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Transgender Woman Arrested for Taking Pictures in Target Changing Room

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Sheriff’s deputies responded to the store after a woman reported that someone was taking pictures of her while she was trying on clothes inside a dressing room. The victim noticed the suspect reaching over the wall with a cellphone taking pictures and confronted her, prompting the suspect to flee the store on foot.

According to a Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office news release, “Detectives were able to review witness information and security footage from Target that led them to come in contact with 43-year-old Sean Patrick Smith, who also identifies as Shauna Patricia Smith, a transgender female.

Transgender Woman Arrested for Taking Pictures in Target Changing Room : snopes.com

I thought things like this weren't supposed to happen. In fact, I pretty much believed they wouldn't and said so several times but, if you look at the picture of the person at the link, he does not look female at all or look like he's even trying so is he really trans or just saying so to take a few pics? It also bothers me that the suggestion that something was only done about this because it occurred in a dressing room, not a bathroom and therefore was not subject to Target's policy regarding trans people using their bathrooms. So would nothing have been done had this been in a Target bathroom?

And yes, the link is from Snopes and they confirm this story is true (unlike a similar story in April).
 
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cpwill

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Transgender Woman Arrested for Taking Pictures in Target Changing Room : snopes.com

I thought things like this weren't supposed to happen. In fact, I pretty much believed they wouldn't and said so several times but, if you look at the picture of the person at the link, he does not look female at all or look like he's even trying so is he really trans or just saying so to take a few pics? It also bothers me that the suggestion that something was only done about this because it occurred in a dressing room, not a bathroom and therefore was not subject to Target's policy regarding trans people using their bathrooms. So would nothing have been done had this been in a Target bathroom?

And yes, the link is from Snopes and they confirm this story is true (unlike a similar story in April).

Gosh. It's almost as if, if we guarantee predators access to victims, they will take advantage of that....
 

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Gosh. It's almost as if, if we guarantee predators access to victims, they will take advantage of that....

It sure is quiet all up in here, which is puzzling since it sure wasn't quiet during the whole debate whenever someone said things like this would happen. I still believe trans people should use the bathroom of the gender they're living but I don't think some dude should get a pass just for saying he's trans when there's no reason to believe that's the case.
 

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I thought things like this weren't supposed to happen.
You need to be careful about claims of what some people said “weren't supposed to happen”. The ongoing controversy surrounding Target involved transgender customers using single-sex bathrooms. This incident involves what are probably unisex changing rooms. There’s nothing in the article to suggest that the appearance or apparent gender identity of the suspect was in any way relevant.

I know from people who work in clothing stores that it’s not unknown for people to try to peak at people in changing rooms and if this incident hadn’t involved someone who (is reported as being) transgender, I doubt it would have made the news at all.
 

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It sure is quiet all up in here, which is puzzling since it sure wasn't quiet during the whole debate whenever someone said things like this would happen. I still believe trans people should use the bathroom of the gender they're living but I don't think some dude should get a pass just for saying he's trans when there's no reason to believe that's the case.

No one is getting a pass, this perv is is getting punished, right?
 

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You need to be careful about claims of what some people said “weren't supposed to happen”. The ongoing controversy surrounding Target involved transgender customers using single-sex bathrooms. This incident involves what are probably unisex changing rooms. There’s nothing in the article to suggest that the appearance or apparent gender identity of the suspect was in any way relevant.

I know from people who work in clothing stores that it’s not unknown for people to try to peak at people in changing rooms and if this incident hadn’t involved someone who (is reported as being) transgender, I doubt it would have made the news at all.

The article starts off this way;

"A transgender woman was arrested after allegedly taking photos in a women’s changing room at an Idaho Target store."

Also, is it possible to lie about being trans?
 

roguenuke

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It sure is quiet all up in here, which is puzzling since it sure wasn't quiet during the whole debate whenever someone said things like this would happen. I still believe trans people should use the bathroom of the gender they're living but I don't think some dude should get a pass just for saying he's trans when there's no reason to believe that's the case.

How do you prove the person is a "dude"? You go entirely on looks? So you think women would be less likely or more likely to notice someone who looks almost completely like a man (whether one or not) trying to spy on them or someone who looks like they could be a woman, like they are trying to be a woman trying to spy on them?

Videotaping, taking pics of someone changing in public is still illegally, no matter the gender or sex of the person doing it or having it done to them. The controversy is more likely to bring notice to those doing it, at least for now. But stores you shop in do not have a right to know your gender, sex, whether you are transgender.


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No one is getting a pass, this perv is is getting punished, right?

Only because this occurred in a dressing room, not a bathroom. That's how the article makes it sound, anyway.
 

TheGoverness

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Only because this occurred in a dressing room, not a bathroom. That's how the article makes it sound, anyway.

I'm pretty sure if the same thing had occured in a bathroom, something similar to this would have happened.
 

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The article starts off this way;

"A transgender woman was arrested after allegedly taking photos in a women’s changing room at an Idaho Target store."

Also, is it possible to lie about being trans?
I’d previously been given the impression that Target’s changing areas were all unisex (it came up in the bathroom debates). I could have been misinformed but I’d need more than headline grammar in a third-hand report to determine whether the suspect’s apparent gender was relevant to them where they were. They could have been lying about being transgender, they could have been telling the truth, they could actually be genetically female; their offence is exactly the same regardless.
 

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How do you prove the person is a "dude"? You go entirely on looks? So you think women would be less likely or more likely to notice someone who looks almost completely like a man (whether one or not) trying to spy on them or someone who looks like they could be a woman, like they are trying to be a woman trying to spy on them?

Videotaping, taking pics of someone changing in public is still illegally, no matter the gender or sex of the person doing it or having it done to them. The controversy is more likely to bring notice to those doing it, at least for now. But stores you shop in do not have a right to know your gender, sex, whether you are transgender.


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I make a whole lot of judgments every single day based off what I see. Is that lunch meat edible? Is that approaching dog being aggressive or friendly? Am I too close to the car in front of me? Is it safe to hop in the car with the tatted up gang bangers who just offered me a ride? In fact, maybe I'm the only person who this is true for, but the vast majority of what I base certain judgments on is based on what I see, and what see is that the dude in the pic is, in fact, a dude.
 

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Transgender Woman Arrested for Taking Pictures in Target Changing Room : snopes.com

I thought things like this weren't supposed to happen. In fact, I pretty much believed they wouldn't and said so several times but, if you look at the picture of the person at the link, he does not look female at all or look like he's even trying so is he really trans or just saying so to take a few pics? It also bothers me that the suggestion that something was only done about this because it occurred in a dressing room, not a bathroom and therefore was not subject to Target's policy regarding trans people using their bathrooms. So would nothing have been done had this been in a Target bathroom?

And yes, the link is from Snopes and they confirm this story is true (unlike a similar story in April).

A person took a picture where it is illegal to take a picture.

Obviously, passing a new law to make it illegal to be there will solve the problem!! :doh
 

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Whether you are transgender or not, taking pictures of women in a changing room or taking pictures of little boys in a bathroom, it is illegal.

This person broke the law and is being charged. Case closed.
 

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I make a whole lot of judgments every single day based off what I see. Is that lunch meat edible? Is that approaching dog being aggressive or friendly? Am I too close to the car in front of me? Is it safe to hop in the car with the tatted up gang bangers who just offered me a ride? In fact, maybe I'm the only person who this is true for, but the vast majority of what I base certain judgments on is based on what I see, and what see is that the dude in the pic is, in fact, a dude.

None of this has anything to do with what I posted. You and everyone else are free to make the judgement that "X" person is a man or woman. How you act on that judgement is a different matter. You are not free to assault or harass someone simply because you feel, without any evidence beyond your judgement of their gender/sex, that they shouldn't be in a certain place because you feel that they are going to commit a crime simply because they are in that place. You are free to act in other ways upon that judgement, up to a point. There is a balance there though.
 

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A person took a picture where it is illegal to take a picture.

Obviously, passing a new law to make it illegal to be there will solve the problem!! :doh

No, what happened was an existing law was changed to allow the person to be there. We abrogated our responsibility to protect people in order to make a very small number of people feel better, not more safe, but just to let them feel better.
 

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No, what happened was an existing law was changed to allow the person to be there.

Yes, if the law said that only women can be in women's dressing rooms, then the man pictured below would never be able to gain entry to a women's dressing room.

1.png


So yeah, a law which would have prohibited this person from being there would have prevented this....the same way the law which prohibits taking pictures in a dressing room prevented this
 

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No, what happened was an existing law was changed to allow the person to be there. We abrogated our responsibility to protect people in order to make a very small number of people feel better, not more safe, but just to let them feel better.

Most places didn't have any laws in place to begin with. Many still don't. This belief that there are such laws is actually the biggest issue. Many places never had laws dictating that someone had to use the restroom or changing room of their matching sex or gender. It was simply done.
 

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Yes, if the law said that only women can be in women's dressing rooms, then the man pictured below would never be able to gain entry to a women's dressing room.

1.png


So yeah, a law which would have prohibited this person from being there would have prevented this....the same way the law which prohibits taking pictures in a dressing room prevented this

There is a legal process to have your gender changed on your BC. I'll bet that the person in the pic you posted has gone through that process (based on the level of effort they've already put in - i.e. multiple surgeries). Make the legal change or have gone far enough along that you're fully committed to the outcome (using a physician's and therapist's assessment) and you're fine. But what's being argued is about the people who will abuse this privilege to take advantage of other people's new vulnerability. It's a matter of setting aside your responsibility to try to create a new right.
 

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There is a legal process to have your gender changed on your BC. I'll bet that the person in the pic you posted has gone through that process (based on the level of effort they've already put in - i.e. multiple surgeries). Make the legal change or have gone far enough along that you're fully committed to the outcome (using a physician's and therapist's assessment) and you're fine. But what's being argued is about the people who will abuse this privilege to take advantage of other people's new vulnerability. It's a matter of setting aside your responsibility to try to create a new right.

Yes, a new law prohibiting people from going into a bathroom meant for a gender other than their legally recognized one will prevent people from taking pictures in dressing rooms

The same way the law which prohibits anyone from taking pictures in a dressing room prevented this from happening
 

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Yes, a new law prohibiting people from going into a bathroom meant for a gender other than their legally recognized one will prevent people from taking pictures in dressing rooms

The same way the law which prohibits anyone from taking pictures in a dressing room prevented this from happening

Why is that the left always defaults to arguing about bathrooms, while the right keeps focusing on changing/dressing/locker rooms?? Do you understand that we don't care who is pooping the in the stall next to us, but we do care about making people more vulnerable to the kind of thing in the OP?? We keep telling you that "A" is wrong, and you keep arguing against "B".
 

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Why is that the left always defaults to arguing about bathrooms, while the right keeps focusing on changing/dressing/locker rooms?? Do you understand that we don't care who is pooping the in the stall next to us, but we do care about making people more vulnerable to the kind of thing in the OP?? We keep telling you that "A" is wrong, and you keep arguing against "B".

Even in fitting rooms, there are stalls, doors, or are supposed to be. They are not different than restrooms. We don't change openly in front of other women in fitting rooms within stores. That isn't normally done. So then whatever point is made to restrooms, pretty much applies to fitting rooms, and vice versa, on this subject.
 

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Transgender Woman Arrested for Taking Pictures in Target Changing Room : snopes.com

I thought things like this weren't supposed to happen. In fact, I pretty much believed they wouldn't and said so several times but, if you look at the picture of the person at the link, he does not look female at all or look like he's even trying so is he really trans or just saying so to take a few pics? It also bothers me that the suggestion that something was only done about this because it occurred in a dressing room, not a bathroom and therefore was not subject to Target's policy regarding trans people using their bathrooms. So would nothing have been done had this been in a Target bathroom?

And yes, the link is from Snopes and they confirm this story is true (unlike a similar story in April).



The wonder world of normalization of mental illness. Ain't it grand?
 

sangha

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Why is that the left always defaults to arguing about bathrooms, while the right keeps focusing on changing/dressing/locker rooms?? Do you understand that we don't care who is pooping the in the stall next to us, but we do care about making people more vulnerable to the kind of thing in the OP?? We keep telling you that "A" is wrong, and you keep arguing against "B".

Why do right wingers always ignore that someone who ignored the law prohibiting the taking of pictures in a dressing room will not be deterred by a law prohibiting them from going into the dressing room to begin with?
 

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Why do right wingers always ignore that someone who ignored the law prohibiting the taking of pictures in a dressing room will not be deterred by a law prohibiting them from going into the dressing room to begin with?

Because there are people who can stop them from going into those places in the first place. No, it's not 100% effective, but it's lot better than just opening the door for them...
 
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