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Truckers warn 'disastrous' mandate will worsen supply chain chaos

Unsurprisingly, you're missing the point. It's that we are under-reacting to COVID.


Close, but no cigar -- in a somewhat literal sense. I believe that, even though prohibition is not a perfect solution, cigarettes should be outlawed. There is no justification for them being legal, especially since the addictive properties of nicotine deprives individuals of the free choice to stop smoking whenever they want.

Anyway. Our society engages in a huge range of laws and actions to prevent harm and disease. We have vaccine mandates for students and health care workers. We have speed limits, seat belt requirements, air bag requirements, other auto safety requirements, and traffic controls. Workplaces must meet safety standards, including taking steps to avoid exposure to toxins and known carcinogens. Buildings have to meet complex zoning and construction codes. We have laws requiring that clothing can't be too flammable. Restaurants must meet food safety standards. Food gets inspected for safety. Alcohol and tobacco are regulated, including age limits for buyers. Legal cannabis is even more heavily regulated.

In fact, I'd say that almost all consumer products are inspected or regulated in some way. And people often complain about the few that are less regulated, a condition often exploited by scammers (e.g. dietary supplements).

I could be here all day listing the myriad ways that government intervenes to ensure safety, including from things that are less threatening than COVID. We've done it for decades. None of it results in "totalitarianism and oppression."

In the late 19th and early 20th century, there was a wave of smallpox. City, county, state and federal governments were all involved in forcibly quarantining and inoculating people. As in, they were literally going door to door, and using physical force to vaccinate people -- and that was with an early vaccine that wasn't even remotely safe by today's standards. Funny how that didn't lead to "totalitarianism and oppression," huh?

In fact, mandatory vaccinations REDUCE the need for government interference in daily life. If enough people get vaccinated, then we can basically get rid of mask mandates, potential lock-downs, social distancing, and more.

I also think it's rather hilarious that you are suggesting that getting 2 shots of a vaccine, or even getting an annual vaccine, is anywhere near as intrusive as a government mandate for decades of daily exercise and daily medications and daily supplements.


Right. So, I guess we shouldn't do jack shit until what, 2 million Americans die? Does that number sound good to you? Maybe you want to hold out for 3 million?

What can I say, it sure seems to me that your blasé attitude towards a disease that has already killed 700,000 Americans, and will kill hundreds of thousands more if you get your way, is a shining example of the failures of your libertarian leanings.

You use your intellect to make a good argument but are simply wrong in trading off too many liberties for a little extra security. It historically has never ended well for a society when the state begins to dictate how the masses should live on every level. People have to have the freedom to make their own mistakes to live, learn and grow or you end up with a civilization with no incentive to excel and be unique, like communism.

Your philosophy of governance robs people of self-determination. In psychology, self-determination is an important concept that refers to each person's ability to make choices and manage their own life. This ability plays an important role in psychological health and well-being. Self-determination allows people to feel that they have control over their choices and lives.
 
When a family makes a mistake the family suffers. When a town is in error the town suffers. When a State is corrupt, the entire State suffers. But when the GOVERNMENT of the entire country is a fault, the country will not stand faultless...
 
People should not be using cannabis/pot and driving. That is not okay and people under such influence have caused accidents.

That being said, I believe that there should be a simpler way to determine if someone is truly currently under the influence while they are driving rather than some sort of residual left over in the system, similar to how we have breathalyzers and give those drinking a threshold to be within.
Do people out here realize that a good part of those trucks out there are owner /operators and not large corporations
those owner / operators have in some cases several hundred thousand dollars in those trucks most well over a hundred thousand
so Having driven a 18 wheeler I can tell you these guys aren't reckless and if they have a drink or a toke they make sure not to drive
If they loose their lic. for doing something stupid they also loose their Truck and their livelihood and that lic. is hard enough to get as it is and there are a lot of regulations they have to obey or loose it too
Have a nice day
 
Cool. The solution to the long haul trucker shortage that existed before the pandemic coming sooner.
The shortage of truck drivers has been going on for 20+ years. Low pay, risk and long hours away from home are part of it.
 
You clearly don't get sarcasm. Or maybe you just didn't see Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm's interview where she laughed about it?
Because those people that believe Biden can correct all these supply and fuel issues are hilarious. They have no clue. So, laughing at them is the normal thing to do.
 
You use your intellect to make a good argument but are simply wrong in trading off too many liberties for a little extra security.
I disagree with where you draw the line. So do the overwhelming majority of Americans.

Where do you draw that line, exactly? Which of the following do you want to get rid of? For example....
• All mandatory vaccinations
• The entire CDC
• Building codes and zoning laws
• Seat belt laws
• Speed limits
• Government regulation of food
• Social Security
• The NSA
• Regulation of airwaves and telecoms

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

It historically has never ended well for a society when the state begins to dictate how the masses should live on every level.
Good news, everyone! I don't recommend anything remotely along those lines. And I can even give you tons of examples of how America itself forcibly inoculated citizens, multiple times, without sliding into totalitarianism.

People have to have the freedom to make their own mistakes to live, learn and grow or you end up with a civilization with no incentive to excel and be unique, like communism.
Nope, nope. There is no reason whatsoever to see adding a new vaccine mandate as the last pebble that causes an avalanche towards totalitarianism. That's just self-serving nonsense, which also conveniently ignores all sorts of ways the US has expanded liberties over time.

By the way, how did most Communist nations get that way? It wasn't a result of incremental changes by democratically elected officials over decades. No, it was almost always the result of decades, if not centuries, of inefficient autocratic rule, which sparked a violent revolution. And for every left-wing autocrat elected into office (e.g. Chavez, Correa), there is at least one right-wing autocrat elected into office (Suharto, Fujimori, Erdogan, Orban etc).

Your philosophy of governance robs people of self-determination. In psychology, self-determination is an important concept that refers to each person's ability to make choices and manage their own life.
lol... No, that's utter nonsense. I just realize that a critical -- if not primary -- role of government is to protect its citizens from harm.

I also recognize that the dangers of bungee jumping are different than that of COVID. You aren't going to get someone else hurt by choosing to bungee jump; you have a high chance of getting someone else sick if you refuse to vaccinate. (Oh wait, I forgot -- bungee jumping is also regulated. D'oh!)

I mean, really. When you think of Americans in 1900, do you think they're a bunch of pansies who lost the ability to take care of themselves because they were forcibly inoculated against smallpox?
 
No its that truckers listen to more lunatic talk radio than anyone else, and as a result, they have irrational fears of being vaccinated. The fact is, there is not a rational or science based reason not to be vaccinated against COVID unless your doctor instructs you not to be for specific medical reasons.
Fake news, of course.
You wouldn't believe all the partisan garbage that your read.

Oh my, somebody is actually looking beyond the headlines. Walmart is one of the premier company to work for as a driver, they have a turnover rate of 3%. Retirements mainly. Walmarts DOT record is steller for their size company. Werner, Swift and the other major trucking companies have a turnover of well over 90%. A lot have 100+ percent turnovers. These companies are used as stepping stones to a better company. Their DOT records are shall we say less than stellar.

As for vaccination most drivers are independent by nature, they want to be left alone, hence the job choice. Most don't cotton to the BS being spouted by the vaccination Nazi's. They do their own thing and don't care about what they consider your problems.
 
Democrats should weave this into their midterms message. It goes well with their view of people who are having a hard time with rising prices.
We'll deal with it by refusing effective medical care for those who get Covid19 and refused to get vaccinated. The saving will be enormous. Most of them probably don't have medical coverage anyhow and expect others to pay for their refusal to get vaccinated.
 
Oh my, somebody is actually looking beyond the headlines. Walmart is one of the premier company to work for as a driver, they have a turnover rate of 3%. Retirements mainly. Walmarts DOT record is steller for their size company. Werner, Swift and the other major trucking companies have a turnover of well over 90%. A lot have 100+ percent turnovers. These companies are used as stepping stones to a better company. Their DOT records are shall we say less than stellar.

As for vaccination most drivers are independent by nature, they want to be left alone, hence the job choice. Most don't cotton to the BS being spouted by the vaccination Nazi's. They do their own thing and don't care about what they consider your problems.
1. Unless the people that are advocating for vaccinations are also responsible for genocide, slave labor, and death camps, then they are not "Nazis". In fact, every actual self professed Nazi in the country was a proud Trump voter.

2. If a driver's company has a vaccine mandate, it is likely because they provide insurance for that driver, and thus they have a strong financial incentive for that driver to be vaccinated. If you vaccinated, you are 4.5 times less likely to get COVID, 10 times less likely to be hospitalized with it, and 11 times less likely to die from COVID. A Covid vaccination costs an insurer around 18 dollars. In contrast, the average COVID hospitalization costs an insurer over $73,000. Thus companies have a strong financial incentive for their employees to be vaccinated. If they are self insured, which many companies are, they have a very strong incentive for their employees to be vaccinated. If you were looking at shelling out an average of $73k for COVID hospitalizations, I would imagine you would demand anyone working for you would be vaccinated. Individuals might make stupid irrational decisions and thus avoid being vaccinated, but companies that want to stay in business have to act rationally.
 
1. Unless the people that are advocating for vaccinations are also responsible for genocide, slave labor, and death camps, then they are not "Nazis". In fact, every actual self professed Nazi in the country was a proud Trump voter.

2. If a driver's company has a vaccine mandate, it is likely because they provide insurance for that driver, and thus they have a strong financial incentive for that driver to be vaccinated. If you vaccinated, you are 4.5 times less likely to get COVID, 10 times less likely to be hospitalized with it, and 11 times less likely to die from COVID. A Covid vaccination costs an insurer around 18 dollars. In contrast, the average COVID hospitalization costs an insurer over $73,000. Thus companies have a strong financial incentive for their employees to be vaccinated. If they are self insured, which many companies are, they have a very strong incentive for their employees to be vaccinated. If you were looking at shelling out an average of $73k for COVID hospitalizations, I would imagine you would demand anyone working for you would be vaccinated. Individuals might make stupid irrational decisions and thus avoid being vaccinated, but companies that want to stay in business have to act rationally.
1. Vaccine advocates are Nazis. Period. Authoritarians all.
2. You can spout all the BS you want, bottom line is unless the company is willing to compensate their employees for getting a permanent experimental medical procedure and to cover any side effects resulting from said procedure regardless of time, then they are full of crap as are the insurance companies imposing these vaccines. Push comes to shove the insurance companies will not cover the adverse reactions from experimental vaccines. Drivers aren't stupid, and they are used to companies trying to screw them so they dont take kindly to jackwagons forcing BS on them.
 
1. Vaccine advocates are Nazis. Period. Authoritarians all.
2. You can spout all the BS you want, bottom line is unless the company is willing to compensate their employees for getting a permanent experimental medical procedure and to cover any side effects resulting from said procedure regardless of time, then they are full of crap as are the insurance companies imposing these vaccines. Push comes to shove the insurance companies will not cover the adverse reactions from experimental vaccines. Drivers aren't stupid, and they are used to companies trying to screw them so they dont take kindly to jackwagons forcing BS on them.
We've had mandated vaccines here in America for over 200 years (1809- Smallpox). In 1905 the Supreme Court validated their constitutionality. Why all the outrage now?
 
1. Vaccine advocates are Nazis. Period. Authoritarians all.
2. You can spout all the BS you want, bottom line is unless the company is willing to compensate their employees for getting a permanent experimental medical procedure and to cover any side effects resulting from said procedure regardless of time, then they are full of crap as are the insurance companies imposing these vaccines. Push comes to shove the insurance companies will not cover the adverse reactions from experimental vaccines. Drivers aren't stupid, and they are used to companies trying to screw them so they dont take kindly to jackwagons forcing BS on them.
That post is pure crazy.
 
The shortage of truck drivers has been going on for 20+ years. Low pay, risk and long hours away from home are part of it.
Maybe if they had been hiring women those numbers wouldn't be that bad? Or maybe it's just that women are smart enough to recognize jobs that have low pay, high risk and require you to be way from home alot as not being very good jobs?
 
We've had mandated vaccines here in America for over 200 years (1809- Smallpox). In 1905 the Supreme Court validated their constitutionality. Why all the outrage now?
Is that what you think? Pity, its only based on what you heard. You might want to find more complete sources, yours fail you miserably.
 
40% of America's trucking capacity is left on the table every day, MIT expert tells Congress

American long-haul truck drivers are “seriously underutilized,” and the problem comes from the scheduling practices of shippers and receivers, an expert from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology told U.S. lawmakers on Wednesday.

“This chronic underutilization problem does not seem to be a function of what the drivers themselves do or don’t do, but rather an unfortunate consequence of our conventions for scheduling and processing the pickup and delivery appointments,” said David Correll, a research scientist at MIT’s Center for Transportation and Logistics, as he testified before the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Long-haul, full-truckload drivers spend an average of 6.5 hours every workday driving, even though federal safety regulations let them drive for 11 hours a day, Correll said.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ess/ar-AAQPaz0
 
Is that what you think? Pity, its only based on what you heard. You might want to find more complete sources, yours fail you miserably.
Ah? The "fake news" defense..... Shall I bombard you with citations? Or perhaps coming to ones senses and accepting established reality would be a better choice?
 
Ah? The "fake news" defense..... Shall I bombard you with citations? Or perhaps coming to ones senses and accepting established reality would be a better choice?
If you think I am going to sit here and go back and forth with you, I suggest you rethink that plan. You either know how to find the actual information on the subjects or you dont, in any case I dont care and am not interested in trying move the immovable. I will leave you with one piece of info, the Supreme court case from the early 1900's was about a fine of $5 or about $150 in todays money. No one in that case was forced to get a vaccination. They were just allowed to be fined for not having the vaccination. Thats the case a bunch of people say that one can be forced to be vaccinated. That said you can cite all you like and have all the last words you like. Have fun.
 
If you think I am going to sit here and go back and forth with you, I suggest you rethink that plan. You either know how to find the actual information on the subjects or you dont, in any case I dont care and am not interested in trying move the immovable. I will leave you with one piece of info, the Supreme court case from the early 1900's was about a fine of $5 or about $150 in todays money. No one in that case was forced to get a vaccination. They were just allowed to be fined for not having the vaccination. Thats the case a bunch of people say that one can be forced to be vaccinated. That said you can cite all you like and have all the last words you like. Have fun.
What an incredibly moronic contention. You cannot change the fact that we've had mandated vaccines here in America for over 200 years (1809- Smallpox) and that in 1905 the Supreme Court validated their constitutionality. Your kids have to be vaccinated to attend public school and your going to have to be vaccinated -by law (mandate) to travel to certain areas of the World. Yet now..... All of a sudden..... You've decided to parrot the outrage of the alt-right MSM concerning vaccine mandates. Let me ask you, do you ever think for yourself?..... Or is it your habit to just parrot the words you hear coming from Tucker Carlson's mouth?

 
Maybe if they had been hiring women those numbers wouldn't be that bad? Or maybe it's just that women are smart enough to recognize jobs that have low pay, high risk and require you to be way from home alot as not being very good jobs?
Much of trucking is a physical job that many women cannot or don't want to do. There is also an undesirable group of people that many people don't want to deal with because of the risk of assault. I wouldn't want to do it.
 
Much of trucking is a physical job that many women cannot or don't want to do. There is also an undesirable group of people that many people don't want to deal with because of the risk of assault. I wouldn't want to do it.
Not sure where you're getting your information, but you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

"Undesirable group of people"?? WTF?? Like Hillary's "basket of deplorables"??

Elitest snob much??
 
Not sure where you're getting your information, but you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

"Undesirable group of people"?? WTF?? Like Hillary's "basket of deplorables"??

Elitest snob much??
There are many undesirable people around loading docks, warehouses, and truck stops.

 
There are many undesirable people around loading docks, warehouses, and truck stops.

There are "undesirable" people everywhere - especially in big cities, which are of course ant hills for Democrats. For Truckers, or anyone, the worst places to go are the areas completely controlled by Democrats.

I own a small trucking company with my brother, and I spend more time on the road than the office out preference. I'm in a truck stop in South Carolina right now, trying to make it home to Wisconsin for Thanksgiving.

There are plenty of women truckers these days, and none of them have any trouble. If there were a problem, every trucker in the lot would come her defense. We hired a young woman who immigrated from Ukraine a few years ago. She's petite, very attractive, and she loves trucking. We pay her well, we treat her well - like all of our drivers.

Truckers are honest, hardworking Americans - and I can assure you it is not "low pay".

Owner/operators usually make somewhere around $100K+/year. Company drivers $60K+.

I'm in the business. You read some article written by some out of touch progressive, and think you know the score?? Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about.
 
I disagree with where you draw the line. So do the overwhelming majority of Americans.

Where do you draw that line, exactly? Which of the following do you want to get rid of? For example....
• All mandatory vaccinations
• The entire CDC
• Building codes and zoning laws
• Seat belt laws
• Speed limits
• Government regulation of food
• Social Security
• The NSA
• Regulation of airwaves and telecoms

How deep does the rabbit hole go?


Good news, everyone! I don't recommend anything remotely along those lines. And I can even give you tons of examples of how America itself forcibly inoculated citizens, multiple times, without sliding into totalitarianism.


Nope, nope. There is no reason whatsoever to see adding a new vaccine mandate as the last pebble that causes an avalanche towards totalitarianism. That's just self-serving nonsense, which also conveniently ignores all sorts of ways the US has expanded liberties over time.

By the way, how did most Communist nations get that way? It wasn't a result of incremental changes by democratically elected officials over decades. No, it was almost always the result of decades, if not centuries, of inefficient autocratic rule, which sparked a violent revolution. And for every left-wing autocrat elected into office (e.g. Chavez, Correa), there is at least one right-wing autocrat elected into office (Suharto, Fujimori, Erdogan, Orban etc).


lol... No, that's utter nonsense. I just realize that a critical -- if not primary -- role of government is to protect its citizens from harm.

I also recognize that the dangers of bungee jumping are different than that of COVID. You aren't going to get someone else hurt by choosing to bungee jump; you have a high chance of getting someone else sick if you refuse to vaccinate. (Oh wait, I forgot -- bungee jumping is also regulated. D'oh!)

I mean, really. When you think of Americans in 1900, do you think they're a bunch of pansies who lost the ability to take care of themselves because they were forcibly inoculated against smallpox?

Twisting my comment's intentions to the absurd extremes and making excuses for flawed logic doesn't improve your case.

And telling people how to live will eventually cause a backlash like the violence spreading across the country. You can pontificate and deny it but reality will always trump your opinion.
 
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