Sure there will be more evidence coming out. But what we know of it is the following:All I said is that their will be more evidence coming out, and there will.
It is not an Official analysis - not evidence - therefore meaningless.An analysis of a 911 call done over the weekend by the Orlando Sentinel determined that screams for help overhead on a 911 came from Martin, although Zimmerman's family insist they recognize his voice in the screams.
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Two evidence experts consulted by the Sentinel found the voice heard in a 911 call placed by a woman in a home near where the shooting occurred was only a 48 percent match to Zimmerman's voice. One of the experts, Tom Owen, told the Sentinel to reach a positive match he would expect higher than 90 percent.
"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen told the paper.
Owen,the chair emeritus at the American Board of Record Evidence, was not able to determine if the voice was that of Martin, the Sentinel reports, because he did not have audio of the teen's voice to compare to the shouts for help in the 911 call.
Page 2: Trayvon Martin Case: Doctor Sees Little Evidence George Zimmerman Had Broken Nose - ABC News
If Martin went back to murder Z, why would he be crying out for help? If Martin is the one crying out for help, and it's definitely not Z, then I'd believe that he also thought his life was in danger and was needed assistance.
I am not ok with this guy shooting Martin, and some posters seeming to shrug it off like it's just self defense and justifiable. A reasonable person in Z's situation would have regrets for their actions and would be bothered by the result. It was another human being after all.
In all fairness, you don't have to ACTUALLY be being killed, you just have to have a "reasonable" fear that you might be.
I'm reasonable, and I would probably challenge the guy too.
And there's NO WAY I would let the big skinhead guy whos been following me about reach in his pocket when I ask him why he's following me.
Wouldn't be prudent.
Wasn't the decision to convene a grand jury made AFTER the uproar started.
Not arguing, just making sure I have my facts straight.
I thought the case was "closed" before the media blitz.
I agree and I think that may end of being the crucial point, one we may likely never know. Did Zimmerman shove Martin first? That changes things. Did Zimmerman reach for his cell or his gun? We probably won't know that answer either. IF after being targeted for whatever reason by a stranger in a unfamiliar neighborhood and being confronted Martin believed Zimmerman to be reaching for his weapon then Martin feeling threatened was perhaps justified in clocking Zimmerman.
If I am not mistaken Zimmerman said Martin hit him and knocked him to the ground. That would be easy enough to determine as there would be bruising and evidence on Martin's hands. If he broke Zimmerman's nose there should be blood on Martin's hands. If he repeatedly bashed Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk there will be evidence proving it.
I understand the reasonable fear part. It has been a subject taught in a few weapons classes I have taken. "Reasonable" threat of serious bodily injury is a question here. I believe that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to have to wrestle with that proof based on the forensic evidence. We know that Zimmerman's injuries were so slight that a cop told the ambulance service that the second ambulance was not necessary as Zimmerman didn't require it. We know that Zimmerman did not get medical assistance until the next day and his attorney said that no stitches were required. It may be a bit difficult to argue that Zimmerman faced the threat of serious bodily injury. That may be even more difficult to argue if Martin is relatively unmarked.
"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self defense. We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have,"
Fatal shooting of Florida teen turned over to state attorney - CNN.com
You have made too many assumptions. At least one map presented showed possible paths taken to the point of altercation, such that Z had progressed down the corridor more, then headed back. Another equally plausable route would be that Z went through those rows, as in across them, and never went "down". I have seen maps with that route as well. All such routes are plausable if Z had wanted to either maintian visual contact, having possibly lost it, or know just best where M went before he returned to his vehicle, as he was expecting the cops, and wanted to tell them as best he could.
Here is one real safe assumption. M could have walked to his Dad's gf's place and back twice from when he first realized he was being followed. He chose not to.
I believe the "they startled each other" theory is a merely a way to justify that Martin may have just attack Zimmerman because he was pissed he was following him. Martin was a young, fit guy. He probably thought he could take him no problem.My personal theory is that they startled each other.
So the eye witness accounts are conflicting, and not all of them support Z's side of the story. Some of the eye witness accounts, actually, do a good job of incriminating Z. As people have said repeatedly, this isn't cut and dry.
Read below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket — Zimmerman — on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him — Trayvon.
“The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me ‘Help, help,’ and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” he said.
But last week another unidentified man told CNN that he saw a larger man on top and a boy underneath. There wasn’t much movement, he said.
Zimmerman’s father told the Orlando TV station that as his son was being beaten he tried to move from the concrete onto the grass. In doing so, he said, the gun his son kept in a holster on his waist was exposed.
“Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of ‘You’re going to die now’ or ‘You’re gonna die tonight’ — something to that effect,” Robert Zimmerman said. “He continued to beat George. At some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did.”
Seven calls came in to 911.
“They’re wrestling right in the back of my porch,” one caller said. “A guy is yelling, ‘Help.’…. I’m pretty sure the guy is dead.”
“I saw a man lying on the ground and he needed help, screaming,” one 13-year-old boy told 911. “I heard a loud sound, and the screaming stopped.”
Selma Mora Lamilla heard no fighting, only what she says was the wail of a child and the distinct crack of gunfire that silenced it. She ran outside her back porch, where she said she saw Zimmerman standing above Trayvon, apparently holding him down.
“I asked him, “What’s happening here? What’s going on?” Mora said. “The third time, I was indignant, and he said, ‘Just call the police.’ Then I saw him with his hands over his head in the universal sign of: ‘Oh man, I messed up.’ ”
Read more here: What is known, what isn’t about Trayvon Martin’s death - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
Seems you do not call yourself "What if" for nothing :roll:
I guess it went right over your head.That's correct as far as we (the public) know and there is no way in hell anyone connected with the investigation is going to tell us anything more about that night than what we already know until the investigation is complete.
We have no need to speculate on, or about, their actions.If I were Z's daddy I'd be doing everything I could to protect my son and keep him out of prison. If I were M's daddy I'd be doing everything I could to have all the unanswered questions answered and justice served whatever that may be. I am sorry for all involved.
Yes you are right. It isn't bad, it is horrible.Not bad,
Not bad, What if, and something I had not considered.
His father said his son claims Martin was poking around the back of townhouses rather than just walking along the sidewalk and that is why he called 911 as a suspicious person in a high burglary neighborhood.
His father probably made up the whole story so I guess he is the one to ask about it. It keeps getting better and better. I can't wait for the next installment.
Anybody who doesn't go to a hospital for documentaion of his alibi after killing an unarmed man is either stupid or knows the "fix" is in and left the station that night without a care in the world.
He doesn't look that stupid.
I guess it went right over your head.
"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self defense. We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have,"
Fatal shooting of Florida teen turned over to state attorney - CNN.com
That was information we had at the end of the last investigation and prior to the new investigation.
Unless new information has come forth showing that Zimmerman didn't act in self-defense. That is where we are at.
The only thing I can think of the might possibly be new, would be the girl friends statement which is consistent with Zimmerman's version.
But if it is new, her words are suspect for coming out after the original investigation was finished.
We have no need to speculate on, or about, their actions.
They did??On the other hand, they had his phone. Right there
They did??
Nope.I would certainly hope so, if they investigated the scene.
Unless we're going to speculate that it disappeared from the scene somehow or, more sinister, someone else, SOMEWHERE else called Ms girlfriend from HIS phone just minutes before the shooting and its all an elaborate plot of some kind.
It was a situation entirely of Zimmerman's own making - if he had stayed in his car as directed by the police dispatcher, instead of tracking Martin, there never would have been a confrontaion and an innocent teenager would have been allowed to finish his walk to his father's home!<sigh>. It does not matter. They had a legal confrontation in the beginning. Maybe not a smart one, but they had words, which is legal. The merit will hinge on who is believed or proven to have assaulted who, and then what was Zimmerman's situation when he chose to use deadly force.
No it is not.It was a situation entirely of Zimmerman's own making - if he had stayed in his car as directed by the police dispatcher, instead of tracking Martin, there never would have been a confrontaion and an innocent teenager would have been allowed to finish his walk to his father's home!
Still.can't figure out what the hell is up withthe whole girlfriend thing.
It was a situation entirely of Zimmerman's own making - if he had stayed in his car as directed by the police dispatcher, instead of tracking Martin, there never would have been a confrontaion and an innocent teenager would have been allowed to finish his walk to his father's home!
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