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Transgenderism vs Christianity

Masterhawk

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Many Christians oppose transgenderism because they're "saying that God is wrong". But is transgenderism really unbiblical?

If we use that same logic then plastic surgery, curing genetic diseases, and giving people born without certain body parts (or defective body parts) adequate replacements would also be considered "playing God" and sinful.
 
Many Christians oppose transgenderism because they're "saying that God is wrong". But is transgenderism really unbiblical?

If we use that same logic then plastic surgery, curing genetic diseases, and giving people born without certain body parts (or defective body parts) adequate replacements would also be considered "playing God" and sinful.

Attempting to change your gender is a little different than using a prosthetic...
 
Interesting question...anyone trying to answer from a Christian perspective, if they are being honest, will tell you they don't know, because it's not discussed in the Bible. However, it does tell us not to judge, and to love your neighbor as yourself...so, when all else fails, those are good fallback positions for a Christian.

That said, though, I'm sure this thread will very quickly become a sewer... But it is an interesting question. :)
 
God itself is assumed to be a male, for no good reason.
 
There is nothing in the Bible about it. My guess is lots of Christians just choose to lump it into the same category as homosexuality, which is discussed.
 
Interesting question...anyone trying to answer from a Christian perspective, if they are being honest, will tell you they don't know, because it's not discussed in the Bible. However, it does tell us not to judge, and to love your neighbor as yourself...so, when all else fails, those are good fallback positions for a Christian.

It tells us that the measure we use to judge others can be used against us (and it can, and the point about the human tendency towards hypocrisy is well-made). It also tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Personally, for example, were I the victim of a mental disorder, I would want my friends and family to take the uncomfortable actions of trying to speak truth to me and help me receive help, rather than playing into my delusions so that they can self-congratulate about how "tolerant" they are.


"Hey, look, cpwill is depressive and cutting himself. Should we try to get him to see someone?"

"No, no no. We should instead accept him for who he is, refuse to judge his cutting, and even celebrate his self-harm. That way we can be tolerant of him."

"Um. That seems less 'tolerant' of him and more 'tolerant' of leaving our friend in trouble."

"What are you, some kind of depressophobic bigot?"
 
Many Christians oppose transgenderism because they're "saying that God is wrong".

First of all, that is not a scientifically tenable position: "God made him [or her] that way."

As Politically Incorrect as it is to say this, it's not unreasonable to hypothesize Gender Identity Disorder has some psychological relatedness (like alcoholism to heroin addiction to meth addictions), to Body Integrity Identity Disorder or BIIDs.


Woman Wants To Be Permanently Paralysed: Body Integrity Identity Disorder


I Made Myself Blind: Living With BIID


Living With BIID: I Want To Cut Off My Leg

My personal view is God makes no one. Per se. The Theory of Evolution could be wrong. It could be. But as of now I accept it and it provides plenty of "explanatory power" as philosophers would say. That does not mean I believe in every prevailing hypothesis or explanation in the Theory. But at any rate... I believe in God, Christ, and Madonna, and my current view (it could alter over time) is that God is First Cause as theologians say, and that through the masterful art work of the universe and biological evolution, human choices in who they will mate with, he allows the creation of us to unfold without his dictatorial hand.

Of course, my view point encounters problems when it comes to the issue of "destiny," if one subscribes to the belief some or all people were destined for x, y, or z thing. But this dilemma has existed in Christianity since its beginning and to this day remains one of the mysteries within Christianity: how can free will exist when Joan of Arc et al. were presumably destined to fulfill the rolls they did.

But I'm fine with mysteries. The Orthodox accept that easier than Catholics and Protestant whom are products of the rational West, which gave forth science, so they like to have an answer for everything. I think Thomas Aquinas even tried to philosophically work out, by use of logic, the purpose of music. :lol:

But is transgenderism really unbiblical?

That would seem to be the proper interpretation. You know, the Bible is not written in the literature style of a modern day instruction manual, and so the theological business of interpretation is more difficult then that. But Catholicism and Orthodoxy draw upon a mountain of teaching outside of the Bible. First is the oral tradition and second is the mountains of literature composed by saints and Doctors of the Church (a few of whom are female--its a title bestowed saying x person shaped the spiritual dynamics and understanding of the whole Church). The prayers of the Church dating back centuries and to the earliest days of the Church also function as a teaching tool. Because the Church has a saying "it believes what it prays."

Anyways, the Bible suggests that men that dress like women will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

One must bear in mind certain terms and concepts we have today (particularly in English) did not exist among ancient Jews (or ancient people) or Early Christians. The conceptualization of homosexuality, as a specific type difference, did not exist among ancient Jews or Early Christians even. They viewed two men sexually active with each other as a behavior springing forth from "passions." The term passions can be translated different ways including what ancient people would have thought of as addiction or obsession. But they conceptualized these people as the same type as people we call heterosexual, but merely by way of passions caught in their same-sex sins.

Likewise with the concept of transsexuals or this non-binary people that demand they are neither a he or a she but a "they" in one body.
 
If we use that same logic then plastic surgery, curing genetic diseases, and giving people born without certain body parts (or defective body parts) adequate replacements would also be considered "playing God" and sinful.

The Catholic Church acknowledges the difference between gender and biological sex. Just as sociology as a social science does. The difference between the two is that the former says, speaking in morality terms, that a person's gender should align with their biological sex. The latter views it as an amoral issue.

The problem is you people that argue the position you do logically regress into stereotypes about what separates males and females in behaviors and how they think. Then you scream murder when conservatives reared in the 1950s do that.

You people also turn into hypocrites when you are all for an 18 year-old boy getting female breast implants but cry murder about how superficial it is for a girl of the same age, cursed with tiny breast, to get the same done. Then you all are screaming that the girl should "Just be happy with your body as it is!"
 
In the science of biology the biological sexes are used for the explanatory power of explaining how species reproduce, or in our case how human reproduce. Contrary to what most people think the science is not predicated on "how you feel" (meaning, "I feel like a woman" or "I feel like a man).

So, this pregnant person may be socially male (gender) but is still biologically female (sex).

 
Many Christians oppose transgenderism because they're "saying that God is wrong". But is transgenderism really unbiblical?

If we use that same logic then plastic surgery, curing genetic diseases, and giving people born without certain body parts (or defective body parts) adequate replacements would also be considered "playing God" and sinful.

That's not the "Christian" argument against transgenderism.

Here is a more typical "Christian" argument against transgenderism:
https://www.focusonthefamily.com/so...ted-them-genesis-and-gods-design-of-two-sexes


Other "Christian" responses to transgenderism focus on the idea that it is a disorder that people are trying to normalize, or they tie it to homosexuality and use the same doctrines that cause them to be against homosexuality.

No one I know of uses the argument you propose.
 
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It tells us that the measure we use to judge others can be used against us (and it can, and the point about the human tendency towards hypocrisy is well-made). It also tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Personally, for example, were I the victim of a mental disorder, I would want my friends and family to take the uncomfortable actions of trying to speak truth to me and help me receive help, rather than playing into my delusions so that they can self-congratulate about how "tolerant" they are.
Being transgender is not a mental disorder. You cannot stop someone from identifying as a different gender with therapy and/or SSRIs.

This is also not about people boasting about tolerance. The transgender community has been the target of discrimination for a long time, including within lesbian, gay, feminist and other communities.
 
Being transgender is not a mental disorder.

:shrug: we disagree. When the mind stubbornly insists upon a reality that is physically false, it is the mind that is broken, not physical reality.


This is also not about people boasting about tolerance.

That seems often belied by the actions of the PC crowd. Self-Congratulation and being more-woke-than-thou (which is simply another form of self-congratulation) seem often central, especially when addressing others.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
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:shrug: we disagree. When the mind stubbornly insists upon a reality that is physically false, it is the mind that is broken, not physical reality.
Ironically, people suffering from depression are not "insisting upon a reality that is physically false." They have a mental illness that affects their mood and cognition -- their subjective experiences -- not their perceptions of the physical world.

Further, gender is a social concept that does not precisely map to the idea of biological sex, as indicated by significant variations in ideas about gender in numerous cultures and subcultures.

I.e. A transgender person is not insisting that glass is edible, or that you can live off of air alone. They don't deny their biological sex, they experience that their gender identity does not match their biological sex.

And again, I don't know of any evidence that therapy and/or psychiatric medications successfully realigns gender identity to biological sex. If that was the case, it'd be a viable option, and would have developed in the decades when ideas like reassignment surgery were rare and stigmatized.


That seems often belied by the actions of the PC crowd. Self-Congratulation and being more-woke-than-thou (which is simply another form of self-congratulation) seem often central, especially when addressing others.
That is a very recent phenomenon, and far from universal.

Consider the dust-up over transgender issues on Survivor this year. One player was transgender, and didn't tell any of the other players. Another player, who was a gay man, figured it out and publicly accused the transgender player of being "deceptive" for not telling anyone. Not exactly woke... or entirely uncharacteristic for the gay community, which spent years excluding transgender from the LG community. (They also don't tend treat bisexuals very well, by the way...)
 
Screw the church(s). They have enough rattling bones in their closets to cover up. And to be out picking on transsexuals and gays?

Pure bigotry!

If Jesus ever did come back, he would be freaking pissed.
 
Ironically, people suffering from depression are not "insisting upon a reality that is physically false."

A man who insists he is a woman, however, is.

Further, gender is a social concept that does not precisely map to the idea of biological sex, as indicated by significant variations in ideas about gender in numerous cultures and subcultures.

No - you are confusing social norms and gender roles with actual gender. A man who feels like wearing dresses is (in this society) a cross dresser. A man who insists he is a really woman is delusional.

And again, I don't know of any evidence that therapy and/or psychiatric medications successfully realigns gender identity to biological sex. If that was the case, it'd be a viable option, and would have developed in the decades when ideas like reassignment surgery were rare and stigmatized.

Reasoning backwards from "we don't have a good cure for this condition" to "therefore this condition does not exist" is an odd logical path. What other diseases don't exist because we can't cure them?

That is a very recent phenomenon, and far from universal.

Eh. Pharisaic moral preening is a pretty human tendency, with a pretty long track record.
 
It tells us that the measure we use to judge others can be used against us (and it can, and the point about the human tendency towards hypocrisy is well-made). It also tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Personally, for example, were I the victim of a mental disorder, I would want my friends and family to take the uncomfortable actions of trying to speak truth to me and help me receive help, rather than playing into my delusions so that they can self-congratulate about how "tolerant" they are.


"Hey, look, cpwill is depressive and cutting himself. Should we try to get him to see someone?"

"No, no no. We should instead accept him for who he is, refuse to judge his cutting, and even celebrate his self-harm. That way we can be tolerant of him."

"Um. That seems less 'tolerant' of him and more 'tolerant' of leaving our friend in trouble."

"What are you, some kind of depressophobic bigot?"

Apparently cpwill still doesn't understand that transsexualism is not a mental disorder in and of itself.
 
:shrug: we disagree. When the mind stubbornly insists upon a reality that is physically false, it is the mind that is broken, not physical reality.

It's not about disagreement. You are incorrect. The issue is an incongruity between how the brain is wired for gender and how the body is wired for gender.


That seems often belied by the actions of the PC crowd. Self-Congratulation and being more-woke-than-thou (which is simply another form of self-congratulation) seem often central, especially when addressing others.

Actually, it's more about the lack of understanding and the refusal to learn about this issue from those on your side of it.
 
A man who insists he is a woman, however, is.

cp, I like you, I do, we agree on a lot. But you're being a little dishonest here. It's not that we insist we are "women" it's that we know we were born the wrong gender and it's causing us serious issues in our lives.

All we're seeking to do is live happy, and content.
 
cp, I like you, I do, we agree on a lot. But you're being a little dishonest here. It's not that we insist we are "women" it's that we know we were born the wrong gender and it's causing us serious issues in our lives.

Respectfully (the feeling is mutual), you are repeating a feeling that contradicts physical reality :(. Repeating it does nothing but demonstrate that you honestly feel it.

All we're seeking to do is live happy, and content.

Yup. I do not think we are likely to help you achieve that by reinforcing brokenness rather than trying to heal it. :(

You pointed out once that we had no "mind-fix" so the"body-fix" was the fix available. I can understand that. As someone who thinks it's not a healing, though, I just can't be satisfied with it or recommend it to others.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
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It's not about disagreement. You are incorrect. The issue is an incongruity between how the brain is wired for gender and how the body is wired for gender.

:) You repeat my point, simply with the opposite conclusion. The mind and physical reality disagree; I point out that when that happens (say, when the mind insists it is multiple people, or a famous person it isn't, or a different species, or a different gender, etc), that we are right to say it is the mind that is wrong. You wish to carve out a single exception.

Actually, it's more about the lack of understanding and the refusal to learn about this issue from those on your side of it.

:shrug: you are confusing "does not agree with me" with "refuses to learn".



Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
Apparently cpwill still doesn't understand that transsexualism is not a mental disorder in and of itself.

It at one time was considered to be...just because the 'experts' have changed their minds, that doesn't change a thing...who knows what they'll say tomorrow?
 
:) You repeat my point, simply with the opposite conclusion. The mind and physical reality disagree; I point out that when that happens (say, when the mind insists it is multiple people, or a famous person it isn't, or a different species, or a different gender, etc), that we are right to say it is the mind that is wrong. You wish to carve out a single exception.



:shrug: you are confusing "does not agree with me" with "refuses to learn".



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I see it more like someone says to themselves, "i wish i wasn't so overweight," and so they go and lose weight.

Your argument seems to be that they should stay overweight and just accept that they're overweight, or something. I'm not sure why anyone would care what someone else does to their body.
 
Many Christians oppose transgenderism because they're "saying that God is wrong". But is transgenderism really unbiblical?

If we use that same logic then plastic surgery,

Is probably vanity, but it's not like you're denying your identity.

curing genetic diseases,

Genetic diseases are abnormalities. However, if you start getting into mucking around with genes for skin color, height, etc., then you're disrupting the natural.

and giving people born without certain body parts (or defective body parts) adequate replacements would also be considered "playing God" and sinful.

You're misunderstanding the distinction between what's natural, unnatural, and what's an abnormality.
 
Interesting question...anyone trying to answer from a Christian perspective, if they are being honest, will tell you they don't know, because it's not discussed in the Bible. However, it does tell us not to judge, and to love your neighbor as yourself...so, when all else fails, those are good fallback positions for a Christian.

That said, though, I'm sure this thread will very quickly become a sewer... But it is an interesting question. :)

This interpretation of Jesus' teaching totally goes against His actions with a whip in the Temple.
 
This interpretation of Jesus' teaching totally goes against His actions with a whip in the Temple.

Arg...I feel like I'm gonna regret this, but I'm all about giving people the benefit of the doubt today. How so, phat?
 
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