Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

[Aristaeus]

People are more than vaginas and penises, but you seem to not understand this because now you have gone for gar that only women who menstruate are truly female.

What the hell? I never said only women who menstruate are female. Stop lying and stop putting silly words in my mouth.

Trans women would love to have functional female sex organs but as of now that isn't possible

And the reason they don't have female sex organs is because they're male and thus have male sexual organs.

You know what, fine. If you think what determines if you're male or female is a feeling and that having female sexual organs, female gonads, female gametes, and a female skeletal structure has no bearing on whether you're female, then good luck to you.

The irony is that you said that a transwoman who said she was biologically male was confused and not a real transperson, so congratulations on that bit of transphobia.

 

[CLAX1911]

People will never consider transwomen to be women. Because they aren't. If they were the term "transwoman" wouldn't exist.

That being said there is no reason to treat them poorly and the above is no reason to.

 

[Aristaeus]

People will never consider transwomen to be women. Because they aren't. If they were the term "transwoman" wouldn't exist.

That being said there is no reason to treat them poorly and the above is no reason to.

Exactly.

 

[bomberfox]

I posted a direct link to their actual twitter account where they repeatedly call women menstruators.

You posted a link to a rando claiming other orgs are saying this.

 

[Aristaeus]

You posted a link to a rando claiming other orgs are saying this.

Christ. If a retweet isn't acceptable to you, here is Femcare Community Health initiative's direct twitter feed showing exactly what the retweet does. They repeatedly use the word menstruators in this and other tweets. Their is no claim, it's right there in their feed.

 

[Lisa]

What the hell? I never said only women who menstruate are female. Stop lying and stop putting silly words in my mouth.





And the reason they don't have female sex organs is because they're male and thus have male sexual organs.

You know what, fine. If you think what determines if you're male or female is a feeling and that having female sexual organs, female gonads, female gametes, and a female skeletal structure has no bearing on whether you're female, then good luck to you.

The irony is that you said that a transwoman who said she was biologically male was confused and not a real trans person, so congratulations on that bit of transphobia.

Your attempt to paint me as a transphobe is laughable.
I said that I questioned whether she was trans because she agreed with the TERFs and the transphobes. She either has very low self-confidence, she is misinformed on the subject or she might be misdiagnosed because transwoman would never claim that she is male.

This thread is proof that you are the misinformed transphobe.

 

[CLAX1911]

Exactly.

People can call folks that see it this way all sorts of things it won't matter.

They are trying to say that not accepting trans women as women is transphobic. It isn't. Don't let them convince you that you are either.

 

[Lisa]

People can call folks that see it this way all sorts of things it won't matter.

They are trying to say that not accepting trans women as women is transphobic. It isn't. Don't let them convince you that you are either.

What do you call a woman who is 46XY. Is she male or female?

Karyotype 46,XY - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[CLAX1911]

What do you call a woman

Woman.

 

[Lisa]

Woman.

But she has XY male chromosomes.

 

[Aristaeus]

Your attempt to paint me as a transphobe is laughable.
I said that I questioned whether she was trans because she agreed with the TERFs and the transphobes. She either has very low self-confidence, she is misinformed on the subject or she might be misdiagnosed because transwoman would never claim that she is male.

This thread is proof that you are the misinformed transphobe.

Yep, you invalidated her identity as a transwomen because her personal experience of being trans didn't fit with your opinion of how it should be experienced.

 

[Aristaeus]

People can call folks that see it this way all sorts of things it won't matter.

They are trying to say that not accepting trans women as women is transphobic. It isn't. Don't let them convince you that you are either.

It must be a tough time for farmers at the moment, no longer knowing if their breeding animals are male or female. Considering sexual organs are no longer useful for determining sex, farmers have gotten lucky so far with a 100% successful guess rate.

 

[Lisa]

Yep, you invalidated her identity as a transwomen because her personal experience of being trans didn't fit with your opinion of how it should be experienced.

No, I didn't invalidate anything. No trans women would ever say that she is a man. That statement is what I have an issue with. Trans women are women and would never state that she is a man. Crossdressers are men. Trans women are women because being trans isn't about dressing up.

 

[Aristaeus]

No, I didn't invalidate anything. No trans women would ever say that she is a man. That statement is what I have an issue with. Trans women are women and would never state that she is a man. Crossdressers are men. Trans women are women because being trans isn't about dressing up.

Well clearly you're wrong as I gave you an example. There are others. The problem is you're saying she is wrong about her identity because it doesn't match what you think a transwoman should think. It's easy to say no transwoman would ever say they're a man if you dismiss the ones who do as not real transwomen (invalidation).

Kind of funny that you refusing to accept her a real transwoman is more transphobic than anything I've said.

Debbie Hayton: I'm a transwoman and my identity is valid.
Lisa: No you're not.

 

[CLAX1911]

But she has XY male chromosomes.

You said she was a woman is she not?

 

[Lisa]

You said she was a woman is she not?

A trans woman is also a woman despite the fact that they also have XY genes. You're stuck on the idea that the existence of a penis makes a man. Trans women are paying doctors $30,000 to remove it because it causes gender dysphoria. That would no occur if she was ever a man.

 

[Aristaeus]

A trans woman is also a woman despite the fact that they also have XY genes. You're stuck on the idea that the existence of a penis makes a man. Trans women are paying doctors $30,000 to remove it because it causes gender dysphoria. That would no occur if she was ever a man.

The existence of a penis makes a male, excluding certain intersex people, but intersex is not transgender (by the way, intersex people really don't like TRAs dragging them into the debate).

Not all transpeople have dysphoria and not all transpeople have surgery.

 

[CLAX1911]

A trans woman is also a woman despite the fact that they also have XY genes.

then why did you differentiate them by calling them trans women?

You're stuck on the idea that the existence of a penis makes a man.

having a penis makes someone male. They could be a boy or a man or even a trans woman. But they are still male that will never change.

Trans women are paying doctors $30,000 to remove it because it causes gender dysphoria. That would no occur if she was ever a man.

you wouldn't need to differentiate a trans woman from a woman if they were women they are not and you are supporting that by calling them some other term.

 

[Lisa]

The existence of a penis makes a male, excluding certain intersex people, but intersex is not transgender (by the way, intersex people really don't like TRAs dragging them into the debate).

Not all transpeople have dysphoria and not all transpeople have surgery.

View attachment 67301970

I would have doubts that she is transgender. Trans people, or even those who are non-binary tend to look more andrygynous. She has made no effect to even change her appearance or even non-binary grooming.

 

[Lisa]

So you are admitting to being transphobic because she doesn't look enough like a woman to you? Why do you want to cause her psychological problems?

I have known a lot of trans women and even 3 trans guys, and have 2 as long term friends. I'll ask them what they think of her. Are they also transphobic?

If an AMAB trans woman claims to be trans then they make an effort to change their appearance even minimally. She has not, so that leads me to questions her claim unless there is an underlying medical issue, which doesn't seem to be the case. Trans people like everyone else use fashion chooses and grooming to reflect their identity and to project their idea of themselves to others. She has made no apparent effort to even appear metrosexual male, much less non-binary.

She would appear to rate very low on this Ultrect scale,

 

[CLAX1911]

I have known a lot of trans women and even 3 trans guys, and have 2 as long term friends. I'll ask them what they think of her. Are they also transphobic?

if they're picking and choosing who's transition they're going to recognize they absolutely are trans people can be transphobic.

If an AMAB trans woman claims to be trans then they make an effort to change their appearance even minimally. She has not, so that leads me to questions her claim unless there is an underlying medical issue, which doesn't seem to be the case.

so unless a trans person performs for you, you get to deny their existence how incredibly transphobic of you.

Trans people like everyone else use fashion chooses and grooming to reflect their identity and to project their idea of themselves to others.

Says who? Who made you the trans police?

She has made no apparent effort to even appear metrosexual male, much less non-binary.

so because she didn't make steps that you think she should you revoked her trans head you are worse than anyone else here.

you are Denying somebody else has lived experiences because you don't like the way they look. You are probably the forum's most transphobic poster. You make Mike pence look like a hippie.

 

[Lisa]

if they're picking and choosing who's transition they're going to recognize they absolutely are trans people can be transphobic.
so unless a trans person performs for you, you get to deny their existence how incredibly transphobic of you.
Says who? Who made you the trans police? so because she didn't make steps that you think she should you revoked her trans head you are worse than anyone else here.

you are Denying somebody else has lived experiences because you don't like the way they look. You are probably the forum's most transphobic poster. You make Mike pence look like a hippie.

She has no transition process or even grooming/fashion changes, which are one of the first indications that someone is trans. Many trans people, even if they aren't going to transition take hormone blockers or low dose HRT, but I don't see any evidence of that on her. Claiming to be trans but showing no changes from stereotypical male grooming makes me ask questions. I'll call her any name that she wants and happily use her preferred pronouns but I have my dights that she is actually trans unless there is something that is holding her back such as children, job, religion, or marriage.
I had a trans friend a few decades ago who was a member of a very conservative evangelical church and was actually quite homophobic, but even she looked somewhat androgynous in daily life. I saw her en femme and she looked like a body double of Grace Slick. I tried to help her but she disappeared and seems to have gone back in her religious closet.

 

[CLAX1911]

She has no transition process or even grooming/fashion changes, which are one of the first indications that someone is trans.

so women have to groom themselves a certain way to be considered women by you so not only are you transphobic but you are also misogynistic?

Many trans people, even if they aren't going to transition take hormone blockers or low dose HRT, but I don't see any evidence of that on her.

so a trans person has to cross certain thresholds to earn her trans status with you? next thing you're going to tell me we should be converting gay people Fred Phelps.

Claiming to be trans but showing no changes from stereotypical male grooming makes me ask questions.

like many people who are transphobic. How is the sermon at the westboro Baptist Church?

I'll call her any name that she wants and happily use her preferred pronouns but I have my dights that she is actually trans unless there is something that is holding her back such as children, job, religion, or marriage.

because you think someone should groom themselves a certain way therefore there's something holding them back.

I'm sorry to break it to you Lisa that's transphobia.
I had a trans friend a few decades ago who was a member of a very conservative evangelical church and was actually quite homophobic, but even she looked somewhat androgynous in daily life. I saw her en femme and she looked like a body double of Grace Slick. I tried to help her but she disappeared and seems to have gone back in her religious closet.

I feel sorry for your friend that she had to perform for you to accept her gender identity. I suspect your gay male friends have to talk with a lisp and care deeply about fashion for you to consider them gay.

And maybe you should leave your church and become a little more open-minded instead of demanding people perform a certain way for you in order for you to accept them.

 

[maquiscat]

No, I didn't invalidate anything. No trans women would ever say that she is a man. That statement is what I have an issue with. Trans women are women and would never state that she is a man. Crossdressers are men. Trans women are women because being trans isn't about dressing up.

The person in question didn't make this claim. She made the claim that she is male. She is making a distinction between the sex and the gender. The very thing that is the whole basis of being transgender, the sex not matching the gender, is her claim, but because she says it that way, it seems to get people in a tizzy.

 

[maquiscat]

then why did you differentiate them by calling them trans women?

If no one were having issues with such people, once they realize their sex/gender mismatch, then they would be called by their gender and no debate would be occurring. But because there are those who wish to deny transgenders exist as anything other than a choice, the distinction between trans and cis has to be noted for clear conversation.