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Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us

Rogue Valley

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Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy
 

Captain Adverse

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

From your own citation:

The United States has long sought to persuade our allies to pick up more of the cost of modernizing, deploying, and fighting. But the 2 percent is a political target. Currently, only 5 of 28 NATO members meet the target and, indeed, the next president will have to work harder to convince European capitals to increase defense spending.

Why is it such a problem to require member nations pick up their fair share of the financial burden?

That's always been the problem. As long as Uncle "Moneybags" Sam is there to pick up the tab, these deadbeat nations are happy to participate; in the United Nations, in NATO, in whatever...

That's like the story of the Little Red Hen, they don't want to carry any of the burdens but still demand their "fair share" of the results.
 

joG

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

The loose talk is stupid foreign politics and bad policy. The content of the message is close to right. The problem is that populism requires talking loud and swinging a big twig fast enough to look like magic.
 

joG

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From your own citation:



Why is it such a problem to require member nations pick up their fair share of the financial burden?

That's always been the problem. As long as Uncle "Moneybags" Sam is there to pick up the tab, these deadbeat nations are happy to participate; in the United Nations, in NATO, in whatever...

That's like the story of the Little Red Hen, they don't want to carry any of the burdens but still demand their "fair share" of the results.

There can be no question. Most EU members have been free riding for some time and grossly. Some have caused really bad situations and increased America costs dramatically, while using the competitive advantages they garnered from these policies. We must solve this problem and should have done so 7 years ago. But that is another issue.

The problem is in the threat chosen. It qualifies resolve and makes clear that one will hesitate to fulfill one's commitments.

This is true to character of the candidate's past behavior: If there is problem, reneg and bring in the lawyers. The man has done this over and again in business and private.
 

MaggieD

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

AGAIN, Trump resonates to the American people. Who thinks it's unreasonable for gvmts to spend a minimal amount on their own security?

Thanks for the great information.
 

Howler63

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

LOL...where's the 'collective'? Have you seen the bill for NATO and who pays it? Who bears the brunt and does all the heavy lifting? 'Collective'?

:lamo
 

Cryptic

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NATO has been a meaningless alliance for years. Not only do most of the members refuse to contribute their fair share, but even in its glory days during the Cold War, the willingness of some (or many) members to actually make meaningful sacrifices against an attacking enemy that did not threaten them personally was in doubt.
 

AlbqOwl

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Since WWII, the USA has carried the huge lion's share of the free world's security. Without the U.S. military, mutual protection treaties, including NATO, would be a lot less effective and our defense budget is larger than everybody else's put together. And we contribute the lion's share of the budget to maintain NATO forces. So yes, I do think other nation's are getting pretty much a free ride at our expense and should step up to contribute their fair share.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2d86bc54a2e93b8e0432376c40c3559e?convert_to_webp=true
 

Henrin

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If it was up to me NATO and the UN would have been disbanded a long time ago. Regardless, getting everyone to pay their part is one thing I agree with Trump on. If we are going to have NATO then every member has to pay up. If you feel your country is too good to pay their fair share then maybe your country should be booted from NATO.
 

Tigerace117

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If it was up to me NATO and the UN would have been disbanded a long time ago. Regardless, getting everyone to pay their part is one thing I agree with Trump on. If we are going to have NATO then every member has to pay up. If you feel your country is too good to pay their fair share then maybe your country should be booted from NATO.

Good thing it's not up to you, then.
 

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Well you all know the only way to change this is to elect Donald, but on reading posts on this forum you are of two minds, go with the status quo and you will be paying for others defences while running up your deficit and not being able to pay for all the things Americans need while they laugh their heads off at your stupidity, or?.
 

Tigerace117

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Why? Why are you so concerned with the survival of NATO and the UN?

Because NATO is a important alliance system which helps protect against the aggression of states such as Russia. Might makes right is supposed to have gone out of date a long time ago, yet it hasn't, and NATO is a good way to deter people from trying ****.

The UN is important for the obvious reason--- it's good for countries to be able to meet and express grievances diplomatically.
 

shagg

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

*Gasp* that's scary, for sure. Absolutely terrifying. And I can stop it by voting for Shillary you say?

What about the corruption that's undermining democracy from within? Are you not afraid of that? Or are you too scared to think?
 

Henrin

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Because NATO is a important alliance system which helps protect against the aggression of states such as Russia. Might makes right is supposed to have gone out of date a long time ago, yet it hasn't, and NATO is a good way to deter people from trying ****.

I think you mean to say it allows countries to band together to push countries around easier. You know, because that's actually what it's used for. Your rhetoric sounds cool, but reality says something different.

The UN is important for the obvious reason--- it's good for countries to be able to meet and express grievances diplomatically.

...And push their will on other countries.
 

Tigerace117

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I think you mean to say it allows countries to band together to push countries around easier. You know, because that's actually what it's used for. Your rhetoric sounds cool, but reality says something different.



...And push their will on other countries.

Oh, of course. Because anybody should be able to annex any of their neighbors, whenever they want, right?

The Baltic States don't deserve to exist, right? Poor Russia. So close, and yet they can't because of that bad bad NATO.


If somebody is committing genocide or the like, there's no reason to allow them to continue, period.
 

Henrin

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Oh, of course. Because anybody should be able to annex any of their neighbors, whenever they want, right?

The Baltic States don't deserve to exist, right? Poor Russia. So close, and yet they can't because of that bad bad NATO.


If somebody is committing genocide or the like, there's no reason to allow them to continue, period.

It's none of our business and doesn't just magically become our business because you're morally opposed to it.
 

reinoe

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

i.e. "collective security" only works if the U.S. is doing all the work and paying all the bills.
 

reinoe

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Oh, of course. Because anybody should be able to annex any of their neighbors, whenever they want, right?

The Baltic States don't deserve to exist, right? Poor Russia. So close, and yet they can't because of that bad bad NATO.


If somebody is committing genocide or the like, there's no reason to allow them to continue, period.
If there's a famine in Romania is it our responsibility to take care of it or is it their neighbor's responsibility to resolve it?
 

Tigerace117

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It's none of our business and doesn't just magically become our business because you're morally opposed to it.

I forgot, you are the Imperial Japan apologist.

Guess what? If a country is committing atrocities, it becomes our buisness, because it destabilizes the entire region, makes it more likely for violence and slaughter to continue, and hurts the US. That's even leaving out the moral responsiblity the US has.
 

Tigerace117

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If there's a famine in Romania is it our responsibility to take care of it or is it their neighbor's responsibility to resolve it?

The US can offer aid; so can their neighbors.

But if Romania is shooting all their Roma as a result of said famine, the US has to make it clear that if they don't knock that **** off the boom stick is coming down.
 

Henrin

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I forgot, you are the Imperial Japan apologist.

Guess what? If a country is committing atrocities, it becomes our buisness, because it destabilizes the entire region, makes it more likely for violence and slaughter to continue, and hurts the US. That's even leaving out the moral responsiblity the US has.

Hurts the US how? Economically?
 

reinoe

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The US can offer aid; so can their neighbors.

But if Romania is shooting all their Roma as a result of said famine, the US has to make it clear that if they don't knock that **** off the boom stick is coming down.

That doesn't answer the question. Why is it our responsibility to take care of it and not their neighbors?
 

Henrin

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The US can offer aid; so can their neighbors.

But if Romania is shooting all their Roma as a result of said famine, the US has to make it clear that if they don't knock that **** off the boom stick is coming down.

Who cares if we can afford aid? Just because you can afford something doesn't make it your responsibility to do.
 

faithful_servant

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Simpleχity;1066135312 said:
Trump’s Loose NATO Talk Already Has Endangered Us


Collective security only works when everyone is committed to the common defense....


defense-large.jpg



Evelyn N. Farkas served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia from 2012 to 2015.
She is the author of Fractured States and U.S. Foreign Policy

She's making the same point that Trump was making. He was stating that everyone wasn't doing their share and was expecting us to pick up their slack. NATO can only work if EVERYONE pitches in instead of whining because they think that we aren't doing enough.
NATO - Topic: Funding NATO
 
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