Trinity: Fact or Fiction?

[dthmstr254]

Why are you quoting fairy tales at me?

What are fairy tales supposed to prove?

the Bible is not a fairy tale. its contents are proven by several thousand other ancient documents, such as the writings of Josephus, especially his Testimonium Flaviatus. the gospels are very reliable biographies of Jesus. in fact, the first books in the NT that were written are the epistles of Paul and other apostles and they already said that the scriptures stated that Jesus rose from the dead. the first gospel that was written was the gospel of Mark, written between the years of 55 and 65 AD. the Epistles of Paul first showed up in 50 AD. the previously mentioned writing by Josephus says that Jesus "was the Christ". even more corroborating evidence for it.
also, the Illiad by Homer, written in the BC, didnt see its first copy until 1000 years later, while the first copy of the Bible was only a few decades after its coompletion, and there are over 5000 Greek copies catologued today.

 

[dthmstr254]

See the attachment below?

It is Ahura Mazda: this is where Christians got the idea of Heaven and Hell.

actually, it is the Bible where they found it. the Bible first talks of hell in the Old Testament, which was finished more than 200 years before Christianity was founded.

 

[Lucidthots]

actually, it is the Bible where they found it. the Bible first talks of hell in the Old Testament, which was finished more than 200 years before Christianity was founded.

The "Jews" lived in Babylon under the Persian Empire circa 581 bc.

That is when they compiled the Torah. (current)

The original Torah of the Hebrews probably only contained the "Commandments" or religious Law, and other religious literature developed while in Egypt, as the religious beliefs of the Hebrews likely originated out of Akhenaton's monotheism, which itself likely originated among the "villagers" along the banks of the Nile.....not out of the Aristocracy of the Pharoahnic Dynasty....the change from traditional Egyptian art to the humble imagary of Akhenaton is a tradition which was further amplified and carried forth by the Hebrews out of Egypt and by many of todays "traditionalist" Christian and Muslim sects.


The religion of the Persians was the Monotheistic Religion of "Zoroastrianism,"
a religion which was rooted in the duality of "Heaven and Hell" and "Good and Evil."

The "Jews," while in diaspora in Babylon, named themselves after King Gudea of Lagash who was famous for his stone Temples built of Cedar from Lebanon and precious stones from Assyria (Solomons Temples).

The Jews plagiarised Babylonian Mythology and invented their heritage out of these old Mesopotamian Legends and added these plagiarisms to the Torah in order to invent a heritage that they could use as a direct link, through "Solomon" through "Noah" through "Adam" and thereby directly to GOD as a "racial" line.

The racial descendancy of the Jews is a complete hoax, the Jews are the descendants of the Hapiru, a semi-nomadic band of "Desert Pirates."

The Hapiru lived essentially like Gypsies, squatting on other peoples land and stealing anything and everything not nailed down.

Some Hapiru ended up in Egypt, where they found religion.

King Gudea (Judea)

 

[dthmstr254]

The "Jews" lived in Babylon under the Persian Empire circa 581 bc.

That is when they compiled the Torah. (current)

The original Torah of the Hebrews probably only contained the Commandments and other basic religious Law, as the Hebrews were likely descendants of Akhenaton's monotheism, which itself likely originated among the "villagers" along the banks of the Nile.....not out of the Aristocracy of the Pharoahnic Dynasty..

The religion of the Persians was the Monotheistic Religion of "Zoroastrianism."

The "Jews," while in diaspora in Babylon, named themselves after King Gudea of Lagash who was famous for his stone Temples built of Cedar from Lebanon and precious stones from Assyria (Solomons Temples).

The Jews plagiarised Babylonian Mythology and invented their heritage out of these old Mesopotamian Legends and added these plagiarisms to the Torah in order to invent a heritage that they could use as a direct link, through "Solomon" through "Noah" through "Adam" and thereby directly to GOD as a "racial" line.

The racial descendancy of the Jews is a complete hoax, the Jews are the descendants of the Hapiru, a semi-nomadic band of "Desert Pirates."

The Hapiru lived essentially like Gypsies, squatting on other peoples land and stealing anything and everything not nailed down.

Some Hapiru ended up in Egypt, where they found religion.

King Gudea (Judea)

here is a newsflash from history:

The biblical King David of Israel was known for his diverse skills as both a warrior and a writer of psalms. In his 40 years as ruler, between approximately 1010 and 970 B.C.E., he united the people of Israel, led them to victory in battle, conquered land and paved the way for his son, Solomon, to build the Holy Temple. Almost all knowledge of him is derived from the books of the Prophets and Writings: Samuel I and II, Kings I and Chronicles I.

so, at least that much was written long before the writing date you proposed. let us see what else was written before 500 BCE (BC). Wikipedia puts moses in the following light:

According to the Hebrew Bible, Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt, and received the Torah of Judaism from God on Mount Sinai. The Torah contains the life story of Moses and his people until his death at the age of 120 years, according to some calculations in the year 2488, or 1272 BC/BCE. Consequently, "may you live to 120" has become a common blessing among Jews.

they also say:

It has been traditionally assumed that Moses received from God and subsequently transcribed all, or almost all, of the Torah, and this is still the view of much of Christianity and most of Orthodox Judaism. However, advances in textual criticism have convinced many Bible scholars and historians that this work, in the form we know it today, was edited together from several earlier sources. This idea is discussed in the entry on the documentary hypothesis. Others, especially Biblical literalists, still hold the traditional viewpoint that it is authored by Moses. It is, of course, uncertain objectively speaking which of these views is correct, but later verses in the Old Testament (Such as 2 Chronicles 25:4, Ezra 6:18, and Nehemiah 13:1) refer to the Torah as the "Book of Moses," and thus seem to support the latter of the two views over the former...........

so now it was written by people even earlier than the traditional dates.
the next we can deal with is Joseph.

Book of Joshua




Author: The Book of Joshua does not explicitly name its author. More than likely Joshua the son of Nun, the successor of Moses as leader over Israel, penned much of this book. The latter part of the book was written by at least one other person after the death of Joshua. It is also possible that several sections were edited / complied following Joshua's death.



Date of Writing: The Book of Joshua was likely written between 1400 and 1370 B.C.



Purpose of Writing: The Book of Joshua provides an overview of the military campaigns to conquer the land area that God had promised. Following the exodus from Egypt and the subsequent forty years of the wilderness wonderings, the newly formed nation is now poised to enter the Promised Land, conquer the inhabitants and occupy the territory. The overview that we have here gives abbreviated and selective details of many of the battles and the manner in which the land was not only conquered, but how it was divided into tribal areas.

Ezekiel:

His ministry extended over twenty-three years 595 - 573 BCE (29:17), during part of which he was contemporary with Daniel (14:14; 28:3) and Jeremiah, and probably also with Obadiah. The time and manner of his death are unknown. His reputed tomb is pointed out in the neighbourhood of Baghdad, at a place called Keffil.

man, that is the first book written in the 500s BC. seems like you have been derailed. :smile:

 

[Lucidthots]

here is a newsflash from history:


so, at least that much was written long before the writing date you proposed. let us see what else was written before 500 BCE (BC). Wikipedia puts moses in the following light:



they also say:


so now it was written by people even earlier than the traditional dates.
the next we can deal with is Joseph.


Ezekiel:

man, that is the first book written in the 500s BC. seems like you have been derailed. :smile:

These writings were all compiled in Babylon in 581 bc.

They are a hoax.

Solomon never existed, it is "King Gudea" who the story is based off of.

The "Jews" stole everyone elses mythology and legends and then said it was exclusive to their people.

Such people are pathological liars.

 

[dthmstr254]

These writings were all compiled in Babylon in 581 bc.

They are a hoax.

Solomon never existed, it is "King Gudea" who the story is based off of.

The "Jews" stole everyone elses mythology and legends and then said it was exclusive to their people.

Such people are pathological liars.

Gudea was a ruler (ensi) of the city of Lagash in Southern Mesopotamia who ruled ca. 2144 - 2124 BC. He probably did not come from the city, but had married Ninalla, daughter of the ruler Urbaba (2164 - 2144 BC) of Lagash, thus gaining entrance to the royal house of Lagash. He was succeeded by his son Ur-Ningirsu.

the Jews were called Jews after the city of Jerusalem. here is where Wikipedia says they come from:
Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. For discussions of the religious views on who is a Jew and how these views differ from each other, please see Who is a Jew?. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), people without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism; and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jewish by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people.

Historical definitions of Jewish identity have traditionally been based on Halakhic definitions of matrilinial descent, and halachic conversions. Historical definitions of who is a Jew date back to the codification of the oral traditon into the Babylonian Talmud. Biblical interpertations of sections in the Tanach, such as Deuteronomy 7:1-5, by learned Jewish sages, is used as a warning against intermarriage between of Jews and non Jews because "[the non-Jewish male spouse] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others." Leviticus 24:10 speaks of the son in a marriage between a Hebrew woman and an Egyptian man to be "of the community of Israel.", which contrasts with Ezra 10:2-3, where Israelites returning from Egypt, vowed to put aside their gentile wives and their children. Since the Haskalah, these halachic interpertations of Jewish identity have been challenged.

so you are at least right about WHEN the term Jew was born, but not where it came from. The Old Testament was NOT compiled at that time, i would like to see ANY CREDIBLE source that says that. cause you have yet to back it up. right now, it still lies in the realm of your and only your opinion.
i have a question, why name yourself after a person from a pagan nation and then say that you are not allowed to worship their gods, seems kind of counterproductive now doesnt it?

 

[Lucidthots]

Gudea was a ruler (ensi) of the city of Lagash in Southern Mesopotamia who ruled ca. 2144 - 2124 BC. He probably did not come from the city, but had married Ninalla, daughter of the ruler Urbaba (2164 - 2144 BC) of Lagash, thus gaining entrance to the royal house of Lagash. He was succeeded by his son Ur-Ningirsu.

the Jews were called Jews after the city of Jerusalem. here is where Wikipedia says they come from:
Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. For discussions of the religious views on who is a Jew and how these views differ from each other, please see Who is a Jew?. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), people without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism; and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jewish by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people.


so you are at least right about WHEN the term Jew was born, but not where it came from. The Old Testament was NOT compiled at that time, i would like to see ANY CREDIBLE source that says that. cause you have yet to back it up. right now, it still lies in the realm of your and only your opinion.
i have a question, why name yourself after a person from a pagan nation and then say that you are not allowed to worship their gods, seems kind of counterproductive now doesnt it?

I am not saying that GOD/IMMORTALITY is false.

All I am saying really, is that the "Jewish" bloodline is a hoax.

Noah/Utnapishtim
Moses/Akhenatoan
Solomon/Gudea

The "Jews" invented their heritage by plagiarizing Babylonian mythology and legend and saying it was exclusive to themselves.

These myths and legends had been part of Mesopotamian culture for thousands of years before the "Jews" came along.

That is what I am saying.

As for Wikipedia.......they do not know what I know about this subject.

Few people really do.

 

[dthmstr254]

I am not saying that GOD/IMMORTALITY is false.

All I am saying really, is that the "Jewish" bloodline is a hoax.

Noah/Utnapishtim
Moses/Akhenatoan
Solomon/Gudea

The "Jews" invented their heritage by plagiarizing Babylonian mythology and legend and saying it was exclusive to themselves.

These myths and legends had been part of Mesopotamian culture for thousands of years before the "Jews" came along.

That is what I am saying.

As for Wikipedia.......they do not know what I know about this subject.

Few people really do.

Wikipedia is the most renowned and trusted online encyclopedia known to the US. but for your satisfaction i will compare the dates that the people of whom you have mentioned have lived and you can make the distance between and connect the dots as to how they could not have been the same person. all the following quotes come from wikipedia.
Moses:

According to the Hebrew Bible, Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt, and received the Torah of Judaism from God on Mount Sinai. The Torah contains the life story of Moses and his people until his death at the age of 120 years, according to some calculations in the year 2488, or 1272 BC/BCE. Consequently, "may you live to 120" has become a common blessing among Jews

no akhenatoan, but there was an akhenaton:

Akhenaten, known as Amenhotep IV at the start of his reign, was a Pharaoh of the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt. He is thought to have been born to Amenhotep III and his Chief Queen Tiy in the year 26 of their reign (1379 BC or 1362 BC). Amenhotep IV succeeded his father after Amenhotep III's death at the end of his 38-year reign, possibly after a co-regency between the two of up to 12 years. Suggested dates for Akhenaten's reign (subject to the debates surrounding Egyptian chronology) are from 1367 BC to 1350 BC or from 1350 BC/1349 BC to 1334 BC/ 1333 BC. Akhenaten's chief wife was Nefertiti, who has been made famous by her bust in the Ägyptisches Museum in Berlin.

now we know that they lived in completely seperate timespans, and could not have been the same person, and second, Amenhotep never left Egypt for any reason, meaning he never could have been taken as Moses.
next i will deal with Utnapishtim:
your people are never more unbased by historical documents as this one.
the Bible is at least claimed to have some historical truths, but the Gilgamesh epic wasnt around at the time that the Jews were there. you also have to wonder, why are several of these books dating all the way back to the 12th and 13th century BC? probably because they were not written in 500 BC. besides, what of the post Babylonian parts, were they compiled in Babylon too?
also, Judaistic beliefs are dated as far back as the tenth century BC, they had to be a lot more relevant if written at the times i have cited. you have cited nothing, but i have cited everything i have said. please CITE your sources.

 

[Lucidthots]

Wikipedia is the most renowned and trusted online encyclopedia known to the US. but for your satisfaction i will compare the dates that the people of whom you have mentioned have lived and you can make the distance between and connect the dots as to how they could not have been the same person. all the following quotes come from wikipedia.
Moses:


no akhenatoan, but there was an akhenaton:


now we know that they lived in completely seperate timespans, and could not have been the same person, and second, Amenhotep never left Egypt for any reason, meaning he never could have been taken as Moses.
next i will deal with Utnapishtim:
your people are never more unbased by historical documents as this one.
the Bible is at least claimed to have some historical truths, but the Gilgamesh epic wasnt around at the time that the Jews were there. you also have to wonder, why are several of these books dating all the way back to the 12th and 13th century BC? probably because they were not written in 500 BC. besides, what of the post Babylonian parts, were they compiled in Babylon too?
also, Judaistic beliefs are dated as far back as the tenth century BC, they had to be a lot more relevant if written at the times i have cited. you have cited nothing, but i have cited everything i have said. please CITE your sources.

Most people have not read the Epic of Gilgamesh which features Utnapishtims flood.

Have you read it?

Most people do not know about King Gudea's Temple building projects.

It is quite obvious to me that the Jews plagiarised these works.

I think it should be obvious to anyone who looks at them without prejudice.

(Who are you referring to when you said, "your people?")

 

[Lucidthots]

Utnapishtim:
your people are never more unbased by historical documents as this one.
the Bible is at least claimed to have some historical truths, but the Gilgamesh epic wasnt around at the time that the Jews were there.

Here is a picture of the Tablet featuring: UTNAPISHTIM'S FLOOD.

THIS DOCUMENT PROVES THAT THE "JEWISH BLOODLINE" IS A HOAX!

 

[dthmstr254]

Most people have not read the Epic of Gilgamesh which features Utnapishtims flood.

Have you read it?

Most people do not know about King Gudea's Temple building projects.

It is quite obvious to me that the Jews plagiarised these works.

I think it should be obvious to anyone who looks at them without prejudice.

(Who are you referring to when you said, "your people?")

I have read a portion of it, and the exact portion that included the flood is what was required in my Literature class. its now required reading. i have a problem with people who claim that the Jews plagiarised the works, especially when there is historical evidence that the documents date back to a millenia before the works that were plagiarized from existed. i have to admit though, this is a lot more interesting than listening to repeated "holy trinity explained" posts .
I have looked at them without prejudice, and have found that my take on them is more credible than the one you have proposed, for reasons i base on solid research and the fact that i have encountered this type of argument before. although i have to admit it was even more farfetched than yours. if you read back into the "who killed Jesus" thread, you will find a person nicknamed "clone" who came up with a theory that the Jesus who died on the cross was really a man named Isa and that they know where Isa'a tomb is and that his footprints still reside in the same spot!!!! last i checked, it has rained in that area of the middle east since that time. would that be a safe assumption that the rain would wash away any footprints?

 

[dthmstr254]

as a note: i would like to say that you, Lucidthots, have gained a high measure of respect from me at least, and maybe a few others who are similarly aligned, although i will not speak for them. i would like to ask. is it not also possible that other mythological beliefs can find their roots in Judaism, instead of the other way around? is that not a possibility?

 

[Lucidthots]

W........for your satisfaction i will compare the dates that the people of whom you have mentioned have lived and you can make the distance between and connect the dots as to how they could not have been the same person. all the following quotes come from wikipedia.
Moses:


akhenaton:


now we know that they lived in completely seperate timespans, and could not have been the same person, and second, Amenhotep never left Egypt for any reason, meaning he never could have been taken as Moses.
next i will deal with .......

Not only did Moses and Akhenaton live in different "time spans".......they lived in different "universes."

Akhenaton lived in this universe and Moses lived in someones imagination because the story of Moses is a myth.

Why are you comparing actual people to imaginary people?

 

[Lucidthots]

as a note: i would like to say that you, Lucidthots, have gained a high measure of respect from me at least, and maybe a few others who are similarly aligned, although i will not speak for them. i would like to ask. is it not also possible that other mythological beliefs can find their roots in Judaism, instead of the other way around? is that not a possibility?

1) I sincerely appreciate the kind words.....

2) No

Let me reiterate that I do not suggest that GOD does not exist.

I stand by the idea that we all originate out of GOD and that we shall all return to GOD in the end!

Our destiny is inescapable!

 

[dthmstr254]

1) I sincerely appreciate the kind words.....

2) No

Let me reiterate that I do not suggest that GOD does not exist.

I stand by the idea that we all originate out of GOD and that we shall all return to GOD in the end!

Our destiny is inescapable!

would you care to explain where you came by this idea?

 

[Lucidthots]

would you care to explain where you came by this idea?

THE HOLY TRINITY:

ALL LIFE/SELF ORIGINATES OUT OF --GOD.

LIFE/SELF COMES INTO BEING IN THE WORLD AS --FLESH.

AT DEATH, LIFE/SELF RETURNS TO ITS ORIGIN, WHICH IS--GOD.

Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[dthmstr254]

Not only did Moses and Akhenaton live in different "time spans".......they lived in different "universes."

Akhenaton lived in this universe and Moses lived in someones imagination because the story of Moses is a myth.

Why are you comparing actual people to imaginary people?

however, there are other historical documents proving Moses's existence, otherwise you would not find him mentioned in several secular, atheistic textbooks and encyclopedias. he most certainly existed. akhenaton and Moses come from the same land, although not the same time. Moses was born to a an Israeli woman and hidden in a basket in the Nile to be watched by his sister Miriam. he was soon found by the Pharaoh's daughter, and raised by his own mother until a certain, unspecified age, although historians are pretty sure by documents preserved in the Egyptian museum in Cairo that record his education that he was around the age of 6. he grew up and became a very prominent figure in Egypt until the age of 40 when he murdered an egyptian slave master, which is also documented and placed near the documentation of his education. the part of his life between the ages of 40 and 80 are undocumented, but he shows up again in the history of Egypt when he returns and demands that the Israelites be let out of slavery. the only record of the ten plagues that is unaffected by the Egyptian gods is in the Bible, all the others definitely point to something horrible happening, and they make use of Amenhoteps god Amun, blaming the plagues on him. it is also funny how the god Amun finds its roots in early Judaistic beliefs. the story of Amenhotep's new god stems from his being impressed with Joseph's ability to interpret dreams, and the fact the Joseph gives the credit to his God. and, not wanting to be taken as a traitor to the Egyptian gods, he created a new god that was to be the new head god of the egyptians, calling it Amun. well, we all know how that turned out. he was coined the traitor of the pharaohs and dethroned quickly. his legacy lives on in modern times in movies such as The Mummy.
this is hopefully a concise version of early Judaistic beliefs and the history of Moses from 0-80 years old. i hope you enjoy.

 

[dthmstr254]

THE HOLY TRINITY:

ALL LIFE/SELF ORIGINATES OUT OF --GOD.

LIFE/SELF COMES INTO BEING IN THE WORLD AS --FLESH.

AT DEATH, LIFE/SELF RETURNS TO ITS ORIGIN, WHICH IS--GOD.

Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

yes, we all have heard that several times, but i want to know WHERE you learned this. in other words, what is your personal testimony? (i hope it isnt too personal.)

 

[Lucidthots]

yes, we all have heard that several times, but i want to know WHERE you learned this. in other words, what is your personal testimony? (i hope it isnt too personal.)

I realized this while reading the Vedas.

Looked at the Hindu Trinity.

Compared it to the Holy Trinity of Christianity and added it up.

The three gods of the Hindu Trinity are really just three facets of the ONE; not three distinct beings.

The Hindu Trinity is just a metaphor.

A symbol for the action of the soul, becoming flesh and then returning once again at death, to "light."

It is the same in the Christian Trinity.

 

[dthmstr254]

I realized this while reading the Vedas.

Looked at the Hindu Trinity.

Compared it to the Holy Trinity of Christianity and added it up.

The three gods of the Hindu Trinity are really just three facets of the ONE; not three distinct beings.

The Hindu Trinity is just a metaphor.

A symbol for the action of the soul, becoming flesh and then returning once again at death, to "light."

It is the same in the Christian Trinity.

have i actually found someone who agrees that the Trinity is meaning that the Trinity is really just referring the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and saying that they are parts or facets of God? i have to say you are a Godsend!!!

 

[Lucidthots]

have i actually found someone who agrees that the Trinity is meaning that the Trinity is really just referring the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and saying that they are parts or facets of God? i have to say you are a Godsend!!!

THAT IS AWESOME!

 

[dthmstr254]

THAT IS AWESOME!

hows about an invite. i personally invite you to the church i am currently attending while at college: Highland Park Baptist Church. if you ever find yourself in the Chattanooga TN area during your travels, i would definitely enjoy the chance to meet you. even if our views are different, i can tell that there is at least some common ground from which we can get to know eachother, IE the Trinity concept, and i know someone who would definitely enjoy explaining fully the Christian beliefs, and, believe it or not, he does it in such a way that you will most likely enjoy it, if you have even the slightest sense of humor. (sorry for the run-on sentence, i couldnt help but get a little excited at this, the first breakthrough that i have seen on this site.) anyways, if you do find yourself here in Chattanooga, we are on Televison and you can find us on Union near Bailey Avenue. here is a link to the contact page if you want to contact anyone there: http://www.hpbc.net/contact.htm if you need anything, they can help you. I might not be a scholar in the Christian beliefs and do not pretend to be, in fact i learn something about my God every day, and i can thank the people from my church. if you want to contact me, I can PM you my phone number and/or email address.

 

[UtahBill]

hows about an invite. i personally invite you to the church i am currently attending while at college: Highland Park Baptist Church. if you ever find yourself in the Chattanooga TN area during your travels, i would definitely enjoy the chance to meet you. even if our views are different, i can tell that there is at least some common ground from which we can get to know eachother, IE the Trinity concept, and i know someone who would definitely enjoy explaining fully the Christian beliefs, and, believe it or not, he does it in such a way that you will most likely enjoy it, if you have even the slightest sense of humor. (sorry for the run-on sentence, i couldnt help but get a little excited at this, the first breakthrough that i have seen on this site.) anyways, if you do find yourself here in Chattanooga, we are on Televison and you can find us on Union near Bailey Avenue. here is a link to the contact page if you want to contact anyone there: http://www.hpbc.net/contact.htm if you need anything, they can help you. I might not be a scholar in the Christian beliefs and do not pretend to be, in fact i learn something about my God every day, and i can thank the people from my church. if you want to contact me, I can PM you my phone number and/or email address.

and they lived happily ever after, in fantasy land:2wave:

 

[Lucidthots]

hows about an invite. i personally invite you to the church i am currently attending while at college: Highland Park Baptist Church. if you ever find yourself in the Chattanooga TN area during your travels, i would definitely enjoy the chance to meet you. even if our views are different, i can tell that there is at least some common ground from which we can get to know eachother, IE the Trinity concept, and i know someone who would definitely enjoy explaining fully the Christian beliefs, and, believe it or not, he does it in such a way that you will most likely enjoy it, if you have even the slightest sense of humor. (sorry for the run-on sentence, i couldnt help but get a little excited at this, the first breakthrough that i have seen on this site.) anyways, if you do find yourself here in Chattanooga, we are on Televison and you can find us on Union near Bailey Avenue. here is a link to the contact page if you want to contact anyone there: http://www.hpbc.net/contact.htm if you need anything, they can help you. I might not be a scholar in the Christian beliefs and do not pretend to be, in fact i learn something about my God every day, and i can thank the people from my church. if you want to contact me, I can PM you my phone number and/or email address.

I would love to!

And I would be respectful to your church, and keep my "unorthodox" views to myself.

Send your info!

 

[ddoyle00]

I didn't read all 43 pages, so maybe I missed my answer somewhere. Lets assume that there were 3 physical and seprate entities-god, holy spirit and jesus. They can exist at different times, but at one time they did all exist. Now, traditional christian teachings tell us that god sent a part of his essense into mary for a virgin birth. Thus, we get Jesus. Jesus claims he is not god, but gods son. OK, fine. Jesus dies and returns to heaven to die for mans sins.
Now, how can a part of gods essense die? Since jesus was not truely human, but something a bit more divine, doesnt it seem a bit planned out by god to have a "human" die for the sins of man when he cant really die in the first place and he wasnt even a human? On top of that, god is all-knowing so doesnt it make sense he knew exactly what would happen to his "son"? Actually, since god is all-knowing, does he know what hes gonna do in the future and does it drive him nuts knowing hes helpless to do anything about it?