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Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

And I'm not a terf. I simply believe that, with the exception of a tiny minority of intersex people, if you have female reproduction organs you're female and if you have male sexual organs you're male.

You may disagree with that, but it's hardly a controversial stance. It doesn't make me a bigot, I shouldn't get death threats for saying it, and I shouldn't be told my mother should have aborted me.

I will always treat trans people with the same respect as anyone else, but I'm not going to deny basic biological facts to please someone's feelings.
 
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Of course they're male. The clue is in the word trans. If they were a female woman they wouldn't be trans.

Do you not believe in the existence of male and female sex organs, m&f gametes, and m&f gonads?

Can you explain how some medicines require different dosages depending on if the recipient is male or female? Should a Dr give a transman the male or female dosage of a medicine?

Males and females differ in their response to drug treatment. These differences can be critical in response to drug treatment.
Trans females are females just like pregnant women are still women. Ive yet to see any scientific study from you, until you show you have the first clue on the subject, we can continue this. TERFs have tried their damnest to stop aid to trans people, its time they were required to do some research before pretending they have any credibility on the subject.
 
Trans females are females just like pregnant women are still women. Ive yet to see any scientific study from you, until you show you have the first clue on the subject, we can continue this. TERFs have tried their damnest to stop aid to trans people, its time they were required to do some research before pretending they have any credibility on the subject.

Should a Dr give a transman the male or female dosage of a medicine?

Is a penis a male or female sex organ?

What is the biological definition of a female mammal?
 
Should a Dr give a transman the male or female dosage of a medicine?

Is a penis a male or female sex organ?

What is the biological definition of a female mammal?
Lie i said, you should do some studying yourself before pretending to be a gatekeeper.

this describes what trans gender is and trans sex is.
The problem with your biological binary is it excludes intersex people who can be empirically verified.
I am not a MD so i am the wrong person to ask about the proper dosage of medication.

A biological male can transition to become a biological female in every way that matters and vice versa.
 
Lie i said, you should do some studying yourself before pretending to be a gatekeeper.

this describes what trans gender is and trans sex is.
The problem with your biological binary is it excludes intersex people who can be empirically verified.
I am not a MD so i am the wrong person to ask about the proper dosage of medication.

A biological male can transition to become a biological female in every way that matters and vice versa.
I would genuinely be interested in hearing your answers to my questions above.
 
Huh? If, as you claim, a transwoman is female and identifies as a woman then their sex and gender match
It's almost as if you are trying to twist someone's argument around and then try to claim that they said something that you willfully know that they didnt. You do not seem to have an accurate grasp of the basic concepts of gender identity or human sexuality. The person would not be transgendered if their biological body and their psychological gender identity were not incongruent. A trans woman is born with a genetic male body but a female psychological gender identity. Medical science can not change the gender of the mind, so instead, they change the body as much as possible to align with their psychological gender identity, first with hormones and then surgery, along with counseling to help them make the transition easier and deal with any problems that they might have.
 
I would genuinely be interested in hearing your answers to my questions above.
I cant answer one of them with as much confidence as i want to because i am not a MD who handles prescriptions. A trans woman that still keeps their genitals is still a woman though as woman involves the social, identity, and presentation of someone.
 
H.R.5 is changing the definition of sex to *include* gender identity. Gender identity is not sex which is an immutable characteristic. There needs to be different language for protecting on the basis of social categories, if that is the intention.

The language:
sex (including sexual orientation and gender identity).” The bill defines ‘gender identity’ as “the gender-related identity, appearance, mannerisms, or other gender-related characteristics of an individual, regardless of the individual’s designated sex at birth”

The bill defines gender identity as appearance, mannerisms, etc, "regardless of sex". Yes, because a feeling of one's gender is not the same as one's sex category.

One can watch house members debate this issue - because it really is an issue.

It's still only adding identity to the list. Right now I can't discriminate against you based upon your physical body (whether you are of the male or female sex), but I can discriminate because you are of one sex, but presenting as the other (your gender). Now I can't. That is all the law does. The sex restriction on discrimination still exists.
 
Lie i said, you should do some studying yourself before pretending to be a gatekeeper.

this describes what trans gender is and trans sex is.
The problem with your biological binary is it excludes intersex people who can be empirically verified.

The problem is that intersexed is not empirically proven, regardless of whether the person claims cis gendered or transgendered, the vast majority of the time.

A biological male can transition to become a biological female in every way that matters and vice versa.

A lot really depends on how things are defined. By the current definitions, a biological male (sex only not gender), can physically become "female" (more technically a "woman" as she is matching her gender), but still remains biologically a male.

It is part of the issue and confusion, the shifting of the language. But a large portion of the problem is that some are trying to claim what a transperson's DNA or other biological features are without actually knowing.
 
It's almost as if you are trying to twist someone's argument around and then try to claim that they said something that you willfully know that they didnt. You do not seem to have an accurate grasp of the basic concepts of gender identity or human sexuality. The person would not be transgendered if their biological body and their psychological gender identity were not incongruent. A trans woman is born with a genetic male body but a female psychological gender identity. Medical science can not change the gender of the mind, so instead, they change the body as much as possible to align with their psychological gender identity, first with hormones and then surgery, along with counseling to help them make the transition easier and deal with any problems that they might have.
Part of his argument is from those trans people who do not conform to the current stereotypical idea of their gender, but continue to present many of the traits belonging to the stereotypical idea of their sex.
 
Part of his argument is from those trans people who do not conform to the current stereotypical idea of their gender, but continue to present many of the traits belonging to the stereotypical idea of their sex.
Do all CIS people conform to their stereotypical gender? Many people are non-binary and not transgendered. How many of them are still in process of their transition? This doesn't happen overnight and it's not covered by many medical insurances so it's often a factor of the ability to pay for what they need.

Is the action because of their choice or because of the inability of their body to change because they began transition after puberty ended, often decades later?
 
It's still only adding identity to the list. Right now I can't discriminate against you based upon your physical body (whether you are of the male or female sex), but I can discriminate because you are of one sex, but presenting as the other (your gender). Now I can't. That is all the law does. The sex restriction on discrimination still exists.

The parenthesis after "sex" means that sex, by default, includes gender identity. This is where the issue lies and why there was much debate and concern. It isn't necessarily the issue of adding gender identity as a protected category. The concern is the push to redefine "sex" to include "gender identity". They are separate.
 
The problem is that intersexed is not empirically proven, regardless of whether the person claims cis gendered or transgendered, the vast majority of the time.



A lot really depends on how things are defined. By the current definitions, a biological male (sex only not gender), can physically become "female" (more technically a "woman" as she is matching her gender), but still remains biologically a male.

It is part of the issue and confusion, the shifting of the language. But a large portion of the problem is that some are trying to claim what a transperson's DNA or other biological features are without actually knowing.
Intersex people have been demonstrated empirically to exist What is so hard about this?
If they physically transition and identify as a woman they are by all means a woman theres no air quotes about it. This isnt hard. I cant be the only one who can back up their assertions with citations...

its real ****ing annoying when people can only cite the dictionary for their arguments.
 
The problem is that intersexed is not empirically proven, regardless of whether the person claims cis gendered or transgendered, the vast majority of the time.



A lot really depends on how things are defined. By the current definitions, a biological male (sex only not gender), can physically become "female" (more technically a "woman" as she is matching her gender), but still remains biologically a male.

It is part of the issue and confusion, the shifting of the language. But a large portion of the problem is that some are trying to claim what a transperson's DNA or other biological features are without actually knowing.
I have a nephew who is intersexxed (XXY) and a friend who is a true hermaphrodite, so they certainly do exist.
 
It's almost as if you are trying to twist someone's argument around and then try to claim that they said something that you willfully know that they didnt. You do not seem to have an accurate grasp of the basic concepts of gender identity or human sexuality. The person would not be transgendered if their biological body and their psychological gender identity were not incongruent. A trans woman is born with a genetic male body but a female psychological gender identity. Medical science can not change the gender of the mind, so instead, they change the body as much as possible to align with their psychological gender identity, first with hormones and then surgery, along with counseling to help them make the transition easier and deal with any problems that they might have.

Female refers to biological attributes. Which is why ova are female gametes and male gametes. Female psychological gender is nonsense. You can feel feminine but you can't feel female.

Female is just the word used to describe any animal that produces ova (the female gamete).
 
Female refers to biological attributes. Which is why ova are female gametes and male gametes. Female psychological gender is nonsense. You can feel feminine but you can't feel female.

Female is just the word used to describe any animal that produces ova (the female gamete).
You are stuck on deciding that someone is female purely on biology, which science has said is wrong since the 1960s. We are much more complicated than our DNA/chromosomes or external genitalia, but you refuse to admit that basic fact of human sexuality. You are a TERF. Your idea negates the fact that trans people exist because if we only use biology or DNA to determines a person's existence then transgendered people do not exist, despite 3000 years of evidence that they do exist.

It is our brain that determines how we act and what our personality is and that is psychological gender identity. You can put a male gender psychological identity into a female body but they aren't female. Its a very unhappy and very uncomfortable guy who knows that the body is wrong. John Money tried to convince patients like they that they were males or females because of the DNA or external genitalia, despite their psychological gender identity and they usually ended up by suicide because they knew it wasn't true, no matter how much reinforcement or hormones injections that were tried. This is why reparative therapy doesn't work. Your ideas are 40-50 years behind medical science and are only considered relevant by religious nuts who still believe that the bible is the literal word of a non-existent sky fairy.

John Money, American psychologist (born July 8, 1921, Morrinsville, N.Z.—died July 7, 2006, Towson, Md.), helped pioneer the study of sexual identity, coining the terms gender role and gender identity and emphasizing the effect of psychosocial factors on sexuality. Money immigrated to the U.S. in 1947 to pursue graduate studies. He received a Ph.D. from Harvard University in 1952 and embarked on an academic career at Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md. Money was the first scientist to propose a connection between biological and environmental factors in determining sexuality, arguing that social expectations interacted with an individual’s genes to affect hormone expression and thus sexuality. He studied gender identity in hermaphrodites as well as individuals born with normal genitalia who felt emotionally conflicted with their “assigned” gender roles

John Money should have died in prison for what he did to David Reimer.
 
You are stuck on deciding that someone is female purely on biology, which science has said is wrong since the 1960s. We are much more complicated than our DNA/chromosomes or external genitalia, but you refuse to admit that basic fact of human sexuality.

Hmm. I guess medical publications are also stuck in the 1960s. You'd better email them to inform them they're also terfs.

"The differences between male and female sexes are anatomical and physiological. “Sex” tends to relate to biological differences.

For instance, male and female genitalia, both internal and external are different. Similarly, the levels and types of hormones present in male and female bodies are different.

Genetic factors define the sex of an individual. Women have 46 chromosomes including two Xs and men have 46 including an X and a Y. The Y chromosome is dominant and carries the signal for the embryo to begin growing testes."

 
Hmm. I guess medical publications are also stuck in the 1960s. You'd better email them to inform them they're also terfs.

"The differences between male and female sexes are anatomical and physiological. “Sex” tends to relate to biological differences.

For instance, male and female genitalia, both internal and external are different. Similarly, the levels and types of hormones present in male and female bodies are different.

Genetic factors define the sex of an individual. Women have 46 chromosomes including two Xs and men have 46 including an X and a Y. The Y chromosome is dominant and carries the signal for the embryo to begin growing testes."

except for psychiatrists and psychologists, but they dont matter to you.


 
except for psychiatrists and psychologists, but they dont matter to you.



This transwoman says she's male. Is she a terf, is she wrong, or is she male?

 
She is not a TERF but it is a bit confused. If she is MtF then why would she identify as male?

Because she believes that a female is someone of the sex class that has female sexual organs, produces female gametes, and can gestate a fetus. As a transwoman she doesn't belong to that sex class.

Heck, it's not even like she's the only trans person saying this.
 
Because she believes that a female is someone of the sex class that has female sexual organs, produces female gametes, and can gestate a fetus. As a transwoman she doesn't belong to that sex class.

Heck, it's not even like she's the only trans person saying this.
I would have serious questions if she is trans if that is what she believes.

Our gender is in our brains and not in our panties.
 
I would have serious questions if she is trans if that is what she believes.

Wow. Denying trans people’s gender identity is a textbook example of transphobia. Welcome to the terf club.
 
Wow. Denying trans people’s gender identity is a textbook example of transphobia. Welcome to the terf club.
She is denying her own female psychological gender identity, which is the problem. If she is trans then she is a female, but according to her argument, she is not. The mind controls the body so our gender is not determined by physical organs, the ability to reproduce, or DNA. The fact that she does not have ovaries or XX chromosomes doesn't mean that she isn't female.
 
Do all CIS people conform to their stereotypical gender? Many people are non-binary and not transgendered. How many of them are still in process of their transition? This doesn't happen overnight and it's not covered by many medical insurances so it's often a factor of the ability to pay for what they need.

Is the action because of their choice or because of the inability of their body to change because they began transition after puberty ended, often decades later?
It's part of the same mentality that makes people think that trans don't exist at all. In the same manner that the majority of people will be cis gendered, the majority of transgender will present with the current stereotypes. So those against the trans community will point to the exceptions as their "proof" that transgenders aren't really what they claim. It's also the same mentality which will cause them to claim that cis women who happen to look very male by their appearance choice are trans or predatory male instead.


And that's not the case I was trying to find, although I think it is referenced in the article.
 
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