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Trump and his supporters have forgotten what it means to be American

EvaPeron said:
There was also a time when people who broke laws ie; Hillary would be prosecuted. Treason is not recognized when someone speculates that the purpose another country might do something is for a specific reason. Treason is when you encourage and take part in that action. Even more so, by your own standard, Hillary and the DNC was warned by the FBI that their records were likely to be hacked and they wanted to assist in securing those records. Hillary and the DNC opted out of letting them. Don't they then have some culpability in what happens from that point on?

As an American citizen, I would like for the truth to come out to know what fraud has been perpetrated upon the American people. I don't advocate that this information be hacked to be received, but clearly, Hillary wasn't going to honestly turn the information over ie: the cleaned servers that she wiped before releasing to the government. And, if she's so stupid to have ignored the rules in place and Russia or anyone is able to hack her, again, whose responsibility is that? I believe that it is hers as do most American's. Sorry you don't see that, but blaming Donald Trump is insane. He's not working with Russia and he surely wasn't advising Hillary when she committed fraud as Secretary of State.
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Hm. Who should I believe? You? Or the FBI director who was a deputy attorney general appointed by Bush, and was a registered Republican for all his adult life until less than a month ago?

And no, Trump's not working WITH Russia...but he DID ask the Russians to try to dig up and publish Hillary's e-mails, obviously for the purpose for influencing our national election. If you can't see what's wrong with getting other nations - and ESPECIALLY Russia - involved in our national elections, then you've forgotten what being an American is all about.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Hm. Who should I believe? You? Or the FBI director who was a deputy attorney general appointed by Bush, and was a registered Republican for all his adult life until less than a month ago?

And no, Trump's not working WITH Russia...but he DID ask the Russians to try to dig up and publish Hillary's e-mails, obviously for the purpose for influencing our national election. If you can't see what's wrong with getting other nations - and ESPECIALLY Russia - involved in our national elections, then you've forgotten what being an American is all about.
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Trump assumed, as do I, that the Russians already had HRC's emails.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Hm. Who should I believe? You? Or the FBI director who was a deputy attorney general appointed by Bush, and was a registered Republican for all his adult life until less than a month ago?

And no, Trump's not working WITH Russia...but he DID ask the Russians to try to dig up and publish Hillary's e-mails, obviously for the purpose for influencing our national election. If you can't see what's wrong with getting other nations - and ESPECIALLY Russia - involved in our national elections, then you've forgotten what being an American is all about.
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The irony here is I think this proves that it is YOU that has forgotten what it means to be an American.

We, Americans, want the truth. We know we are not going to get it from Hillary. She originally set up an illegal server, she broke all kinds of laws dealing with secrecy and the Freedom of Information, lied about turning everything over, lied about what she sent and did not send over this non secured private server and then she erased the server. The Justice Department would not indict so we have no trial in which advocates for the American people could try to prize more information, information that many of us true Americans would like to see out there so we could get to the bottom of this obviously severely poisoned well...

And so Trump asked Russia to produce what they already have, he was not asking them to actively hack the servers as it seems that cannot be done by anyone anymore... Trump has asked them what we would like to see, to produce for us what we know our own government will not.

We, real Americans, want the truth.
 
Aristaeus said:
It doesn't matter if it was a joke, it gives Russia the green light to hack into more US government emails. If they're caught they can just say the Republican presidential nominee/President said we could.
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One small exception. That's not what was asked for.

The request was for a copy of emails already hacked and in the Russian's possession (since this various other theories as to the hacker have floated around), and not a request for hacking a server which is securely locked up in FBI evidence locker and / or computer forensic labs, and probably not even turned on or connected to a network any more - gee! How does one hack one of those?

Stop listening to the dishonest biased liberal media and their talking points. It could only do you some good.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
The irony here is I think this proves that it is YOU that has forgotten what it means to be an American.

We, Americans, want the truth. We know we are not going to get it from Hillary. She originally set up an illegal server, she broke all kinds of laws dealing with secrecy and the Freedom of Information, lied about turning everything over, lied about what she sent and did not send over this non secured private server and then she erased the server. The Justice Department would not indict so we have no trial in which advocates for the American people could try to prize more information, information that many of us true Americans would like to see out there so we could get to the bottom of this obviously severely poisoned well...

And so Trump asked Russia to produce what they already have, he was not asking them to actively hack the servers as it seems that cannot be done by anyone anymore... Trump has asked them what we would like to see, to produce for us what we know our own government will not.

We, real Americans, want the truth.
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'Scuse you, but you're going to have a VERY hard time finding a president who was always truthful...but we've NEVER had a president who had willfully and deliberately cozied up to our enemies in order to get elected. Well, actually, there was one such - Nixon.
 
Jack Hays said:
Trump assumed, as do I, that the Russians already had HRC's emails.
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And he asked them to publish those emails in such a way that would influence our national election.

Sorry, Jack, but there is no excuse for what he did. If Hillary had done what he did, y'all would be screaming for her head - and so would I. But because it was the one who wasn't Hillary, well, it's "ha-rumph, there's this excuse and that excuse and we'll do whatever we can to excuse Trump for what he did".
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And he asked them to publish those emails in such a way that would influence our national election.

Sorry, Jack, but there is no excuse for what he did. If Hillary had done what he did, y'all would be screaming for her head - and so would I. But because it was the one who wasn't Hillary, well, it's "ha-rumph, there's this excuse and that excuse and we'll do whatever we can to excuse Trump for what he did".
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First off, in Trump's follow up tweet, requested that the emails be given to the FBI, so that would be the proper authroities, who, no doubt, wouldn't release them in such a fashion as to impact the election.

But then, it seems like the same rules appear not to apply to everyone.

President Obama's role during the Israeli elections was larger than reported, according to a pollster for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party.

"What was not well reported in the American media is that President Obama and his allies were playing in the election to defeat Prime Minister Netanyahu," John McLaughlin, a Republican strategist, said in an interview on John Catsimatidis's "The Cats Roundtable" radio show broadcast Sunday on AM 970 in New York.

"There was money moving that included taxpayer U.S. dollars, through non-profit organizations. And there were various liberal groups in the United States that were raising millions to fund a campaign called V15 against Prime Minister Netanyahu," McLaughlin said.

Netanyahu pollster: Obama role in election larger than reported
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Messin' around with other nation's elections, eh?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
'Scuse you, but you're going to have a VERY hard time finding a president who was always truthful...but we've NEVER had a president who had willfully and deliberately cozied up to our enemies in order to get elected. Well, actually, there was one such - Nixon.
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Excuse me? You really haven't any idea what past presidents have done and have not actually done behind the scenes...

So, might need a ladder to get down off the high horse there, eh? Besides which, Trump is only saying what we, all the rest of the country, are saying as well, "Hey Russia, if you got the goods on this incompetent liar of ours, please do us a favor and share that information with us." Most [well except for now the Just Got Berned fans ] on your side are just willingly blind to it... as you are in evidence.

But the rest of us are not.

What we most certainly have not had previous in our history is a known, should for all intents and purposes at minimum have been indicted, felon running for the position of President of the United States. Now sure, her husband was a twice caught perjurer AS president [one of only two in our history to be impeached], so he was a felon as well.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Hm. Who should I believe? You? Or the FBI director who was a deputy attorney general appointed by Bush, and was a registered Republican for all his adult life until less than a month ago?

And no, Trump's not working WITH Russia...but he DID ask the Russians to try to dig up and publish Hillary's e-mails, obviously for the purpose for influencing our national election. If you can't see what's wrong with getting other nations - and ESPECIALLY Russia - involved in our national elections, then you've forgotten what being an American is all about.
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OK - what about this little fact - The Phildadelphia Inquirer reported today that, in 59 precincts in inner-city Philadelphia, the GOP nominee received not a single vote. And according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, nine precincts in Cleveland returned zero Romney votes.

Do you think that it is at ALL possible that this happened honestly? I mean seriously - be honest. In what world do we live in that 59 precincts in one state and 9 precincts in another did not have one vote for a candidate running for President? If you or anyone honestly thinks that this could happen then me saying the sky is blue and you saying the sky is orange is not going to matter. If the political leaders in play at the time of this election (as an example) had any corruption involved to make this zero vote a reality then I'd say bring it on. Let Russia, China or even Iraq come forth with the evidence to support that fraud. If you think it should stay buried simply because another country exposes it, then the question is - what do you care more about - making sure that all votes count or protecting the image of America and the democrats in play who could have let this happened? Or hey, who could have actually made this happen?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Hm. Who should I believe? You? Or the FBI director who was a deputy attorney general appointed by Bush, and was a registered Republican for all his adult life until less than a month ago?

And no, Trump's not working WITH Russia...but he DID ask the Russians to try to dig up and publish Hillary's e-mails, obviously for the purpose for influencing our national election. If you can't see what's wrong with getting other nations - and ESPECIALLY Russia - involved in our national elections, then you've forgotten what being an American is all about.
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and on another note - who should you believe? Since you've chosen the FBI director note that these were his exact words:

"I think she was extremely careless. I think she was negligent. That I could establish. What we can't establish is that she acted with the necessary criminal intent," he insisted. "'Should have known,' 'must have known,' 'had to know' does not get you there. You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew they were engaged in something that was unlawful." And now, months later, she's still careless. Is she that stupid or does she just not care? That's the bigger question.
 
Aristaeus said:
It doesn't matter if it was a joke, it gives Russia the green light to hack into more US government emails. If they're caught they can just say the Republican presidential nominee/President said we could.
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Not to be insulting but that's a really funny statement. I see an image of Putin, pondering the question to Hack or not to Hack. Hmmm he struggles with this very question and begins to lean on the side of doing the right thing and then along comes Donald Trump and Bammm - to Hack it is!

I know, let's tell Donald to make a call to ISIS and tell them to all behave. That'll end that problem also.
 
EvaPeron said:
and on another note - who should you believe? Since you've chosen the FBI director note that these were his exact words:

"I think she was extremely careless. I think she was negligent. That I could establish. What we can't establish is that she acted with the necessary criminal intent," he insisted. "'Should have known,' 'must have known,' 'had to know' does not get you there. You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew they were engaged in something that was unlawful." And now, months later, she's still careless. Is she that stupid or does she just not care? That's the bigger question.
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And all of that excuses Trump how? It doesn't. She made a real mistake and she's owned up to the mistake and she won't make that mistake again. But Trump's call for Russia to find and publish her emails was a DELIBERATE call for another nation to influence our national election.

One's mistake was a mistake - the other's was a deliberate action. You cannot get around that fact.
 
EvaPeron said:
OK - what about this little fact - The Phildadelphia Inquirer reported today that, in 59 precincts in inner-city Philadelphia, the GOP nominee received not a single vote. And according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, nine precincts in Cleveland returned zero Romney votes.

Do you think that it is at ALL possible that this happened honestly? I mean seriously - be honest. In what world do we live in that 59 precincts in one state and 9 precincts in another did not have one vote for a candidate running for President? If you or anyone honestly thinks that this could happen then me saying the sky is blue and you saying the sky is orange is not going to matter. If the political leaders in play at the time of this election (as an example) had any corruption involved to make this zero vote a reality then I'd say bring it on. Let Russia, China or even Iraq come forth with the evidence to support that fraud. If you think it should stay buried simply because another country exposes it, then the question is - what do you care more about - making sure that all votes count or protecting the image of America and the democrats in play who could have let this happened? Or hey, who could have actually made this happen?
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1. The voting corruption - if that's what it was (for that's not been proven) - is NOT a reason to call for other nations to get involved in our national elections.

2. Are you really so naive as to think that it would be no big deal for Russia or China to get involved in determining who we should elect to the most powerful office in human history???? Do you really think that other nations that are not friendly to us - and Russia is NOT friendly - would want us to elect the one that's best for America? Or do you think they'd eagerly try to get us to elect the one who's most easily manipulated, the one they can most easily use to tear down America?

GET REAL!

I never thought in my wildest dreams and worst nightmares that I'd be having to explain to a conservative why it would be a Really Bad Idea to allow Russia to help pick the American president....

:doh
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And he asked them to publish those emails in such a way that would influence our national election.

Sorry, Jack, but there is no excuse for what he did. If Hillary had done what he did, y'all would be screaming for her head - and so would I. But because it was the one who wasn't Hillary, well, it's "ha-rumph, there's this excuse and that excuse and we'll do whatever we can to excuse Trump for what he did".
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Sorry, but no. Hillary and Hillary alone is responsible for those emails being in Russian hands. And Hillary alone would bear responsibility for any Russian use of those emails to influence our election.
 
Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but no. Hillary and Hillary alone is responsible for those emails being in Russian hands. And Hillary alone would bear responsibility for any Russian use of those emails to influence our election.
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That's like saying "The bank robber's not responsible for robbing the bank - the one who's responsible is the one who left his gun cabinet unlocked and allowed the robber to steal the guns so he could use them to rob the bank!"
 
Glen Contrarian said:
That's like saying "The bank robber's not responsible for robbing the bank - the one who's responsible is the one who left his gun cabinet unlocked and allowed the robber to steal the guns so he could use them to rob the bank!"
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No, it is not. By putting her emails on an unsecured server Hillary put them in public. The more apt analogy would be the people in New York who, in keeping with longstanding custom, leave unwanted household items on the sidewalk in the expectation that someone will take them.
 
Jack Hays said:
No, it is not. By putting her emails on an unsecured server Hillary put them in public. The more apt analogy would be the people in New York who, in keeping with longstanding custom, leave unwanted household items on the sidewalk in the expectation that someone will take them.
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WRONG. And your analogy is wrong, too. Why? Because in order to get to that data, one still had to hack into or log on to her server. It would be like leaving household items on the front porch - relatively easy to get to, but still on private property.

AGAIN, Jack, you can try to make excuses for Trump all day long, but it's not going to work. A stupid mistake on Hillary's part does not in any way, shape, or form excuse him for encouraging Russia to influence our national election. Period.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
WRONG. And your analogy is wrong, too. Why? Because in order to get to that data, one still had to hack into or log on to her server. It would be like leaving household items on the front porch - relatively easy to get to, but still on private property.

AGAIN, Jack, you can try to make excuses for Trump all day long, but it's not going to work. A stupid mistake on Hillary's part does not in any way, shape, or form excuse him for encouraging Russia to influence our national election. Period.
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I make no excuses for Trump; he's a crude buffoon. But Hillary and Hillary alone bears responsibility for any role those emails end up playing in our politics.
 
Jack Hays said:
I make no excuses for Trump; he's a crude buffoon. But Hillary and Hillary alone bears responsibility for any role those emails end up playing in our politics.
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Jack, your blaming Hillary simply won't work. One person's stupid mistake will never - ever - excuse what someone else does when taking advantage of said mistake. I know, I know, blah-blah-blah...I'll be the first to castigate Hillary for being stupid about data security...but she is NOT to blame for Trump essentially asking Russia to influence the election.
 
RetiredUSN said:
JFK was banging a East German spy.
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And that excuses Trump how? It doesn't. Not one whit.

But on a side note, I hadn't heard that. I don't really doubt it - wouldn't surprise me at all. It also wouldn't surprise me if he was banging her with full knowledge of what she was and fed her false info.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Jack, your blaming Hillary simply won't work. One person's stupid mistake will never - ever - excuse what someone else does when taking advantage of said mistake. I know, I know, blah-blah-blah...I'll be the first to castigate Hillary for being stupid about data security...but she is NOT to blame for Trump essentially asking Russia to influence the election.
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It was clear to me from the first that Trump was speaking sarcastically, and I don't think his remark was a serious problem. Hillary created the issue and bears full responsibility.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And that excuses Trump how? It doesn't. Not one whit.

But on a side note, I hadn't heard that. I don't really doubt it - wouldn't surprise me at all. It also wouldn't surprise me if he was banging her with full knowledge of what she was and fed her false info.
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You love making comparisons.............and want question other when they do?

Screw Trump...............he's another Joe Biden gaff machine.

But.............hey!
 
RetiredUSN said:
You love making comparisons.............and want question other when they do?

Screw Trump...............he's another Joe Biden gaff machine.

But.............hey!
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I don't excuse someone doing the wrong thing by pointing at someone else who also did a wrong thing. But when the complaints of wrongdoing become rather silly - like when that one virtually unknown IRS functionary appeared to target conservative groups, and the Right convinced itself overnight that it was all part of a grand scheme by the Obama administration - I've got no problem showing y'all just how silly such accusations are.
 
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