Transgender minors have a right to gender-affirming care, Justice Dept. warns states

[RetiredUSN]

Hormone blockers can be literally life-saving. They allow trans youth to pass as the gender they want to present as instead of being locked into the gender they were assigned as.

You, on the other hand, want them to go through puberty in a mismatched body against their will. How cruel.



Even more unhinged nonsense.

I support compassionate, evidence-based care for trans youth. Why do you oppose it? What did these youth do to you?

Hormone blockers have side affects too.

Tell me all about 12 year old's making wise decisions about later in life..........since you are a ****ing doctor.

 

[Phys251]

Hormone blockers have side affects too.

Tell me all about 12 year old's making wise decisions about later in life..........since you are a ****ing doctor.

From a children's hospital, not from me:

Puberty Blockers

Our Transgender Center offers puberty blockers, which can delay and help prevent unwanted changes like breast growth, facial hair, periods and voice deepening.

www.stlouischildrens.org

Why are you opposing the potential life-saving care for trans youth? Why do you want them to undergo puberty against their will?

 

[Lisa]

And your numbers are basically generated the same way because there is no SPECIFIC number as to how many kids want to transitition.

Trans people are very small in number and the current statistics are less than 5 in 1000. Why is this issue a problem for you? Where are you getting your information? All conservatives seem to be spouting the l same lies but they never reveal where they get this misinformation, likely because even they know it isn't credible and won't survive being fact-checked.

This issue and the decisions are to be made by the diagnosing psychologists and their Drs instead of someone who only knows what they have been spoon-fed by conservative talking points.

The number of young people seeking gender transition is at an all-time high but we hear very little, if anything, about those who may come to regret their decision.

There is currently no data to reflect the number who may be unhappy in their new gender or who may opt to detransition to their biological sex.

You are neither a Dr nor a psychologist.

 

[RetiredUSN]

From a children's hospital, not from me:

Puberty Blockers

Our Transgender Center offers puberty blockers, which can delay and help prevent unwanted changes like breast growth, facial hair, periods and voice deepening.

www.stlouischildrens.org

Why are you opposing the potential life-saving care for trans youth? Why do you want them to undergo puberty against their will?

Your into grooming and you don't have the courage to admit it.

Your so called life saving care can also lead to suicide and other mental issues later on when the child realizes he/she made a decision that ****ed them up even more.

Parents have the right to determine what the child does until they are old enough.

You are all about turning kids, not their welfare....................it's how you roll and you know it.

 

[Mithrae]

Hormone blockers have side affects too.

Tell me all about 12 year old's making wise decisions about later in life..........since you are a ****ing doctor.

It seems many Republicans/red states have decided that it's a decision which shouldn't be made by parents, doctors and patients, but by themselves and their politicians.

It seems you agree with the OP that using legislation to deny care to trans youth is despicable? That it's a decision which should be made by patients, doctors and parents rather than by the state?

 

[RetiredUSN]

It seems many Republicans/red states have decided that it's a decision which shouldn't be made by parents, doctors and patients, but by themselves and their politicians.

It seems you agree with the OP that using legislation to deny care to trans youth is despicable? That it's a decision which should be made by patients, doctors and parents rather than by the state?

More nonsense bordering on delusion.

Parents have the right................not the school or state.

It's not a Republican vs. Liberal issue but here you are using politics instead of what is right for the child or the parents.

Kids can change thoughts faster than you can create another inane posting on here. But you run with this bullshit anyways.

 

[Mithrae]

More nonsense bordering on delusion.

Parents have the right................not the school or state.

It's not a Republican vs. Liberal issue but here you are using politics instead of what is right for the child or the parents.

Kids can change thoughts faster than you can create another inane posting on here. But you run with this bullshit anyways.

You seem very angry about something. This isn't delusion, it's documented fact:

ALABAMA: Republican Governor Kay Ivey, a Republican, signed into law a bill that would criminalize parents and health care professionals who provide transition-related medical care to minors, with a penalty of up to 10 years in prison.

TEXAS: Bypassing the legislative process, Governor Greg Abbott issued an order to investigate parents who provide gender-affirming care to their transgender children. The order is currently being challenged in court.

Arkansas’ House Bill 157 prohibits health care workers from providing gender-affirming care or referrals for youths diagnosed with gender dysphoria, or the psychological stress a person experiences when their body doesn’t align with their gender.

New U.S. state laws directed at transgender youth

Conservative lawmakers have passed a flurry of bills this year directed at transgender youth, including measures that bar classroom discussion of gender identity, block access to healthcare to help young people transition, and restrict participation in sports.

www.reuters.com

ACLU sues Arkansas over ban on gender-affirming health care

The ACLU is taking the lead on legal action against legislation that prevents doctors from providing gender-affirming care to young clients.

19thnews.org

As of March 2022, 15 states have restricted access to gender-affirming care or are currently considering laws that would do so. The bills carry severe penalties for health care providers, and sometimes families, who provide or seek out gender-affirming care for minors.

Prohibiting Gender-Affirming Medical Care for Youth

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

You seem truly loathe to admit it, but it looks as though you secretly agree with the OP that these attempts by red states to legislate against gender-affirming care for transgender youth really are despicable: It's obviously a decision which should belong with the doctors, patients and parents.

 

[Phys251]

Your into grooming and you don't have the courage to admit it.

Your so called life saving care can also lead to suicide and other mental issues later on when the child realizes he/she made a decision that ****ed them up even more.

Parents have the right to determine what the child does until they are old enough.

You are all about turning kids, not their welfare....................it's how you roll and you know it.

Your posts are completely off the deep end. You are shitting all over compassionate, potentially lifesaving care for trans youth.

All because...

 

[element94]

It's called an analogy. I understand how that could be too complicated for you to comprehend.

Ah, an insult. Things must be getting desperate for you. The dolphin thing is a ridiculous analogy, but possibly insightful for other reasons, none of which are good.

And I've refuted your opinion. Using the actual diagnostic manual. Your feelings don't make that go away. If you are one thing, and believe you are something you are clearly and demonstrably not, you are by definition and diagnosis, mentally ill. Whether you are a human who thinks they are a dolphin, or a male who thinks he is a female.

I also quoted the manual, plus those that treat people for gender dysphoria associated depression, but you've ignored that part.
Above all else, you haven't a clue about their situation, and more importantly you have no desire to understand it.

 

[Mithrae]

Ah, an insult. Things must be getting desperate for you. The dolphin thing is a ridiculous analogy, but possibly insightful for other reasons, none of which are good.

I also quoted the manual, plus those that treat people for gender dysphoria associated depression, but you've ignored that part.
Above all else, you haven't a clue about their situation, and more importantly you have no desire to understand it.

It seems like the 2013 DSM-5 reclassification of 'gender dysphoria' was a positive move, but still confusing for some people and therefore potential fodder for deliberate misinformation/propaganda from folk like @rahl. The World Health Organization's 2019 ICD-11 further clarifies by listing 'gender incongruence,' in its chapter on sexual health. Gender incongruence obviously can be (and thanks in part to widespread bigotry and ignorance, often is) associated with depression and dysphoria, but as others have posted (and rahl etc. have studiously ignored) in itself it is really not even a mental health condition, let alone disorder, but a biologically-based difference in sex development:

The origin of GI appears to be multifactorial. From the extensive research that has been conducted over the past few years, four main factors have been identified as key mechanisms: genes, hormones, epigenetics, and the environment. One of the current hypotheses suggests that GI could be related to a different sexual differentiation of the brain as a result of changes in the DNA sequence of the estrogen receptors ERs and androgen receptor AR genes.​

(PDF) The Biological Basis of Gender Incongruence

PDF | Gender incongruence (GI) is defined as an individual's discontent with their assigned gender at birth and their identification with a gender other... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Of course no matter how many times information like this is pointed out, it obviously won't stop the bigots from endlessly parading their (at best) primary-school understanding of 'basic biological facts' in an effort to force doctors and patients to conform to their will.

 

[rahl]

Ah, an insult.

Another word you don't know the meaning of.

Things must be getting desperate for you. The dolphin thing is a ridiculous analogy, but possibly insightful for other reasons, none of which are good.

It's perfectly apt. In both the dolphin, and the male/female analogy, both are equally false.

I also quoted the manual, plus those that treat people for gender dysphoria associated depression, but you've ignored that part.

The manual is quite clear. It's a mental illness.

Above all else, you haven't a clue about their situation, and more importantly you have no desire to understand it.

I do understand it, and I want them to get the help they actually need. Pandering to mental illness does not do them any good. We don't encourage people who think they are dolphins, or the children of deities. We shouldn't pander to people who are male and think they are female, and vice versa.

 

[rahl]

It seems like the 2013 DSM-5 reclassification of 'gender dysphoria' was a positive move, but still confusing for some people and therefore potential fodder for deliberate misinformation/propaganda from folk like @rahl. The World Health Organization's 2019 ICD-11 further clarifies by listing 'gender incongruence,' in its chapter on sexual health. Gender incongruence obviously can be (and thanks in part to widespread bigotry and ignorance, often is) associated with depression and dysphoria, but as others have posted (and rahl etc. have studiously ignored) in itself it is really not even a mental health condition, let alone disorder, but a biologically-based difference in sex development:

The origin of GI appears to be multifactorial. From the extensive research that has been conducted over the past few years, four main factors have been identified as key mechanisms: genes, hormones, epigenetics, and the environment. One of the current hypotheses suggests that GI could be related to a different sexual differentiation of the brain as a result of changes in the DNA sequence of the estrogen receptors ERs and androgen receptor AR genes.​

(PDF) The Biological Basis of Gender Incongruence

PDF | Gender incongruence (GI) is defined as an individual's discontent with their assigned gender at birth and their identification with a gender other... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Of course no matter how many times information like this is pointed out, it obviously won't stop the bigots from endlessly parading their (at best) primary-school understanding of 'basic biological facts' in an effort to force doctors and patients to conform to their will.

Not sure how me quoting the DSM verbatim, listing it as a mental illness, is disinformation? lol

 

[Mithrae]

Not sure how me quoting the DSM verbatim, listing it as a mental illness, is disinformation? lol

You haven't quoted the DSM verbatim in any of the dozens of posts I've seen, and gender incongruence certainly is not listed as a mental illness by either the APA or the WHO.

 

[element94]

We shouldn't pander to people who are male and think they are female, and vice versa.

What we shouldn't do is indulge the tired old tropes of the out-of-date mind. And we're not.

 

[rahl]

You haven't quoted the DSM verbatim in any of the dozens of posts I've seen, and gender incongruence certainly is not listed as a mental illness by either the APA or the WHO.

I've quoted it several times. Gender dysphoria is specifically listed as a mental illness.

 

[rahl]

What we shouldn't do is indulge the tired old tropes of the out-of-date mind. And we're not.

Reality doesn't change because it hurts your feelings. We don't pander to delusional people, such as those who believe they are demi gods, aliens or other animals. We should not pander to delusional people who think they are the opposite sex.

 

[Lisa]

I've quoted it several times. Gender dysphoria is specifically listed as a mental illness.

That mental illness is not a delusion because they do not experience the symptoms of a decision or schizophrenia. The treatment for that mental illness is transitioning. I have quoted this to you but you refuse to accept it. Repeating this lie does not make it true.

 

[rahl]

That mental illness is not a delusion.

It is, by definition. If you are male, and think you are female, you are delusional.

The treatment for that mental illness is transtioning.

No, it should be meds and therapy to help the patient get over their delusions. You don't treat delusional people by pandering to their delusions.

have quested this to you but you refuse to accept it.

Because it's lunacy. We don't treat schizophrenia by confirming the delusions the patient is experiencing. We treat it with meds and we help the patient to acknowledge reality. A male thinking they are female is no less a delusion.

 

[Lisa]

It is, by definition. If you are male, and think you are female, you are delusional.

No, it should be meds and therapy to help the patient get over their delusions. You don't treat delusional people by pandering to their delusions.

Because it's lunacy. We don't treat schizophrenia by confirming the delusions the patient is experiencing. We treat it with meds and we help the patient to acknowledge reality. A male thinking they are female is no less a delusion.

https://psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria

Where did you get your medical degree? Where did you do your post-graduate work?

Trans people are very sane. Gender dysphoria is not a delusion or schizophrenia and it can be proven with an MMPI test. Your ideas are closer to a delusion because the claim is not based on facts.

Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) | SKYbrary Aviation Safety

Description The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) is a psychological test that assesses personality traits and psychopathology. It is primarily intended to test people who are suspected of having mental health or other clinical issues. Although it was not originally designed to...

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[Mithrae]

I've quoted it several times. Gender dysphoria is specifically listed as a mental illness.

Whereas gender incongruence/transgender itself explicitly is not.

Mere reality won't change your views of course; as I noted, we've got ample proof that your goal is deliberate propaganda/misinformation, not mere ignorance.

 

[rahl]

https://psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria

Where did you get your medical degree? Where did you do your post-graduate work?

Trans people are very sane.

They are by definition, delusional.

Gender dysphoria is not a delusion or schizophrenia and it can be proven with an MMPI test.

Yes, it is quite demonstrably a delusion. If you are male, and think you are female, you are delusional. If you have conversations with people who are not there, you are delusional.

Your ideas are closer to a delusion because the claim is not based on facts.

They are of course based in fact. Thinking you are something you are not, is by definition and clinical diagnosis, delusional.

 

[rahl]

Whereas gender incongruence itself explicitly is not.

strawman

Mere reality won't change your views of course; as I noted, we've got ample proof that your goal is deliberate propaganda/misinformation, not mere ignorance.

I've consistently pounded you over the head with reality lol.

 

[Mithrae]

Parents have the right to determine what the child does until they are old enough.

@RetiredUSN even if you don't want to admit that you agree with the OP against the red states trying to make this a decision of politicians rather than parents, patients and doctors, I find discussion of parental 'rights' in this area quite interesting. I assume we can both agree that parents don't have complete and unilateral rights over their teenage children's medical wellbeing? For example, they cannot make a teenager go on puberty blockers against their will?

If not, then under what circumstances (if any) should parent/s be able to prevent a teenager from going on puberty blockers? For example if both the patient and their multiple specialists have determined over potentially years of consultation that they are indeed transgender and going through the wrong puberty would be bad for their mental and future physical wellbeing, should either parent be able to arbitrarily veto that? Or both parents? Maybe after consultation and family counseling to ensure that they at least have access to appropriate medical information? I'd consider that last a fairly reasonable position - even though there's also arguments for greater patient rights - whereas an arbitrary veto from either parent would be a fairly extreme position (albeit still infinitely better than the GOP efforts to legislate the issue).

 

[Lisa]

They are by definition, delusional.

Yes, it is quite demonstrably a delusion. If you are male, and think you are female, you are delusional. If you have conversations with people who are not there, you are delusional.

They are of course based in fact. Thinking you are something you are not, is by definition and clinical diagnosis, delusional.

Trans people are not delusional. They do not exhibit the symptom of delusion. The fact that they have a gender identity that is different from their biological gender is not a symptom of delusion or schizophrenia. You are 50+ years behind medical science because you either reject or do not understand the work of John Money who proved that gender identity exists and cannot be changed. There is no evidence that a person's gender identity can be changed by medication or therapy.

 

[rahl]

Trans people are not delusional.

A person who believes they are the opposite sex, is by definition delusional.

They do not exhibit the symptom of delusion.

If they believe they are the opposite sex that their DNA says they are, they are by definition delusional and exhibit those symptoms.

The fact that they have a gender identity that is different from their biological gender is not a symptom of delusion or schizophrenia.

Not schizophrenia, not. But delusion.

You are 50+ years behind medical science because you either reject or do not understand the work of John Money who proved that gender identity exists and cannot be changed.

I am not behind anything. Biology does not care that you are offended by reality.

There is no evidence that a person's gender identity can be changed by medication or therapy.

And that's sad for those delusional people. But just like very other delusional person, pandering to their delusions does not do them any good. We don't treat people who think they are demi gods, as demi gods lol.