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Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November

Will you be willing to be vaccinated in Nov or Dec with this vaccine?


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HumblePi

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Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November

CDC sent letter to governors asking them to speed approval of distribution centers by Nov. 1, just before Election Day

Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November - WSJ


WASHINGTON—The Trump administration is asking states to speed up approval for vaccine distribution sites by Nov. 1, the latest sign the federal government is eager to get a vaccine out before the end of the year.
 

Chomsky

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Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November

CDC sent letter to governors asking them to speed approval of distribution centers by Nov. 1, just before Election Day

Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November - WSJ


WASHINGTON—The Trump administration is asking states to speed up approval for vaccine distribution sites by Nov. 1, the latest sign the federal government is eager to get a vaccine out before the end of the year.
If it wasn't so deadly serious, I'd be prone to say:

"This is some funny ****!"
 

Oborosen

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Even going through two other articles about this story. I've yet to actually run across a negative here.
 

Napoleon

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Even going through two other articles about this story. I've yet to actually run across a negative here.

The negative is that the FDA’s clinical trial process has been compromised by election year politics. I refuse to be injected with anything they cut corners to cobble together for no reason other than Donald Trump wants to use it as a campaign strategy.
 

Oborosen

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The negative is that the FDA’s clinical trial process has been compromised by election year politics. I refuse to be injected with anything they cut corners to cobble together for no reason other than Donald Trump wants to use it as a campaign strategy.

I've seen nothing that actually suggest that as a premise, but okay. You're at least entitled to your opinion on the matter.
 

Ikari

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Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November

CDC sent letter to governors asking them to speed approval of distribution centers by Nov. 1, just before Election Day

Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November - WSJ


WASHINGTON—The Trump administration is asking states to speed up approval for vaccine distribution sites by Nov. 1, the latest sign the federal government is eager to get a vaccine out before the end of the year.

If they can come up with a vaccine that is proven safe and effective then sure.
 

trblmkr

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I've seen nothing that actually suggest that as a premise, but okay. You're at least entitled to your opinion on the matter.

Actually you have seen it. They have actively sought to bypass the normal paths of testing to fast track the approval of a vaccine, any vaccine, before election day. There is no way they can know of all problems in that short a time frame. They could give it to 10K people. 9k people do great and 1K people over 65 die. Who knows? They don't. I want a vaccine as much as anyone, but do the math, do the studies, don't experiment on real people. Unless it's DJT and then feel free. Shoot him up. Twice.
 

Chomsky

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Crazy, I actually predicted this maybe a month ago. Who couldn't see it coming?
 

Chomsky

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Actually you have seen it. They have actively sought to bypass the normal paths of testing to fast track the approval of a vaccine, any vaccine, before election day. There is no way they can know of all problems in that short a time frame. They could give it to 10K people. 9k people do great and 1K people over 65 die. Who knows? They don't. I want a vaccine as much as anyone, but do the math, do the studies, don't experiment on real people. Unless it's DJT and then feel free. Shoot him up. Twice.
This is just another example of our government using us as political pawns. It's beyond patronizing. It's downright malicious.
 

Oborosen

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This is just another example of our government using us as political pawns. It's beyond patronizing. It's downright malicious.

That would be an interesting premise. If it could be proven.
 

Oborosen

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Actually you have seen it. They have actively sought to bypass the normal paths of testing to fast track the approval of a vaccine, any vaccine, before election day. There is no way they can know of all problems in that short a time frame. They could give it to 10K people. 9k people do great and 1K people over 65 die. Who knows? They don't. I want a vaccine as much as anyone, but do the math, do the studies, don't experiment on real people. Unless it's DJT and then feel free. Shoot him up. Twice.

I've seen allegations, yes. But I've seen nothing from our administration that says their telling these people to either bypass test, or directly fast track the vaccine.

I would like something more than allegation to go on.
 

bearpoker

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I've seen allegations, yes. But I've seen nothing from our administration that says their telling these people to either bypass test, or directly fast track the vaccine.

I would like something more than allegation to go on.

Does the name "Operation Warp Speed" suggest anything to you?
 

Oborosen

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Does the name "Operation Warp Speed" suggest anything to you?

Yes and the operation laid out it's entire reasoning, and it's understanding for such increases.

Are you saying that they openly stated they will cut corners on some kind of set regulation, or medical standard/
 

bearpoker

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Yes and the operation laid out it's entire reasoning, and it's understanding for such increases.

Are you saying that they openly stated they will cut corners on some kind of set regulation, or medical standard/

They skipped phase 2 and went directly from phase 1 to phase 3. They're still signing up people for the phase 3 testing and now they want to cut short phase 3. This does not fill me with confidence.
 

trblmkr

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I've seen allegations, yes. But I've seen nothing from our administration that says their telling these people to either bypass test, or directly fast track the vaccine.

I would like something more than allegation to go on.

There are numerous standards in regards to double blind studies of vaccines. The timelines proscribed do not allow for any such studies to be completed. So any vaccines would have not gone through the previous standard testing of vaccines.
 

Manc Skipper

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In England, Johnson is doing something similar. They just issued a "consultation paper" around short-circuiting the testing and approvals process to get a vaccine (of sorts) out this year, which also includes indemnifying the manufacturers from any harm it might cause!
 

Oborosen

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They skipped phase 2 and went directly from phase 1 to phase 3. They're still signing up people for the phase 3 testing and now they want to cut short phase 3. This does not fill me with confidence.

This isn't the first time that we've had operations like this. It's a rather common occurrence actually, especially for drugs that are cheaper, higher in volume and more readily available no matter where you are.

The only reason nothing I touch gets that treatment, is because psychoactive drugs don't do too well under those same conditions. Much like they don't do too well under double-blind studies. It's dealing with aspects of mental illness, so you're already messing with their brain chemistry to begin with. So lying to them about their placebo may not be in their best interest.
 

Oborosen

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There are numerous standards in regards to double blind studies of vaccines. The timelines proscribed do not allow for any such studies to be completed. So any vaccines would have not gone through the previous standard testing of vaccines.

Double blinds are not necessary to create a vaccine, or any medication for that matter. You also have more than a few doctors, myself included. Who do not typically like such studies.
Though in my case, it comes with my field of study.

As for this fast tracking method. It looks more like a hammer and nail situation. Though the hammer is comparable to the weight of a 40in tire and the nail's head is the size of a NY manhole cover.

This reminds of me of older English testing methods, that stripped away measures as testing progressed.
 

HumblePi

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If they can come up with a vaccine that is proven safe and effective then sure.

Dr. William Haseltine is a CNN and Fox contributor. He's a scientist, formerly a professor at Harvard Medical School and founder of the university’s cancer and HIV/AIDS research departments.

"While preclinical trials to evaluate the potential safety and efficacy of vaccine candidates are likely to include tens of thousands of patients, it is still unclear whether that number will be large enough and a trial will last long enough to evaluate safety for a drug that would be administered to so many. The US alone plans to vaccinate hundreds of millions of people with the first successful candidate. One serious adverse event per thousand of a vaccine given to 100 million people means harm to 100,000 otherwise healthy people."

"Aside from questions of safety that attend any vaccine, there are good reasons to be especially cautious for COVID-19. Some vaccines worsen the consequences of infection rather than protect, a phenomenon called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE has been observed in previous attempts to develop coronavirus vaccines. To add to the concern, antibodies typical of ADE are present in the blood of some COVID-19 patients. Such concerns are real."

Large Scale Trials Will Tell Us if the Vaccine Works
How — and When — Can the Coronavirus Vaccine Become a Reality? — ProPublica
When experimental vaccines are tested, they usually go through three phases of clinical trials. The first phase is the smallest and focuses on safety, making sure that the product doesn’t have any dangerous health effects. The second is a little larger, continuing to gather safety data while testing if the vaccine can induce an immune response, producing antibodies in participants. The third trial is the largest, and it needs to be big enough to confirm that the vaccine is actually effective in the real world.

Moderna Therapeutics is currently expected to be the first U.S. manufacturer to start a phase 3 trial. Candidates by AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson will follow, according to The Wall Street Journal. Moderna’s trial is planned to begin in July and will enroll about 30,000 participants.

Shortcuts Involve Trade-Offs

To give you a sense of what a blistering pace we are attempting to move at, consider that under normal circumstances, it typically takes 10 to 15 years to develop a vaccine. Creating the HPV vaccine was a 15-year journey from key research findings in 1991 until the vaccine was approved, initially for the prevention of cervical, vulvar and vaginal cancers, in 2006. Merck’s Ebola vaccine, one of the fastest ever to be approved in the company’s history, still took about five years from start to finish in human trials, according to Merck.
 

Napoleon

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Yes and the operation laid out it's entire reasoning, and it's understanding for such increases.

Are you saying that they openly stated they will cut corners on some kind of set regulation, or medical standard/

This “operation” has some very questionable decisions under its belt. For example, giving $483 million to Moderna - a nearly bankrupt company which has never been able to produce anything that has survived clinical trials or in some cases even made it past animal trials - and fast tracking their vaccine candidate. No thank you.
 

Oborosen

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This “operation” has some very questionable decisions under its belt. For example, giving $483 million to Moderna - a nearly bankrupt company which has never been able to produce anything that has survived clinical trials or in some cases even made it past animal trials - and fast tracking their vaccine candidate. No thank you.

That's not a surprising outcome when put against how these things usually work. It's like no one's ever heard of the "lowest bidder" context before.

This also doesn't show that any laws are being broken and that exceptions are going to be introduced to make up for shortcomings in the operations methods.
 

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This isn't the first time that we've had operations like this. It's a rather common occurrence actually, especially for drugs that are cheaper, higher in volume and more readily available no matter where you are.

The only reason nothing I touch gets that treatment, is because psychoactive drugs don't do too well under those same conditions. Much like they don't do too well under double-blind studies. It's dealing with aspects of mental illness, so you're already messing with their brain chemistry to begin with. So lying to them about their placebo may not be in their best interest.

Is that really relevant? Considering how damaging anti-psychotic drugs turn out to be, maybe a little more rigor and less corner cutting might be a good idea. This too does not fill me with confidence.
 

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We already have surveys saying that about a third of third of the population doesn't want to take a vaccine. What does anyone think will happen if it doesn't go well after a few months of delivery? Not only will that third not take it, another third will likely join them. And to top it off, we are going to give it the front line providers first, (which we should do the a safe, effective vaccine). If we give them crap that goes south, we lose many of them as well.
 

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Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November

CDC sent letter to governors asking them to speed approval of distribution centers by Nov. 1, just before Election Day

Trump Administration Asks States to Be Ready for Vaccine by November - WSJ


WASHINGTON—The Trump administration is asking states to speed up approval for vaccine distribution sites by Nov. 1, the latest sign the federal government is eager to get a vaccine out before the end of the year.

This is rather funny that Biden and the left keep on saying that we should trust the science and listen to the healthcare experts and yet if the science and the healthcare experts tell us the vaccine will be safe and effective, the left don't want to trust the science or the health care experts.
 

Chomsky

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That would be an interesting premise. If it could be proven.
Fair enough. But that's the way it looks to me, in several different facets of Trump's Presidency.
 
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