with democrat appointee judges trying to force Trump to rubber stamp Pelosi's nonsense, but I cannot see the Supreme Court agreeing with that nonsense.

The courts are not going to get involved in whatever Bill passes or does not pass out of this negotiation. There is no National Emergency. It is simply an end run around Article 1 of the Constitution and is thus a Constitutional issue and frankly Trump is on very shaky ground there and specifically with the SC.

Trump's inability to compel Congress to fund his fantasy Wall is not a National Emergency.
 
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They aren't. And he isn't subservient to them. They have their powers...he has his.
In reality, the Legislative branch is the most powerful, as Trump is beginning to be shown. :spank: :thumbs:
 
President Trump is NOT going to shut down the government again.

He has learned his lesson: Don't mess with Queen Nancy.

He realized, too, that when the air controllers called in "sick," he would get the blame in case of any tragedies.

That's why the Dems don't fear him: He talks too much and often backs down. A president's most potent weapon is for his critics to realize that s/he is a person of his/her word. The Dems have to be made to shake in their boots.
 
When Congress is abdicating their responsibility to the people in favor of political opposition to the President, the President is obligated to tell them to piss up a rope.

Any predictions on how the courts will weigh in on this argument?
 
They aren't. And he isn't subservient to them. They have their powers...he has his.

Like the power to control appropriations?
 
Any predictions on how the courts will weigh in on this argument?

What courts?

Oh...wait...you think someone is going to sue Trump, right? Let me know when that happens, okay?
 
In reality, the Legislative branch is the most powerful, as Trump is beginning to be shown. :spank: :thumbs:

LOL!!

"We are co-equal...but some of us are MORE co-equal than others."
 

LOL!!

Either my comment went right over your head because you have never read "Animal Farm"...or you are a true, blue liberal/progressive/socialist/communist.

You tell me which is the case.
 
When Congress is abdicating their responsibility to the people in favor of political opposition to the President, the President is obligated to tell them to piss up a rope.

Actually, the President is "obligated" to spend only what Congress appropriates. It's part of that separation of powers thing, checks and balances.
 
LOL!!

Either my comment went right over your head because you have never read "Animal Farm"...or you are a true, blue liberal/progressive/socialist/communist.

You tell me which is the case.
I have read Animal Farm. Ever heard of sarcasm?
 
What courts?

Oh...wait...you think someone is going to sue Trump, right? Let me know when that happens, okay?

I'm guessing Pelosi is not intimidated by Trump given the thrashing she has already provided and will happily take the administration to court.
 
I'm guessing Pelosi is not intimidated by Trump given the thrashing she has already provided and will happily take the administration to court.

Why should she take him to court? After all, according to you she already has more power than he does. She can just use the provisions in the National Emergencies Act to stop him...right?

Oh...wait...maybe she DOESN'T have more power than Trump.

Whoops!!
 
Actually, the President is "obligated" to spend only what Congress appropriates. It's part of that separation of powers thing, checks and balances.

That's exactly what Trump will do...spend what Congress has appropriated...when he builds his wall.
 
That's exactly what Trump will do...spend what Congress has appropriated...when he builds his wall.

Oh, so he's going to pay for it himself. I'm good with that! Best of luck to him.

Maybe the grifter who did the Build the Wall campaign earlier can help him out. I think he raised $20 million of the $5,700 million Trump wants, so just a little further and they'll get there! MAGA!
 
Oh, so he's going to pay for it himself. I'm good with that! Best of luck to him.

Maybe the grifter who did the Build the Wall campaign earlier can help him out. I think he raised $20 million of the $5,700 million Trump wants, so just a little further and they'll get there! MAGA!

For the life of me, I cannot understand the mentality of a person who reads words...but who refuses to to respond to the meaning of what they read.

Moving on...
 
Regardless, Trump won't shut it down again. He learned his lesson, and paid the price.

He'll either accept Pelosi's offer and call it "victory", or he'll capitulate and tie it up in the courts via an emergency action.

While the road is paved with the corpses of predictions when it comes to Trump, I agree with this.
 
Do you think Trump cares about the GOP party? Or inflicting pain on people?

exactly. Trump is not a normal person. he was making $3,000,000 at age three. he's never done manual labor. he's the spoiled rich kid that your parents talked about.
 
For the life of me, I cannot understand the mentality of a person who reads words...but who refuses to to respond to the meaning of what they read.

Moving on...

The amount appropriated for the Great Wall of Trump is $0.00 so far. So, he can spend the $0 I guess, but otherwise, where's the money going to come from then? Is there this slush fund of $6 billion sitting over on the Pentagon budget that he can draw down to $0?

Just as an aside, it never ceases to amaze me how the GOP in Congress are so willing to cede power to the executive branch.
 
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The amount appropriated for the Great Wall of Trump is $0.00 so far. So, he can spend the $0 I guess, but otherwise, where's the money going to come from then? Is there this slush fund of $6 billion sitting over on the Pentagon budget that he can draw down to $0?

Just as an aside, it never ceases to amaze me how the GOP in Congress are so willing to cede power to the executive branch.

Trump has lots of sources for a lot of money.

Here's an article that talks about one source.

https://www.conservativereview.com/...an-build-the-wall-without-national-emergency/

Anyway, this is what happens when someone actually starts thinking instead of succumbing to hyperbole and bias. You should try it.
 
Trump has lots of sources for a lot of money.

Here's an article that talks about one source.

https://www.conservativereview.com/...an-build-the-wall-without-national-emergency/

Anyway, this is what happens when someone actually starts thinking instead of succumbing to hyperbole and bias. You should try it.

That's funny, in an ironic way.

No, that article doesn't discuss any 'source' for 'the money.' What it establishes is the AUTHORITY to build stuff, but building stuff costs MONEY, $6 BILLION in this case, and Congress appropriates spending.

So what Trump can spend is whatever is in the budget for building stuff and other tasks under that section of law. He cannot defund a few fighter jets and navy ships and transfer the funds to the Wall, or start raiding other agencies, like funding for Medicaid and EBT, and use those funds for the Wall. And there is no "Presidential discretionary pot of money to spend on whatever he likes" in the U.S. budget, for the Pentagon or anything else.

So where is the money coming from?

What happens when you actually start thinking about the problem, and when you understand how budgeting works, you will find out that the authority to build roads and barriers does him no good if funds aren't appropriated for building roads and barriers. So what part of the DoD budget for roads and barriers and other projects has a spare $6 billion lying around, just waiting on a project?
 
That's funny, in an ironic way.

No, that article doesn't discuss any 'source' for 'the money.' What it establishes is the AUTHORITY to build stuff, but building stuff costs MONEY, $6 BILLION in this case, and Congress appropriates spending.

So what Trump can spend is whatever is in the budget for building stuff and other tasks under that section of law. He cannot defund a few fighter jets and navy ships and transfer the funds to the Wall, or start raiding other agencies, like funding for Medicaid and EBT, and use those funds for the Wall. And there is no "Presidential discretionary pot of money to spend on whatever he likes" in the U.S. budget, for the Pentagon or anything else.

So where is the money coming from?

What happens when you actually start thinking about the problem, and when you understand how budgeting works, you will find out that the authority to build roads and barriers does him no good if funds aren't appropriated for building roads and barriers. So what part of the DoD budget for roads and barriers and other projects has a spare $6 billion lying around, just waiting on a project?

While DonDon and some of his following have tried to confuse this issue all to heck, Trump has no money appropriated for new Wall or new Border Barrier. He has money from the FY18 budget for repairing and refurbishing and filling gaps in some cases. None of that is new Wall funding. It is funding that has its genesis in the 2006 Border Fence Act. In fact, Trump is restricted to fencing solutions like Bollard for that refurbishment and gap filling or exactly what is already in place if they want to repair what is there.

Trump cannot install solid construction Wall for this purpose whether he wants to or not. Trump has alternately said they were already in construction on new Wall and then said they were not in construction on new Wall. The former is not correct. The latter is.

Repeat, Trump and his administration (DHS/CBP) has no funding for new Wall or any new Border Barrier at this point. He can yammer about already being in construction till he is blue in the face or till his combover flops, whichever comes first. He is when discussing the activity in terms of new Wall construction, once again LYING through his teeth.
 
While DonDon and some of his following have tried to confuse this issue all to heck, Trump has no money appropriated for new Wall or new Border Barrier. He has money from the FY18 budget for repairing and refurbishing and filling gaps in some cases. None of that is new Wall funding. It is funding that has its genesis in the 2006 Border Fence Act. In fact, Trump is restricted to fencing solutions like Bollard for that refurbishment and gap filling or exactly what is already in place if they want to repair what is there.

Trump cannot install solid construction Wall for this purpose whether he wants to or not. Trump has alternately said they were already in construction on new Wall and then said they were not in construction on new Wall. The former is not correct. The latter is.

Repeat, Trump and his administration (DHS/CBP) has no funding for new Wall or any new Border Barrier at this point. He can yammer about already being in construction till he is blue in the face or till his combover flops, whichever comes first. He is when discussing the activity in terms of new Wall construction, once again LYING through his teeth.

I have read sometimes reliable people say that the DoD has a 'construction' budget (for lack of a better term) and that it's possible some of those funds aren't officially committed and it's possible he can raid, aka zero out, other projects on the DoD construction drawing board and fund some part of the Wall with those uncommitted (officially) funds. But I cannot find any source that can tell us what that amount is, or what he'd be defunding if he does it. Without knowing that, it's hard to know who he'd be screwing and how much blowback he'll get from Congress when/if he chooses that route, but he will be screwing someone, or lots of them, who are relying on budgeted funds that Trump will effectively draw a line through - $6 billion worth. That's a lot of schools, health facilities, flood control projects in Congressional districts, etc. Dozens or hundreds of projects - going to $0.

What some right wing hacks have argued is essentially that the DoD budget is Trump's piggy bank and he can shift the funds around at his discretion. That appears to be a minority view, and surely would be met with a lawsuit within hours or days of his announced decision.

We'll see I guess. I'll just repeat that it's pretty incredible how willingly Congress (at least the GOP) seems to be in gutting their appropriations authority and power, to serve the whims of Trump.
 
I have read sometimes reliable people say that the DoD has a 'construction' budget (for lack of a better term) and that it's possible some of those funds aren't officially committed and it's possible he can raid, aka zero out, other projects on the DoD construction drawing board and fund some part of the Wall with those uncommitted (officially) funds. But I cannot find any source that can tell us what that amount is, or what he'd be defunding if he does it. Without knowing that, it's hard to know who he'd be screwing and how much blowback he'll get from Congress when/if he chooses that route, but he will be screwing someone, or lots of them, who are relying on budgeted funds that Trump will effectively draw a line through - $6 billion worth. That's a lot of schools, health facilities, flood control projects in Congressional districts, etc. Dozens or hundreds of projects - going to $0.

What some right wing hacks have argued is essentially that the DoD budget is Trump's piggy bank and he can shift the funds around at his discretion. That appears to be a minority view, and surely would be met with a lawsuit within hours or days of his announced decision.

We'll see I guess. I'll just repeat that it's pretty incredible how willingly Congress (at least the GOP) seems to be in gutting their appropriations authority and power, to serve the whims of Trump.

That is the raid the piggy bank under terms of National Emergency argument. While Trump can try National Emergency it would be an effort to throw Article 1 off the cliff edge. DonDon has been trying to throw Article 1 off the cliff edge throughout this Wall Fight or at least since it dawned on him that his chance to gain an actual Appropriation for his Wall slipped away. Trump will be headed to court when and if he goes National Emergency. So I don't think he will be able to raid the piggy bank.

It should be clear to us that if Trump could just "raid the piggy bank" any ole' time for any ole' reason, he would have by now.
 
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