Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

[Aristaeus]

Incels lol. Yeah this is not a thing. Reddit is not a useful source for anything. Autogynophilia has been debunked.

Trannymaxxing

Trannymaxxing, also known as transmaxxing, is the act of transitioning to another gender in the hope that it may help you to escape inceldom. There have been a few...

incels.wiki

I've seen enough things on gender critical sites to know that there is very much a misogynistic/incel trans subculture. The vast majority aren't, but a small number are definitely misogynistic/incel/get a kick out of unsettling women.

Photos they've put up of themselves in women's toilets carrying a sword gloating about how they'd just scared off a couple of cis women, photos of themselves in a women's toilets naked with an erection, 'kill cis women' tattoos on their arms, rape threats, death threats. I've seen the photos and read the tweets.

 

[Aristaeus]

No men are going in those changing rooms. Sexual assaults have not increased with the inclusion of trans people.

Transwomen have been convicted of sexual assault in toilets/changing rooms, so by definition sex assaults have increased with the inclusion of trans people, even if only on a statistically insignificant level, but it's not insignificant to the victim. How many assaults, how many incidents of voyeurism, how many instances of women deliberately being made uncomfortable is acceptable? How many is too many?

Transgender woman, 18, sexually assaulted girl, 10, in Morrisons toilet

Katie Dolatowski was spared jail despite a similar attack weeks earlier.

metro.co.uk

 

[maquiscat]

No, but a female belongs in female changing rooms, whilst a male doesn't, and 95% of sexual assaults are carried out by men.

And I notice you aren't apologising for you transphobic comments earlier.

What transphobic comments? Acknowledging that transgenders are not the only deviation from cis genders? That does nothing to deny the existence and rights of transgenders. Any transgender would would deny such would then be genderflexphobic.

100% of assaults are carried out by predators. Regardless of where the division lines fall, ignoring a 5% portion of those predators puts their victims still in danger. As to who goes where, that is an artificial construct. As part of that, there is no such things as a female changing room. They are all women's changing room. If one is a male woman, then that is where she belongs. Keep in mind that your logic of people using the changing room of their birth body would put transitioned FtM individuals into women's changing room, where the cis women, plus the trans women that the cis women can tell are trans women, won't be able to tell they were born female, and will still feel threatened. Even worse, since that fear is usually acted upon before the individual gets undressed, any male looking cis woman will also be considered a threat.

 

[ProgressPlease]

The bathroom issue is simply a deflection from the real problems.

Make all bathrooms neutral and single occupancy and put that part to rest already.

 

[maquiscat]

The Equality Act (H.R.5) :
The Equality Act would replace the word “sex” with the phrase “sex (including sexual orientation and gender identity).” The bill defines ‘gender identity’ as “the gender-related identity, appearance, mannerisms, or other gender-related characteristics of an individual, regardless of the individual’s designated sex at birth”
One of many many articles about this:

What Is The Equality Act And What Will Happen If It Becomes A Law?

In May 2019, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 5, or the “Equality Act”, which amends Title VII, among other laws, to explicitly add discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity as outlawed forms of discrimination.

www.forbes.com

ERA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/01/19/why-era-might-set-womens-rights-back/

All this law does is add to what cannot be discriminated against. It does nothing to eliminate sex as a biological reality nor in the context of reproduction.

The idea that the egg bearer and usually (but not always now) gestator must be labeled a woman and that the sperm bearer must be labeled a man is an artificial construct that worked well in the previous environment of limited understanding, but is becoming, especially when it comes to the artificial expectations associated with those labels. Acknowledging gender as a separate component of an individual from their sex does nothing to eliminate that sex, neither in actuality nor in law.

 

[Aristaeus]

What transphobic comments?

Your comments on the transmax community - "There are predators and others who try to take advantage of pretty much anything in all fields of life... non-related people will try to attach themselves to something for their own advantage but are not actually part of it. These "transmax" people are clueless."

You're attacking their feelings of gender, their motives, their explanation of their feelings, and questioning the genuineness.

 

[ProgressPlease]

All this law does is add to what cannot be discriminated against. It does nothing to eliminate sex as a biological reality nor in the context of reproduction.

HR5 seeks to define sex as "including gender identity". Anyone who feels as though they are a woman or dresses like a woman or has women's "mannerisms" (whatever that means) cannot be discriminated against.
Sex is about reproductive anatomy. Girls and women have been abused and trafficked and discriminated against based on their anatomy not on their feelings, dress, or mannerisms.

 

[Aristaeus]

there is no such things as a female changing room.

 

[bomberfox]

Transwomen have been convicted of sexual assault in toilets/changing rooms, so by definition sex assaults have increased with the inclusion of trans people, even if only on a statistically insignificant level, but it's not insignificant to the victim. How many assaults, how many incidents of voyeurism, how many instances of women deliberately being made uncomfortable is acceptable? How many is too many?

Transgender woman, 18, sexually assaulted girl, 10, in Morrisons toilet

Katie Dolatowski was spared jail despite a similar attack weeks earlier.

metro.co.uk

Lolwut? One instance is not a statistically significant increase and trans people are not a new phenomena. You know nothing of statistics much like many TERFs.

 

[bomberfox]

Your comments on the transmax community - "There are predators and others who try to take advantage of pretty much anything in all fields of life... non-related people will try to attach themselves to something for their own advantage but are not actually part of it. These "transmax" people are clueless."

You're attacking their feelings of gender, their motives, their explanation of their feelings, and questioning the genuineness.

Transmax community isnt even a trans community, its part of the incel phenomena, a violent misogynistic cult that feels entitled to sex. It is disingenuous for you to act like an incel scam represents trans people. Yes **** incels.

 

[bomberfox]

Trannymaxxing

Trannymaxxing, also known as transmaxxing, is the act of transitioning to another gender in the hope that it may help you to escape inceldom. There have been a few...

incels.wiki

I've seen enough things on gender critical sites to know that there is very much a misogynistic/incel trans subculture. The vast majority aren't, but a small number are definitely misogynistic/incel/get a kick out of unsettling women.

Photos they've put up of themselves in women's toilets carrying a sword gloating about how they'd just scared off a couple of cis women, photos of themselves in a women's toilets naked with an erection, 'kill cis women' tattoos on their arms, rape threats, death threats. I've seen the photos and read the tweets.

You have a reddit filled with people who are already extremely hostile to women (nevermind reddit being absolutely no proof of anything) the incel community which is an abusive cult that is not only inwardly abusive but also outwardly abusive as if they are actually a trans subculture. **** incels, each and every one of them. Nevermind their use of tranny which is a hostile slur against trans people should have given you a clue.

 

[bomberfox]

By the by, im rather glad Graham Lineham got his ass handed to him by a twitch streamer

 

[Lisa]

You have a reddit filled with people who are already extremely hostile to women (nevermind reddit being absolutely no proof of anything) the incel community which is an abusive cult that is not only inwardly abusive but also outwardly abusive as if they are actually a trans subculture. **** incels, each and every one of them. Nevermind their use of tranny which is a hostile slur against trans people should have given you a clue.

Reddit is a troll and hacker paradise. I don't even go over the without using a VPN and TOR because they are abusive and try to stalk you.

You may want to look into transmaxxer subculture. People, some of whom are incels, who want to transition to women for various reasons like wanting to experience multiple orgasms or because 'cis' women won't sleep with them and they want to try and get some queer action.

These are the stated benefits the transmax manifesto gives for transitioning:

Can you post a link to the Transmax manifesto? I've never heard of such nonsense.

What is transbien?

Thanks.

 

[Aristaeus]

Reddit is a troll and hacker paradise. I don't even go over the without using a VPN and TOR because they are abusive and try to stalk you.


Can you post a link to the Transmax manifesto? I've never heard of such nonsense.

What is transbien?

Thanks.

Transbian is a trans lesbian (aka a heterosexual male).

 

[bomberfox]

Reddit is a troll and hacker paradise. I don't even go over the without using a VPN and TOR because they are abusive and try to stalk you.


Can you post a link to the Transmax manifesto? I've never heard of such nonsense.

What is transbien?

Thanks.

Its probably a made up version of what incels frequently do to eachother which is lookmaxing, a pseudoscientific way in which incels frequently abuse eachother’s insecurities to pressure eachother into doing a lot of plastic surgery. Its an abusive cult that just feeds into people’s insecurities instead of helping anybody

the incel community does drag insecure young men into it but the majority of them are entitled pricks and borderline fascists.

The fact that TERFs think incel abuse is in any way representative of what makes someone trans shows how little they know. Every TERF ive had the displeasure of speaking with has been a vicious tyrant wannabe.

 

[bomberfox]

Transbian is a trans lesbian (aka a heterosexual male).

They arent male. Thinking a single dictionary gives you insight into more complicated biological and social processes gives me the idea you have not read any scientific literature on the subject.

 

[Lisa]

Its probably a made up version of what incels frequently do to eachother which is lookmaxing, a pseudoscientific way in which incels frequently abuse eachother’s insecurities to pressure eachother into doing a lot of plastic surgery. Its an abusive cult that just feeds into people’s insecurities instead of helping anybody

the incel community does drag insecure young men into it but the majority of them are entitled pricks and borderline fascists.

The fact that TERFs think incel abuse is in any way representative of what makes someone trans shows how little they know. Every TERF ive had the displeasure of speaking with has been a vicious tyrant wannabe.

I didnt even know that incels existed I until a year or so ago when I heard that term from a friend.

I met a few TERFs decades ago at Lillith Faire and they were an angry bunch of feminist gatekeepers.

Transbian is a trans lesbian (aka a heterosexual male).

If they are transgender then they obviously aren't male because the only transgendered males are FtM transguys, who logically cannot be lesbians. They are female and lesbians, despite what your incel community tells you.

 

[Aristaeus]

They arent male. Thinking a single dictionary gives you insight into more complicated biological and social processes gives me the idea you have not read any scientific literature on the subject.

Of course they're male. The clue is in the word trans. If they were a female woman they wouldn't be trans.

Do you not believe in the existence of male and female sex organs, m&f gametes, and m&f gonads?

Can you explain how some medicines require different dosages depending on if the recipient is male or female? Should a Dr give a transman the male or female dosage of a medicine?

Males and females differ in their response to drug treatment. These differences can be critical in response to drug treatment.

 

[Aristaeus]

I didnt even know that incels existed I until a year or so ago when I heard that term from a friend.

I met a few TERFs decades ago at Lillith Faire and they were an angry bunch of feminist gatekeepers.


If they are transgender then they obviously aren't male because the only transgendered males are FtM transguys, who logically cannot be lesbians. They are female and lesbians, despite what your incel community tells you.

My incel community? **** off, I'm a feminist.

Gender is not sex. TransGENDER.

What is a female?

 

[Lisa]

Transbian is a trans lesbian (aka a heterosexual male).

If they are transgender then they obviously aren't male because the only transgendered males are FtM transguys, who logically cannot be lesbians. They are female and lesbians, despite what your incel community tells you.

My incel community? **** off, I'm a feminist.

Gender is not sex. TransGENDER.

What is a female?

If you are as you claim a feminist then why are you quoting incels from Reddit? If you are a TERF then there is no point in having a conversation with you because you refuse to accept the fact that somebody can have a biological body of one gender and psychological gender identity of the other gender. Since the brain controls the body medical science changes the body to match the psychological gender identity/ sense of self. Drs in the past tried to change a person's psychological gender identity and the patients died of suicide.

A person is female when they have a female gender identity. If you are a guy, as your profile claims, then why do you care?

A transguy cannot be a lesbian because they aren't female. if a trans guy is attracted to females then he is heterosexual.

 

[maquiscat]

Your comments on the transmax community - "There are predators and others who try to take advantage of pretty much anything in all fields of life... non-related people will try to attach themselves to something for their own advantage but are not actually part of it. These "transmax" people are clueless."

You're attacking their feelings of gender, their motives, their explanation of their feelings, and questioning the genuineness.

Being clueless on what transitioning will do, such as allow multiple orgasms, reversing hair loss or reducing acne, in no way reflects on whatever gender they are. Noting that there are predators among the various communities, does not devalue or dismiss the actual members of the community. Your attempt to use predators, whether they are actual transgenders or not, as a way to discredit transgenders as a whole, is more transphobic than anything I have said. Your attempts to twist my words into strawman arguments of your own making equally fail.

 

[maquiscat]

HR5 seeks to define sex as "including gender identity". Anyone who feels as though they are a woman or dresses like a woman or has women's "mannerisms" (whatever that means) cannot be discriminated against.
Sex is about reproductive anatomy. Girls and women have been abused and trafficked and discriminated against based on their anatomy not on their feelings, dress, or mannerisms.

That definition is in reference to the law. Similarly, the law cannot state that only females are protected from abuse and trafficking. The law must include all cis females, cis males, trans males, trans females, gender flex and any other gender type that is out there. What about HR5 would prevent protection of girls and women from abuse and trafficking?

 

[maquiscat]

View attachment 67300940

In my half century of life, having been in the Navy and thus in several states, I can honestly say that is the first time I have ever seen a changing room labeled something other than women's. Even so, I would say that this is the exception not the rule. That said, then this would require that a transman, that looks nothing like a female, would be require to use this room instead of the male changing room. Is that what you are advocating?

 

[ProgressPlease]

That definition is in reference to the law. Similarly, the law cannot state that only females are protected from abuse and trafficking. The law must include all cis females, cis males, trans males, trans females, gender flex and any other gender type that is out there. What about HR5 would prevent protection of girls and women from abuse and trafficking?
[/QUOTE

H.R.5 is changing the definition of sex to *include* gender identity. Gender identity is not sex which is an immutable characteristic. There needs to be different language for protecting on the basis of social categories, if that is the intention.

The language:
sex (including sexual orientation and gender identity).” The bill defines ‘gender identity’ as “the gender-related identity, appearance, mannerisms, or other gender-related characteristics of an individual, regardless of the individual’s designated sex at birth”

The bill defines gender identity as appearance, mannerisms, etc, "regardless of sex". Yes, because a feeling of one's gender is not the same as one's sex category.

One can watch house members debate this issue - because it really is an issue.

 

[Aristaeus]

you because you refuse to accept the fact that somebody can have a biological body of one gender and psychological gender identity of the other gender.

Huh? If, as you claim, a transwoman is female and identifies as a woman then their sex and gender match