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True fiscal conservatism antithetical to libertarian deregulation and free market

Gabriel

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John Bogle: The Free Market's Moral Crisis
Columbia Business School

[video]http://fora.tv/2009/04/01/John_Bogle_The_Free_Markets_Moral_Crisis#chapter_0 1[/video]

Resolving to reinstitute fiduciary duty as being a legally binding contract with serious implications may be a means of circumventing government regulatory policy. One could argue that indeed enforcing moral obligatory legality is in itself a regulatory instrument. This would be arguably an acceptable libertarian ideal as opposed to outright deregulation to the degree of making derivatives legal again.

When Bogle asks the questions regarding massive management market conflicts overlooked he implies these money managers were acting in the interest of personal gain over the interest of fund share holders. Clear disregard for their obligatory fiduciary position of trust. Because these money managers are supposed to be acting for a large collective group it is expected they behave as they are expected to with moral regard for the people they are entrusted with. Considering the integration of public funds that are collectively derived and privately invested these institutions should be working for the benefit of society under obligatory fiduciary duty. This would be a true conservative argument that runs contrary to libertarian deregulatory free marketing. There should be a huge disconnect between libertarians individual greed accumulation and collective morality inherent in the market via the ideal of fiduciary duty.

I feel conservatives have become lazy and lean on their right wing counterpart libertarian economic anarchy for fiscal policy with regards to the economic sharing self regulation as an axiom. However they only worry about self preservation of their religious convictions and abortion, traditional family, divorce, propagation of their religious convictions .. etc. These are particular issues an economic libertarian disregards. Here we have another disconnect between social libertarians and economic libertarians.

Social libertarians have a large degree of anarchist compassion. However they must include individual liberty to be included in collective social contracts to insure political protection for that said liberty. As such I suppose there is a divide between republican social conservatives and republican economic libertarians. There must be serious cognitive dissonance for social conservatives while considering matters of moral economic relativistic policy results. Even I, being a morally social relativist, find myself concerned for the shared results of economic relativism in the financial markets. How the economic libertarians square that circle and simultaneously rationalise wide spread economic inequality is incomprehensible.

Social conservatives should be fighting to reign in the market not give it more of the unfounded blind faith in human nature.. particularly where fiscal matters are of concern. You should be telling economic libertarians to go lay down, not lying down with them. It is like social conservatives are committing suicide by knowingly sleeping with an infected aids patient.(a politically incorrect analogy conservatives might appreciate.)
 
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Gabriel

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Oh by the way this is a big poke in the eye to Austrian economics.
 

Gabriel

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To add insult to injury to libertarians .. Eliot Spitzer: The Cataclysm of 2008-2009

FORA.tv - Eliot Spitzer: The Cataclysm of 2008-2009

Clearly libertarian philosophy needs to be re-examined. Eliot is vehement in his assertion that self regulation in the market has failed massively.
 
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masonkiller

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Lol you're implying we've been in a free market at any time recently? People always point out all these problems in America as the "failure of the free market." You'd be right if America was a free market, but it's much closer to mercantilism/corporate facism.
 
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Actual definitions.
Austrian-economcis - the separation of economy and state; free market.
Fiscal-conservatism - the advocacy and action for the government to avoid deficit spending.
Free-market - a market where people may voluntarily trade any goods and services where merchants and traders are free from aggressive economic and market practices that may be carried out by an individual, an association of people or the state.
deregulation - to remove law, including law that legally binds contracts and protects merchants and traders from aggression or laws that empower the state to spend and extort money, you know, stuff that isn't libertarian.

Gabriels definitions:
Austrian-economics: the economic system we have now in America thanks to deregulation.
Fiscal-conservatism: something a libertarian can't be.
Free-market: the 7th layer of hell or chaos.
deregulation: libertarian anarchist racist fascist nazism that only empowers free market greed despite it's recent and historical application where deregulation has been used to empower more government oversight and spending.
 
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Gabriel

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Lol you're implying we've been in a free market at any time recently? People always point out all these problems in America as the "failure of the free market." You'd be right if America was a free market, but it's much closer to mercantilism/corporate facism.
I honestly don't know why R.Shackleferd would thank you for such a wonderfully ignorant argument. If you actually took the time to listen to Bogle you would find his dissatisfaction with the deregulatory environment in place .. but he is a conservative so he beats around the bush fairly well on that with the notion of fiduciary duty.

Eliot Spitzer is a lot less forgiving and names Libertarianism as the problem and further expects that harsh regulatory methods are needed to reign in the market. Deregulation being a tenant of libertarianism .. a main one which has been in effect for many years. Sure the small government fantasy of libertarianism never materialised. The bush administration did everything but reduce government they actually increased it by a large portion by integrating private corporate with the federal government massively.

They did what most libertarian politicians would do.. hop right in the pockets of business. But neglected libertarian social issues to appease the religious collectivist nature of the republican voter base. So libertarians have only to cut government spending, trick is to get the democrats to do it and not the republicans.
 

Gabriel

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Actual definitions.
Austrian-economcis - the separation of economy and state; free market.
Fiscal-conservatism - the advocacy and action for the government to avoid deficit spending.
Free-market - a market where people may voluntarily trade any goods and services where merchants and traders are free from aggressive economic and market practices that may be carried out by an individual, an association of people or the state.
deregulation - to remove law, including law that legally binds contracts and protects merchants and traders from aggression or laws that empower the state to spend and extort money, you know, stuff that isn't libertarian.

Gabriels definitions:
Austrian-economics: the economic system we have now in America thanks to deregulation.
Fiscal-conservatism: something a libertarian can't be.
Free-market: the 7th layer of hell or chaos.
deregulation: libertarian anarchist racist fascist nazism that only empowers free market greed despite it's recent and historical application where deregulation has been used to empower more government oversight and spending.
bleh you exagerate my ideals and ignore your own.
 
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They did what most libertarian politicians would do.. hop right in the pockets of business. But neglected libertarian social issues to appease the religious collectivist nature of the republican voter base. So libertarians have only to cut government spending, trick is to get the democrats to do it and not the republicans.
Ahh for the salad days of the 90's when there was so much cold war pork to cut.

We're so up to ears in debt between economic crisis and war I can't see either party reigning it in right now.
 

Gabriel

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Ahh for the salad days of the 90's when there was so much cold war pork to cut.

We're so up to ears in debt between economic crisis and war I can't see either party reigning it in right now.
No and it would be a very bad time economically speaking to begin cuts anywhere. Military spending cuts are very unpopular but its the best place to start. Clearly the American public is getting little value out of this insane military spending. Whoever does start the cutting process in an economic downturn is going to commit political suicide and drive the economy into the ground.
 
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