Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

[maquiscat]

She has made no effect to even change her appearance or even non-binary grooming.

Why should this be required?

 

[Lisa]

The person in question didn't make this claim. She made the claim that she is male. She is making a distinction between the sex and the gender. The very thing that is the whole basis of being transgender, the sex not matching the gender, is her claim, but because she says it that way, it seems to get people in a tizzy.

It is very rare for openly trans people to phrase it that way. It is usually said that they were born male but not they are male. This is a small but very important difference in that phrasing.

 

[maquiscat]

I find it highly suspicious that MtF is rated differently than FtM. There seems to be a bias in favor of MtF's

 

[maquiscat]

It is very rare for openly trans people to phrase it that way. It is usually said that they were born male but not they are male. This is a small but very important difference in that phrasing.

Even that phrasing makes a distinction between sex and gender, but they are using male for both. Not all are like that. There are those within the transgender community who will use male/female for sex and man/woman for gender. Noting that they are male and a woman makes the same distinction between sex and gender.

 

[CLAX1911]

If no one were having issues with such people, once they realize their sex/gender mismatch, then they would be called by their gender and no debate would be occurring.

I don't buy that. You don't differentiate people because of other people's hang ups.

The issue people have will never go away. It's only an issue for you. They don't separate gender from sex. You do. They see that as your issue.

But because there are those who wish to deny transgenders exist as anything other than a choice, the distinction between trans and cis has to be noted for clear conversation.

so someone has to agree with your opinion in order to have a conversation with you that's why you can't participate in this conversation. That's why you put your issues on others.

What you need to do to facilitate conversation is understand your opinion is just that.

 

[Lisa]

Why should this be required?

Because men and women are outwardly different. This is the reason for transitioning or at least some change in appearance. She must not experience any form of gender dysphoria, and as such leads me to believe that she is more non-binary than transgendered.

 

[ProgressPlease]

Because men and women are outwardly different. This is the reason for transitioning or at least some change in appearance. She must not experience any form of gender dysphoria, and as such leads me to believe that she is more non-binary than transgendered.

The outward differences between males and females is their physiology not their hair length or clothing style or makeup. Males and females have different fat stores, Adam's apples, voice pitch, different hair patterns, hip width, breast tissue, different skeletal structure. These affect how males and females look. Internal physiological differences exist like lung capacity, production of blood cells, and heart size - why sport needs to remain sex segregated.

*Gender* relies on stereotypes. At the end of the day, it is biology that does not and thus we should be focused on that and not focused on perpetuating stereotypes of how male bodied and female bodied people should behave or present.
We are all non-binary because there is a spectrum of personalities, clothing preferences, and behaviors. Stereotypes change across time and culture.

 

[Aristaeus]

Because men and women are outwardly different. This is the reason for transitioning or at least some change in appearance. She must not experience any form of gender dysphoria, and as such leads me to believe that she is more non-binary than transgendered.

Of course another possibility is that it's just a bloke who wants access to women's changing rooms, and if it is, having declared themselves as trans there's not much women can do to prevent that. They can't even ask him/her to leave as that would be transphobic.

 

[Aristaeus]

Because men and women are outwardly different. This is the reason for transitioning or at least some change in appearance. She must not experience any form of gender dysphoria, and as such leads me to believe that she is more non-binary than transgendered.

How are men and women outwardly different if man and woman are internalised feelings of genders?

Men and women can only be outwardly different if they are physiologically different, which is my argument.

 

[Peter King]

So I am going to have to call her/this woman a man/he because of radical people?



This to me is a woman. In her passport it says female. So I call her that. To me that is logical and the most accepting way to look at this.

 

[Aristaeus]

Here's a video of a transwoman explaining why transwomen competing against (natal) women is unfair.

 

[maquiscat]

I don't buy that. You don't differentiate people because of other people's hang ups.

The issue people have will never go away. It's only an issue for you. They don't separate gender from sex. You do. They see that as your issue.
so someone has to agree with your opinion in order to have a conversation with you that's why you can't participate in this conversation. That's why you put your issues on others.

What you need to do to facilitate conversation is understand your opinion is just that.

No you don't have to agree with anything. However, if I do not use something to distinguish between those who are born with matched sex and gender, and those that are born with mismatched sex and gender, then how do you know which I am talking about in a discussion of why the later group needs to have their rights recognized and not be harassed for being what they are? We could even be using the labels "matched" and "mismatched", and the principle would still be the same.

 

[maquiscat]

Because men and women are outwardly different. This is the reason for transitioning or at least some change in appearance. She must not experience any form of gender dysphoria, and as such leads me to believe that she is more non-binary than transgendered.

First why is having dysphoria a requirement for being transgender? Secondly, since all expression of gender is a social construct, why should they hold to any given expression especially when there are cis gender people who are not holding to said current construct? For example, there is a cis gender man I have seen recently on Facebook who wears skirts and heels to his work, every day. Should he be claimed to not be cis gendered because he is wearing "women's" clothing?

 

[CLAX1911]

No you don't have to agree with anything. However, if I do not use something to distinguish between those who are born with matched sex and gender, and those that are born with mismatched sex and gender, then how do you know which I am talking about in a discussion of why the later group needs to have their rights recognized and not be harassed for being what they are?

I don't think you understand the argument someone was telling me that trans women are women and they're not. That's why you distinguish them as different with terms like trans woman. I agree with you they are distinguishable, that's my argument.

We could even be using the labels "matched" and "mismatched", and the principle would still be the same.

Yes you're distinguishing a difference that exists.

 

[CLAX1911]

So I am going to have to call her/this woman a man/he because of radical people?

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This to me is a woman. In her passport it says female. So I call her that. To me that is logical and the most accepting way to look at this.

Good for you. Why are you telling people this are we supposed to care are we supposed to see you as virtuous?

do you like women if this woman wanted to get busy with you would you have sex with her? If she had a penis bigger than yours would that not bother you? Would you perform oral sex on her if she had a giant hog between her legs?

 

[Peter King]

Good for you. Why are you telling people this are we supposed to care are we supposed to see you as virtuous?

do you like women if this woman wanted to get busy with you would you have sex with her? If she had a penis bigger than yours would that not bother you? Would you perform oral sex on her if she had a giant hog between her legs?

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like that, well then who gives a crap, not me that is.

And if I were to fall in love with her I would not mind to have sex with her. Also, you do know that a transwoman usually is operated on or else it would just be a pre-op transgender.

 

[CLAX1911]

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like that, well then who gives a crap, not me that is.

And if I were to fall in love with her I would not mind to have sex with her.

I asked you if you'd perform fellatio in her. If you would that's pretty gay... No judgment. Why couldn't you fall in love with a man that didn't have breasts?

Also, you do know that a transwoman usually is operated on or else it would just be a pre-op transgender.

No, they usually aren't.

 

[chuckiechan]

Transwomen are not women. Transwomen are men who dress like women and sometimes have surgery to make them look more like women.

Woman = adult human female
Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

Transwomen will always have XY genes and will never produce female gametes, hence they are male and thus men.

But why not just go about as though they are if it makes them happy? Why do many radfems object to the idea? Because what we have is a situation where men (the historically oppressive sex) are telling women (the historically oppressed sex) that the word woman is being redefined to allow men access to that class and appropriate their 'culture'. Imagine white people telling black people that not only can white people can identify as black, but white people who do so are just as black as they are and their black culture now also belongs to white people who identify as black. It is men telling women that they (men) are going to define what a woman is, not women. It is fundamentally sexist.

From a practical point, it raises issues: men using women's toilets and changing rooms will make many women uncomfortable. Most transwomen don't go through full surgery, so women are having to get undressed in front of strange men with penises, who will also be undressed. Transwomen in sport is another area where there is an inherent disadvantage for women, and of course, transwomen being appointed to women advocacy roles and getting scholarships aimed at encouraging women into certain industries.

Women who object to their safe spaces being opened up to men, or object to men dictating to them what it is to be a woman, are silenced, doxxed, and called TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminist). But they're not trans exclusionary, as they have no objection to transmen (females) using women's facilities and culture. What they are are MERFs (male exclusionary radical feminists) which is what they should be - males should be excluded from women's changing rooms, women's sports, and women's career schemes.

Well it’s a funny thing, but i registered for my “health portal” of my medical provider and the choice was “male” or “female”. No wandering choices.

So not everyone has drank the cool aid!

 

[CLAX1911]

Well it’s a funny thing, but i registered for my “health portal” of my medical provider and the choice was “male” or “female”. No wandering choices.

So not everyone has drank the cool aid!

You mean you didn't raise a fuss because there wasn't an option for non-binary?

Lol

 

[Peter King]

I asked you if you'd perform fellatio in her. If you would that's pretty gay... No judgment. Why couldn't you fall in love with a man that didn't have breasts? No, they usually aren't.

You do have an issue with the understanding of transwomen and full transition. The fellatio would be towards a female part, she does not have male plumbing.

 

[CLAX1911]

You do have an issue with the understanding of transwomen and full transition. The fellatio would be towards a female part, she does not have male plumbing.

I asked a simple question.

If she has a dong would you perform oral sex on her?

 

[Irredentist]

Good for you. Why are you telling people this are we supposed to care are we supposed to see you as virtuous?

do you like women if this woman wanted to get busy with you would you have sex with her? If she had a penis bigger than yours would that not bother you? Would you perform oral sex on her if she had a giant hog between her legs?

I'll never understand this obsession with genitalia. Your outward appearance, and how you express yourself, is much more important to how people identify your gender.

I asked a simple question.

If she has a dong would you perform oral sex on her?

Is it still gay to have sex with a transgender girl if you don't suck her ****?

 

[Lisa]

First why is having dysphoria a requirement for being transgender? Secondly, since all expression of gender is a social construct, why should they hold to any given expression especially when there are cis gender people who are not holding to said current construct? For example, there is a cis gender man I have seen recently on Facebook who wears skirts and heels to his work, every day. Should he be claimed to not be cis gendered because he is wearing "women's" clothing?

I saw that same post. he is in no way trans or even a crossdresser because he doesn't try to appear to be female, despite the clothing choices. He has great legs and looks better is skirts than many women.

 

[maquiscat]

Also, you do know that a transwoman usually is operated on or else it would just be a pre-op transgender.

Misconception. Pre op or post op, they are still a transwoman (assuming MtF). Furthermore only about 25% of transgender people get surgical procedures, and of those only about .5% are SRS or genital related.

Media’s 'detransition' narrative is fueling misconceptions, trans advocates say

They say the current narrative makes "transition regret" seem more common than it is and contributes to misconceptions about transgender people in general.

www.nbcnews.com

U.S. gender confirmation surgery up 19% in 2016, doctors say

Gender confirmation surgeries rose 19% in 2016 from the previous year, a survey of plastic surgeons said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[maquiscat]

I'll never understand this obsession with genitalia. Your outward appearance, and how you express yourself, is much more important to how people identify your gender.

However, it can be an important point in personal intimate relationships. For some, the genitals are the end game point. For others, the gender will win out over the genitals. For still others, the person themselves matters more than either, which is why many spouses stay with their transitioning partner. All are valid.

Is it still gay to have sex with a transgender girl if you don't suck her ****?

Which brings the question of is sexual orientation about the sex or the gender? Should there be different labels for each?