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Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

You're referring to the body, which again, doesn't relate automatically to the self. Even with a full SRS, no one is denying that the body is originally male or female (intersex conditions aside). The current language is drifting towards sex being the body and gender being the self. Transgenders are not changing their genders, but are recognizing that their gender doesn't conform to their sex, or physical body, in the same manner that the majority has their sex and gender match.
I see that...I really do...and it was hard for me to see that. I do now...in terms of understanding what you mean, if I agree or not..but at the same time I don't see how we invalidate reality...
 
Hormone blockers are only given for a few months to 2 years with estrogen, and then they have gender surgery.
That is simple not true...But we are at the cusp of facism...Let us ar least in this Forum fight against it..
 
I am Not talking about trump or biden....But that in in America we see the other side as inhernently evil ....this is is gonna end in a disaster
 
As a european i should know...this Extreme Division is spelling very Bad outcomes....Empathy for all of our fellow humans
 
That is simple not true...But we are at the cusp of facism...Let us ar least in this Forum fight against it..
Who told you that they are taken for longer? They are only given for a short time to suppress the natal hormones and they stop at surgery because they are not needed.
 
I have lost several relatives in war...this infighting should not contiue this way...I recognise this is a Contentious issue...I agree...BUT if we keep this hatred up... it seems quite Dark ... yes Contentious debate is wonderful..
Just Not such hatred
 
Who told you that they are taken for longer? They are only given for a short time to suppress the natal hormones and they stop at surgery because they are not needed.
Honestly i know from med Experts and commom sense that if you mess with a young Persons Hormons it is obviously hard to reverse it later on obviously...
 
I have lost several relatives in war...this infighting should not contiue this way...I recognise this is a Contentious issue...I agree...BUT if we keep this hatred up... it seems quite Dark ... yes Contentious debate is wonderful..
Just Not such hatred
But again none of that really matters...We live in a Time where adherence to ideology matters more...This harted has to end
 
But again none of that really matters...We live in a Time where adherence to ideology matters more...This harted has to end
I know it Sounds like the dumbest clishe....Bur I really think that this hatred has to end...before ANYTHING else
 
I know it Sounds like the dumbest clishe....Bur I really think that this hatred has to end...before ANYTHING else
And by anything else i mean any other topic
 
I think the problem is that too many people are trying to blend too many factors into a single label. My sexual orientation is separate from my sexual/gender identity, as well as separate from my BDSM role, among a number of other factors. While we can look at trends, and see certain combinations come up often, such as being cis-gendered, heterosexual, right handed, we must never assume that variants are detrimental to the overall species.
Thank you for a concise summary which is close to my point(s). A 5 or 6 letter acronym for the labels those without positive experience (or no relevant experience at all) is stepwise, but in the real world of the actual participants in these 'communities' it is more like a probability distribution, with each letter concentrated around each peak. Some experience the spectrum of experiences (oops, almost wrote mental and physical again) as dynamic - like riding a rollercoaster - and some not, one labeled activity merging with others, or barely approaching them at all.

I have always lived my life with the outlook that life is to be fully experienced and with an open mind, and not just take actions limited to and directed by general opinion. If it looks like it won't kill or damage me permanently, It's worth a try or 3. I know what its like to jump out of an airplane, dive to the bottom of the sea, and most every adventure in between. I know where most every non-injected drug will take you, and just how vast and varied the sexual world can be. So when people try to analyze, vilify, and compartmentalize sex (and gender) preferences, I realize they are simply too regimented to try things, or open mindedly study things before judging them.

We are complicated beings and have no idea how the brain actually works - it is the most complex and disorganized organized system in the universe. And sex and gender are complex subsystems that are influenced by our entire existence, and vary in more ways than they are the same - binary is a mathematical system, not biologic. We have taken most every other aspect of our lives and raised the complexity to the highest levels we are capable of; just watch the fantasy worlds created within movies or video games! We conquer mountains and sail the oceans for fun and excitement with the world watching with encouragement, but are afraid to expand and experience the psychosexual adventures that may or may not blur gender, with neither (actual) crime nor fowl if all parties consent. Like a lot of other things, it fun and fulfilling, whatever you choose to do (or not do) by yourself or with company!
 
A trans female is not a male and never was a male

Good grief, I hope you aren't a doctor. Many medicines require different doses for males and females due to physiologic differences. The difference can mean life or death.


Physiologic differences between men and women affect drug activity, including pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. Pharmacokinetics in women is affected by lower body weight, slower gastrointestinal motility, less intestinal enzymatic activity, and slower glomerular filtration rate. Because of delayed gastric emptying, women may need to extend the interval between eating and taking medications that must be absorbed on an empty stomach. Other physiologic differences may affect medication dosages. For example, because renal clearance is slower in women, some renally-excreted medications, such as digoxin, may require a dosage adjustment. Pharmacodynamic differences in women include greater sensitivity to and enhanced effectiveness of beta blockers, opioids, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, and typical antipsychotics.

(please note the correct use of men and women when referring to male and female).
 
It is only one of many determinative attributes. Our gender is more complicated than you or your argument wants to admit.

Transmen are born female, so are they women or men?

According to you, this is a woman,
images


You are also claiming that this is a guy.

View attachment 67299505
Yes that's a woman and that's a guy. it doesn't matter that they change their physical appearance. That does not change their sex.
 
You're referring to the body, which again, doesn't relate automatically to the self. Even with a full SRS, no one is denying that the body is originally male or female (intersex conditions aside). The current language is drifting towards sex being the body and gender being the self. Transgenders are not changing their genders, but are recognizing that their gender doesn't conform to their sex, or physical body, in the same manner that the majority has their sex and gender match.

See, I would describe gender as closer to the idea of feminine/masculine mixed with (wo)manmade gender expectations and stereotypes. A woman is just the word given to a female human in the same sense that a ewe is a female sheep and a mare is a female horse. And like wise for man and bull for a male cow, etc.
 
The science simply doesnt back up your preschool understanding of gender and sex
? No male can become a female and no female can become a male. That is scientific.
 
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Yes that's a woman and that's a guy.
True.
it doesn't matter that they change their physical appearance.
It causes quite a bit of confusion — hence it shouldn't be done.
That does not change their sex
True.
Our outwards physical bodies are only part of the equation and are not determinative on their own.
True, but the definition of sex as per Merriam & Webster is "the sum of the structural, functional, and sometimes behavioral characteristics of organisms that distinguish males and females" and the "sum" with most transganders is that they are of the sex they were born as.
It's a real issue.
From a practical point, back in the 50s and 60s, black women using white women's toilets and changing rooms made many white women uncomfortable.
Irrelevant. They were/are of the same sex.
 
That is putting words into my mouth. Nothing I have wrote has actually touched upon GD. In fact GD is not limited to transgenders. That said, trans people like Rose of Dawn, are more than likely working off the older definitions of the words, and by that standard, I can agree that she is not a woman. But that standard is quickly fading. Transgender people do not have a choice in being who and what they are. It doesn't mean that they will get GD, but it doesn't change the fact that they are transgendered. They may not even feel a need to do any kind of transitioning. What they do is a choice. Being transgendered is not a choice. But with that also comes discovery and self truth. As noted GD does not only stem from transgenderism, so if GD is present, the individual needs to ensure what the source is. Furthermore, if they are indeed transgendered, they have to determine what their gender actually is. Maybe they are more gender fluid, not really a man or a woman, but some blend of each. That also could be part of Rose's assertion that she is not a woman.

If a transgender person doesn't have GD, then what is the reason for identifying as trans if not a deliberate choice?


Heavyweight for men is 200#+ while for women it's 175#+. Basically what you are claiming is that there is no women who can match men for the weight class. For my example, I am first going to acknowledge the skill of boxing. A skilled welterweight boxer of 10 years experience, can easily whoop a heavyweight qualified non boxer anyday. So for this example, since we are talking about men vs women in boxing, we have to make an assumption of equal skill, or as equal as it ever gets in a ring. I would say that Nataliya Kuznetsova, assuming equal skill in boxing, would be more than a match for Anthony Joshua. I am not making any claims that there would be a large number of women who could reach to that standard, but if Nataliya wanted to box against men, I have no doubt that she could hold her own, skill level accounted for.

Good grief. Do you also think if Usain Bolt identified as a woman that female sprinters would be able to compete with him(her)?

Are you really unaware that males have more muscle mass, denser bones, and are stronger than women??
 
Meaningfulness is subjective. And given that we are developing language to accommodate more than one gender, the closer reality is that the meaning of the terms "man" and "woman" are no longer so broad.

Part of the problem arises from our predecessors insisting that X, Y, and Z characteristics can only be male or female or man or woman. For example, right now high heels is only a woman's fashion, despite the fact that when first invented, they were a men's only fashion. Furthermore, there is the insistence that certain physical looks must belong to one or the other. There are plenty of males, who identify as men, who look what we currently call feminine. And the same for female women looking "masculine". These assignments are completely arbitrary and artificial.

But let me ask you this question. Outside of the sex bit that you enjoy having when screwing or other similar activities, what significance is it which word applies to whom? How important is it actually that either "man" or "woman" is applied to a given individual? Outside of medical, how important is "male" or "female" as a label to a given individual?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this blog by a transwoman. It's a very interesting and thought-provoking article.

 
? No male can become a female and no female can become a male. That is scientific.
Nope. Women can become men and men can become women. There are many who have completed the transition. You need to provide scientific studies.
 
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