Troops In Iraq Still Don't Have Humvee Armor (Pics & Video)

[M14 Shooter]

To those of us who know better than to listen to political masters....we know what President Bush has done.

Sent you to die in a useless, needless, illegal, unilateral war for oil?
:roll:

 

[MSgt]

Sent you to die in a useless, needless, illegal, unilateral war for oil?
:roll:

Aw yes. The hypocritical cry of the Global left. They always try so hard to exonerate their weaknesses and slothfullness by pointing out mistakes of the active.

 

[Stinger]

As I said: You are completely ignorant as to how military logistics works.
The SECDEF doesnt just say "give them this" and 30 minutes later everyone that was to get it, gets it.

If a no-bid ocntract had been given to Haliburton and they had produced the armour for every vehicle in one day and were able to install it on every vehicle the next day and not one more soldier was killed..................the anti-bush crowd would complain it was a no-bid contract and Bush was just enriching his buddies.

 

[Caine]

If a no-bid ocntract had been given to Haliburton and they had produced the armour for every vehicle in one day and were able to install it on every vehicle the next day and not one more soldier was killed..................the anti-bush crowd would complain it was a no-bid contract and Bush was just enriching his buddies.

Negative, you are bringing more ignorant Partisan Politics into the discussion.
This argument has no place in this debate at all, and is not contributing.
Now, stay on topic, and stop spinning the debate.

 

[remove]

there's absolutely no support for the argument that it's unfeasible.

if you're so sure, then perhaps you can provide us with evidence that it has ever worked properly in testing, or shows any signs of ever working.



http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2004/08/00_wilder_blast-past-missile-defense.htm

 

[MSgt]

A lot of good things came from "SDI/Star Wars." The more it is worked on, the better the program gets. There is nothing "unfeasable" about it. There is no practical current way to defend our country against a launched nuclear missile. Eventually, it will do what we want it to and our allies will be busy kissing our asses to get a piece of it.


What does all of this have to do with UpArmour.....or is this thread merely a disguise to bash a President?

 

[M14 Shooter]

if you're so sure, then perhaps you can provide us with evidence that it has ever worked properly in testing, or shows any signs of ever working.

Quite easily done.

Of the 8 hit-to-kill Interceptor Flight Tests (IFT), 5 resulted in kills on the target. The 3 misses were due to failure in surrogate systems, not any of the systems being tested.

http://www.cdi.org/missile-defense/tests-gmd.cfm

Eat it and smile.:mrgreen:

 

[M14 Shooter]

What does all of this have to do with UpArmour.....or is this thread merely a disguise to bash a President?

Someone whined that 'if Bush hadn't spend so much on the failed Star Wars propgram, maybe we'd have the money for Humvee armor'.

Just trying to educate the ignorant.

 

[MSgt]

Someone whined that 'if Bush hadn't spend so much on the failed Star Wars propgram, maybe we'd have the money for Humvee armor'.

Just trying to educate the ignorant.

Well that was a retarded thing to say. It smacks of designed ignorance.

I walked around in blood stained cammies for a couple weeks once, because of a contractor I carried that got hit. I guess I would have had them replaced faster if it wasn't for defense spending going to "Star Wars.":roll:

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well that was a retarded thing to say. It smacks of designed ignorance.
I walked around in blood stained cammies for a couple weeks once, because of a contractor I carried that got hit. I guess I would have had them replaced faster if it wasn't for defense spending going to "Star Wars.":roll:

You note that they dont ever say "If we had not spent $1345B on federal welfare programs, there might have been money for Humvee armor".

 

[MSgt]

You note that they dont ever say "If we had not spent $1345B on federal welfare programs, there might have been money for Humvee armor".

It's just selective complaining. If a person wishes to complain about something, there will always be something to base it on. What better way to complain about an administration you don't like than by attacking any mundane detail regarding the military. It happens all of the time. All use the military for their own agendas.

For example...During Vietnam we were "baby killers." Today, they portray us as helpless victims of American imperialism (although they showed their true colors during the Abu Ghraib affair, when they were delighted to claim that the actions of a handful of renegades exemplified the behavior of our entire military).

It's a funy thing. Democrats claim that the Republicans are "using" the military for their own neo-con endeavors. Republicans claim that the Democrats are "using" the military for their own agenda in the next election. Either way....the military is used by all one way or the other.

The author of this thread fell right in line with the rest of them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's just selective complaining.
The author of this thread fell right in line with the rest of them.

None of these people would say a thing if GWB had a (D) next to his name.

 

[Caine]

None of these people would say a thing if GWB had a (D) next to his name.

Yep... I would... Why?
Because I didn't give a **** about Politics Until he showed up and sent my ass off to war, then while I was there I learned he didn't know how to read intelligence reports.... thats what got me into it.

But hey, everyone starts somewhere.

 

[M14 Shooter]

while I was there I learned he didn't know how to read intelligence reports

Nor could anyone else, apparently, given there was little, if any, dissent as to what the reports said.

But lets not let reality intrude here.

 

[Caine]

Nor could anyone else, apparently, given there was little, if any, dissent as to what the reports said.

But lets not let reality intrude here.

Ummm.... If I am the NCO in charge of a team, and we fail, who do they blame?

Case in point.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ummm.... If I am the NCO in charge of a team, and we fail, who do they blame?
Case in point.

Your're avoiding your own issue.

 

[Caine]

Your're avoiding your own issue.

No, your refusing to accept my analogy.

 

[oldreliable67]

nationalreview has an interesting column today titled, "The "Ultimate Betrayal"? Humvee realities". Here are a couple of excerpts...

"Why is it taking so long to design, develop, produce, and deploy — in adequate numbers — a troop-transporting armored vehicle that would replace the up-armored Humvee in Iraq? I've been asked that question time and again, not by soldiers and Marines who ride in Humvees daily, but by fellow journalists, many of whom have logged time in Iraq or Afghanistan.
...
"We can protect from some," Brigadier General David L. Grange (U.S. Army, ret.) tells National Review Online. "But now that the IEDs [improvised explosive devices] are made with shaped charges or just an extraordinary amount of explosive power, even an M-1 tank isn't safe enough. [Even if it was] you can't just give everyone an M-1 tank, especially if they are moving logistics."
...
Humvees, which replaced the Jeep in the 1980s, have since performed as well as they were designed to perform. But in 2003, the IED was brought to the fight. The Army responded by launching a crash program to up-armor the thousands of Humvees in Iraq in late 2003.

The following May, the U.S. Senate approved $618 million for the massive production of up-armored Humvees through the spring of 2006. Another $610 million was also approved to up-armor the existing tactical vehicles (neither of which help the fact that the vehicle has a flat-bottom — as opposed to a V-shaped hull bottom — leaving it still-vulnerable to landmines and IEDs.). Meanwhile, the U.S. Defense Department has been looking into new, safer vehicle designs and posting "requests for information" to determine which companies could and would manufacture a new vehicle from scratch. None of which could have been accomplished in anyone's army in a few weeks or months.
...
Earlier this month, I became the first journalist to ride in the prototype vehicle for what may well be the replacement for the up-armored Humvee. The prototype vehicle is known as the Mine-protected Utility Vehicle/Rapid Deployable (MUV-R). Earlier names included "Lion," that name was scrapped because, as Joynt says, the King of Swaziland's armored vehicle was christened, "Lion." The next name was "Kodiak," but Chevrolet was first with that moniker.

The MUV-R's manufacturer, South Carolina-based Force Protection, is currently producing much-larger mine-and-blast protective vehicles — the Buffalo and the Cougar — which are already in service with U.S. forces in Iraq. The Buffalo, which CBS News' Bob Schieffer called a "Humvee on steroids," is a mine-clearance vehicle. The Cougar is a troop transport, but geared for the same market that the M113 armored personnel carrier would be. Not a Humvee."

An interesting and pretty comprehensive article. Recommended reading for those interested in the topic.

 

[MSgt]

Yep... I would... Why?
Because I didn't give a **** about Politics Until he showed up and sent my ass off to war, then while I was there I learned he didn't know how to read intelligence reports.... thats what got me into it.

But hey, everyone starts somewhere.

Actually, what got you into it was your own signature and you haven't done any of your own study into the Middle East and come to the realization that our securities are in the hands of men that recognize that a civilization is deternmined to digress into further violence against your country.

Sooner or later, there will be a nuclear explosion on our soil. What country will it come from....Iran, Saudi, Syria, Iraq? One thing is for sure....it will be some of the Islamic extremists from the millions of Muslims in this region that hate us and none of their governments will claim the attack.

This civilization must change and not Saddam, Khomeini, the Arab elite, Khudafi, and other symptoms of this civilizations decay will or was going to lift a finger to move their societies into the 21st century with the rest of us.


How do things look now?

1) The Jordanian King wants his country to progress from a monarchy to a democracy.

2) Refomists in Syria are voicing for democracy against their Baathist leaders and being imprisoned for it.

3) 70 percent of the Iranian population is under 30 and they are disenchanted with their Mullahs and government. They have wanted a more democratic nation for years prior to our invasion in to Iraq.

4) No more Saddam and Iraq is doing their best to achieve a stable democracy.

This is all due and has been encouraged by your actions in Iraq. Don't be so quick to throw yourself into the same lot that can't recognize the bigger threat and the bigger picture so they instead mire themselves in the mundane details that come with all wars.

 

[Caine]

Actually, what got you into it was your own signature and you haven't done any of your own study into the Middle East and come to the realization that our securities are in the hands of men that recognize that a civilization is deternmined to digress into further violence against your country.

Sooner or later, there will be a nuclear explosion on our soil. What country will it come from....Iran, Saudi, Syria, Iraq? One thing is for sure....it will be some of the Islamic extremists from the millions of Muslims in this region that hate us and none of their governments will claim the attack.

This civilization must change and not Saddam, Khomeini, the Arab elite, Khudafi, and other symptoms of this civilizations decay will or was going to lift a finger to move their societies into the 21st century with the rest of us.


How do things look now?

1) The Jordanian King wants his country to progress from a monarchy to a democracy.

2) Refomists in Syria are voicing for democracy against their Baathist leaders and being imprisoned for it.

3) 70 percent of the Iranian population is under 30 and they are disenchanted with their Mullahs and government. They have wanted a more democratic nation for years prior to our invasion in to Iraq.

4) No more Saddam and Iraq is doing their best to achieve a stable democracy.

This is all due and has been encouraged by your actions in Iraq. Don't be so quick to throw yourself into the same lot that can't recognize the bigger threat and the bigger picture so they instead mire themselves in the mundane details that come with all wars.

Ummmm... No. What got me into it was what I said got me into it.

What are you gonna do? huh?