• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Transgender Victoria Secret Model - Breaking Down Barriers

hanger4

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
1,497
Location
WNC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I know it is hard to tell, only being mentioned in the thread title and story, but this is not about an athlete, but about a model.
It's about whether she's a she or she's a he and she's a he and always will be regardless of hormone therapy or surgery.

What they wish to be call is fine, but it doesn't make it so.
 

hanger4

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
1,497
Location
WNC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
And dying your hair brunnette doesn't change your natural hair color. And in the same way that I wouldn't care if a blonde wanted to live life as a brunette, I don't care if someone born a man wants to live as a female.
Nor do I.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
The DNA doesn't change, regardless of hormone therapy or surgery.
Do you ask to see a person's DNA when you meet them? Do you ask to see their genitals before you say hello or shake their hand?

We do not experience the world as our DNA. Trans people would love to be able to change their DNA but that is not possible, so they accept what is possible to allow them to live in some people with their physical body. If you have a better idea that is better than the current med-psych treatment then why don't you put it forth for others to examine?
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70,878
Reaction score
12,991
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right

hanger4

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
1,497
Location
WNC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
That is as stupid as saying that because of their DNA they cannot be gay, bi or lesbian. A person's DNA does not define their psychological gender identity because if it did then trans people would not exist. Our DNA defines our physical bodies, but there can be more than XX or XY because of intersexxed people.
Transgendered people have the DNA of one gender and the psychological gender identity of another. Medical science cannot change their gender identity so it changes their physical gender, as much as medically possible with hormones and then surgery to align with their gender identity.

Why does it matter to you? Do you feel threatened by trans people or is it the fact that you believe a bible which is 1200 pages of bad fiction and bronze age bigotry? Do you feel strange when you see a trans woman and think she is attractive? Make you feel guilty about watching trans porn...........
*Medical science cannot change their gender identity*

One can claim whatever "gender" identity they wish, it won't change their XX or XY.

Your second paragraph is childish baiting.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
And the DNA/Chromosomes say?
Our DNA does not always determine our gender identity because if it did then trans people would not exist. Trans people do not choose to be trans. They are born trans.

Did you choose to be heterosexual? I know that I didn't choose. I've always been attracted to men, even before I understood why.
What is it about trans people that bothers you or that you so oppose? Are you threatened by them because they live outside what most people think are male and female? Maybe you feel guilty for enjoying transgendered porn and are not sure how you would react if you found a trans person attracted when you met her face-to-face.
 
Last edited:

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
*Medical science cannot change their gender identity*

One can claim whatever "gender" identity they wish, it won't change their XX or XY.

Your second paragraph is childish baiting.
Our chromones do not determine our psychological gender identity, so stop using our DNA to try to refuse trans people existing as natural and not as a choice. Trans people have always existed.

You want to hate them and you want to try to claim that they choose to be trans so as to legitimatize your disapproval and bigotry.
 
Last edited:

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Presuming motive much?
What is the alternative motive for claiming the DNA is proof that being transgender is a conscious choice and is biologically unnatural? They are looking for a reason to treat them as freaks and not as people equal to them. Logically, I have to wonder what is their motive to do that?
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70,878
Reaction score
12,991
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Our DNA does not always determine our gender identity because if it did then trans people would not exist. Trans people do not choose to be trans. They are born trans.

Did you choose to be heterosexual? I know that I didn't choose. I've always been attracted to men, even before I understood why.
What is it about trans people that bothers you or that you so oppose? Are you threatened by them because they live outside what most people think are male and female? Maybe you feel guilty for enjoying transgendered porn and are not sure how you would react if you found a trans person attracted when you met her face-to-face.
Last time I checked DNA did indeed determine what you are.

It has nothing to do with choice, desire, wants, fears, etc.

And, please, stuff it with the "fear" nonsense.

That is just a fallback people use when they have lost the argument....
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Interested in seeing a before pic. I wonder how much money in plastic surgery it took.
Why do you think that she had facial reconstructive surgery?
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70,878
Reaction score
12,991
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Our chromones do not determine our psychological gender identity, so stop using our DNA to try to refuse trans people existing as natural and not as a choice. Trans people have always existed.

You want to hate them and you want to try to claim that they choose to be trans so as to legitimatize your disapproval and bigotry.
Identifying what is =/= Want to hate

Please fail again.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Last time I checked DNA did indeed determine what you are.

It has nothing to do with choice, desire, wants, fears, etc.

And, please, stuff it with the "fear" nonsense.

That is just a fallback people use when they have lost the argument....
DNA determines our biology. It does not determine or brain. LGB people have a brain that has some similarities with the brain of heterosexual counterparts, such as parts of the brains of lesbians resembles that of hetero men.
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70,878
Reaction score
12,991
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
What is the alternative motive for claiming the DNA is proof that being transgender is a conscious choice and is biologically unnatural? They are looking for a reason to treat them as freaks and not as people equal to them. Logically, I have to wonder what is their motive to do that?
What is being claimed is that someone with male DNA is genetically a male.

What is illogical about that?
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70,878
Reaction score
12,991
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
DNA determines our biology. It does not determine or brain. LGB people have a brain that has some similarities with the brain of heterosexual counterparts, such as parts of the brains of lesbians resembles that of hetero men.
And biologically this person is __________?
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Identifying what is =/= Want to hate

Please fail again.
How do you explain the physical differemnces in a transgendered person's brain? Psychologists/psychiatrists in the past tried to change their gender identity and the patients died.

What is your treatment ideas that are preferred if you want me to take your arguments seriously?
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
And biologically this person is __________?
You are stuck on the idea that they are biologically different from their psychological gender identity. Do you deny that psychological gender identity exists?
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70,878
Reaction score
12,991
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
How do you explain the physical differemnces in a transgendered person's brain? Psychologists/psychiatrists in the past tried to change their gender identity and the patients died.

What is your treatment ideas that are preferred if you want me to take your arguments seriously?
You are the triggered one trying to ascribe hatred and fear to people you don't see eye to eye with.

Biologically is this person male or female?
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,751
Reaction score
4,254
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Hey, look. A non-answer.
Do you deny that psychological gender identity exists and can be incongruent with a person's biological gender? A yes or no answer will suffice.
 
Top Bottom