Transgender bathroom choice

[Buck Ewer]

I went to art school in Boston in the 70s and there were no gendered rest rooms. All restrooms had stalls with doors and there were no urinals.
It was remarkably civilized.

 

[specklebang]

Sorry, Europeans may do as they please, their past and how they conduct themselves currently is not the proper path to our own future. They may be on a similar level intellectually, but they never seem to properly put it all together. Smart does not in any way indicate wisdom. We do a much better job over here.

I think it well within our means to provide a bathroom per school. If not, then those of questionable gender will have to deal with the situation and use the bathroom of the gender they were born with. We will survive only if we stop putting up with foolishness such as this. And you cannot use that old saw of slavery to get every liberal and/or deviant thing that some small segment in our society desires. The few are not in charge, the majority is... the whole system is based on majority rule.

You do not understand the Constitution if that is what your idea of the Constitution is. It is actually a framework for governing a nation. It did/does keep the tyranny of the minority, at that time in the form of one, King George III, from dominating the majority, the people. And, our founders/framers had the wisdom to understand that there can become an imbalance of the majority, yet still the majority rules. The minority, to combat this, was allotted rights however, these being the rights of freedom of speech, assembly, petition for relief of grievances... these rights allow the minority the ability to try to become the majority and have their will become the rule... that is indisputable.

The minority does not rule, sorry, that would be beyond a silly system.

Maybe you should look at the practical, rather than the political aspects.

For discussion sake, lets say that I'm a M2F transgender. Here is my picture:. Which bathroom do you want me to use?

Or, lets say I'm a F2M transgender:. Which bathroom should I use.

I think it is important to distinguish between gay and transgendered. You, of course, may not agree. But now it's your turn. Which bathrooms do you think are correct for these 2 (real) transgendered people. Lets not discuss rights or politics, lets choose an appropriate bathroom.

After we settle this, we'll go on to compare Europe with America and the concept of Constitutional protections.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Maybe you should look at the practical, rather than the political aspects.

For discussion sake, lets say that I'm a M2F transgender. Here is my picture:View attachment 67152033. Which bathroom do you want me to use?

Or, lets say I'm a F2M transgender:View attachment 67152034. Which bathroom should I use.

I think it is important to distinguish between gay and transgendered. You, of course, may not agree. But now it's your turn. Which bathrooms do you think are correct for these 2 (real) transgendered people. Lets not discuss rights or politics, lets choose an appropriate bathroom.

After we settle this, we'll go on to compare Europe with America and the concept of Constitutional protections.

I think that those who have gone through the surgical procedures to actually change their sex officially [transsexual ]have, in my opinion, "earned" the right to use the bathroom of the opposite sex of which they were born. I would say that those who have not done so should wear attire appropriate to their born gender if they want to use a public toilet.

 

[Manc Skipper]

All the people currently using those bathrooms believe they are in the one appropriate to their individual gender.

 

[Ontologuy]

California Gov. Brown signs transgender-student bill | Fox News Could anything be more ridiculous. This is crazy!

Girls do not want boys to see them doing what they do in the restroom or shower .. and to girls in a restroom or shower, a boy is all about his genitals, the physicality of his sex.

Girls will be freaked out that a physical-sex boy could walk into the restroom at any time .. and you bettter believe there will be raunchy guys exposing themselves to physical-sex girls who try to use the boys' restroom .. not to mention boys walking into the girls' restroom pretending to be transgender.

It doesn't matter what's in the transgender's mind -- what matters is the physical sex of the person in the restroom and the more than 99% of the population who will be freaked out by this scenario.

Elementary school kids have not had sex-change operations, and normals really aren't going to grasp what transgender means, certainly not enough to dress or pee in front of an opposite physical-sex kid.

In addition, with transsexuals, their self-identity gender isn't the only body-brain cross-purposes defect, sometimes their attracted-to gender is the same as their self-identity gender as well, so there's really no guaranteed solution here.

This legislation was a codependent dysfunction coupled with a political pander to the disaffected masses of the liberal Dems that own California, a really dumb and emotionally dysfunctional move.

Transgenders need to accept the birth-defect nature of their condition and make physical-sex their only restroom choice, even if they're attracted to that gender; they need to learn to live with their birth defect rather than requiring others to surrender their naturally understandable and very important psychological and physical boundary privacy.

And allowing a big 6'9" physical-sex boy to play basketball on the girls team??? Simply because his self-identity gender is a girl???

That's taking making allowances for those with birth defects way too far!

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I love threads like this where people list the most trivial excuses for their prejudice. "Men are icky so I don't want to share a bathroom with a woman who used to be one." "It will be confusing for the children. Who will think of the children?"

Shut up. You probably don't even know how many transgender people you've shared a bathroom with because you probably still don't know the difference between a transgender person and a drag queen.

You're uncomfortable with transgender people. You're ignorant. The end. It's that simple.

I think we now have the definition of ignorant alright, or at least the definitive example of the word. Everybody has to agree with you or they are ignorant? All must go along with any deviance you deem correct, just so you will be happy?

Oh, and bubba, and I cannot stress this enough but, thank god, you are not in charge.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Why don't transgenders just stay where they are if it's all so trivial?

I wasn't aware that all transgenders were all located in one place.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

A separate issue was being discussed: Someone else brought up the idea that blended-gendered bathrooms are becoming a norm in his country as opposed to male and female restroom facilities. Several of us in this thread were discussing that - a different situation. My previous comments were in regard to that, which was more of a notable topic. I resent being told I'm being trivial when it comes to the idea that, suddenly, I'm supposed to be okay dropping trow and popping out a tampon while in the same room with a man. So, I take it you saw some comments and assumed they were all aimed toward the OP topic.

I'm just clarifying that.

Thanks for the clarification. As far as the tampon comment, it's nonsensical given that you're doing that in a stall. Second, we're talking about transgender people using the bathroom of the gender they identify with which means you wouldn't be in the bathroom with a man; you'd be in the bathroom with A WOMAN. Third, like I said, you've probably already been in the bathroom with transgender women and didn't even know it.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I think we now have the definition of ignorant alright, or at least the definitive example of the word. Everybody has to agree with you or they are ignorant? All must go along with any deviance you deem correct, just so you will be happy?

Oh, and bubba, and I cannot stress this enough but, thank god, you are not in charge.

Ignorance is not defined by whether people agree with me. It is defined by whether or not people are educated. The people who are making trivial excuses for their prejudicial concerns about transgenders in their bathroom are ignorant.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I went to art school in Boston in the 70s and there were no gendered rest rooms. All restrooms had stalls with doors and there were no urinals.
It was remarkably civilized.

With the kind of language and sentiments expressed in a previous post of yours in this thread, I would have to assume the level of civilization might be a bit exaggerated... or at least of suspect appraisal.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Ignorance is not defined by whether people agree with me. It is defined by whether or not people are educated. The people who are making trivial excuses for their prejudicial concerns about transgenders in their bathroom are ignorant.

Ahhh...says you, going back to your definition only being defined by you.

I am pretty certain I can match your education, possibly raise you a degree or so... just because you do not agree with what they/we think to be the proper manner of thinking, well, that is in no way is an indication of level of education or a statement of ignorance... now your expressions, while you may very well be "educated", do seem to fall within those bounds of the true definition just by the fact that you would continue to defend such an obviously incorrect assumption.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I think you're mixing up the genders and arguing the reverse of what you mean.

The men fretting about unisex toilets.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Ahhh...says you, going back to your definition only being defined by you.

The only think I defined in that post was ignorance and I used the dictionary definition.

I am pretty certain I can match your education, possibly raise you a degree or so... just because you do not agree with what they/we think to be the proper manner of thinking, well, that is in no way is an indication of level of education or a statement of ignorance... now your expressions, while maybe you are educated, do seem to fall within those bounds just by the fact that you would continue to defend such an obviously incorrect assumption.

I'm not talking about levels of education. I'm talking about being educated specifically about transgender people. And, like I said, I don't think you're ignorant because you disagree with me. I think you're ignorant because you're ignorant.

 

[specklebang]

I think that those who have gone through the surgical procedures to actually change their sex officially [transsexual ]have, in my opinion, "earned" the right to use the bathroom of the opposite sex of which they were born. I would say that those who have not done so should wear attire appropriate to their born gender if they want to use a public toilet.

See, we're not so far apart after all

If you live as that gender, then you should be treated as such. It's not just as simple as a declaration, being TG is no easy lot in life.

I haven't even decided my species yet so I am forced to share bathrooms with humans. But I manage.

Meow.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

See, we're not so far apart after all

If you live as that gender, then you should be treated as such. It's not just as simple as a declaration, being TG is no easy lot in life.

I haven't even decided my species yet so I am forced to share bathrooms with humans. But I manage.

Meow.

Of course that is just my personal opinion, and the majority may decided otherwise. I would not agree with the idea that a former man can participate in women's sports, do not feel it appropriate for a former male to enter beauty pageants, etc...

And what about our debate on the Constitution and what it was all about?

 

[Your Star]

California Gov. Brown signs transgender-student bill | Fox News

Could anything be more ridiculous. This is crazy!

Great news!! Another step towards equality. Hopefully there will be laws like this in the whole country.

 

[CLAX1911]

I, myself, would not want to use a bathroom that other men have used - or are using. Ew. (RE Amsterdam). I like my gender-division and distance. What's so wrong with male and female? why do we all have to come together and sing kumbaya?

In an effort to be pc for a few people - everyone else is supposed to throw out their comfort zones? If it's a big issue - create a 3rd bathroom as some places already do, now - called 'the family bathroom' which is multi-gendered. Problems solved. :roll:

I would say, let the Trans gender people use the appropriate bathroom to their dress. Are we to start having crotch patrol before entering a bathroom

 

[Captain Adverse]

How many bathrooms do we need? Hell when I went to raves they were ALL unisex! LOL

 

[specklebang]

Of course that is just my personal opinion, and the majority may decided otherwise. I would not agree with the idea that a former man can participate in women's sports, do not feel it appropriate for a former male to enter beauty pageants, etc...

And what about our debate on the Constitution and what it was all about?

OK, let's do that.

It's called the equal protection clause. Without this principle, anything disapproved of by 51% of the population could be made illegal. But that's not how it works. The minority does not rule the majority but neither can the majority make rules that disadvantage the minority. Can you even imagine what life would be like without equal protection? How enthused are you about the billions spent to make everything handicap accessible. I'm not handicapped, why would I give a damn?

 

[Your Star]

I would say, let the Trans gender people use the appropriate bathroom to their dress. Are we to start having crotch patrol before entering a bathroom

Yeah, this is the answer. People just need to stop freaking out over something that in no way impacts them. It's really ridiculous when you think about it, trying to make a woman use the men's room just because they were born male-bodied.

 

[lizzie]

Yeah, this is the answer. People just need to stop freaking out over something that in no way impacts them. It's really ridiculous when you think about it, trying to make a woman use the men's room just because they were born male-bodied.

Frankly, I would not feel at all uncomfortable going into a bathroom with you, regardless of your sexual orientation, but I would feel uncomfortable going into a bathroom with a man who feels like, and wants to be, a woman. It has nothing to do with the sexual orientation or identity of either of you. It's a matter of conditioning since my childhood. You're a woman, and I am a woman. He is not a woman, no matter how much he feels like one, or wants to be one.

 

[Your Star]

Frankly, I would not feel at all uncomfortable going into a bathroom with you, regardless of your sexual orientation, but I would feel uncomfortable going into a bathroom with a man who feels like, and wants to be, a woman. It has nothing to do with the sexual orientation or identity of either of you. It's a matter of conditioning since my childhood. You're a woman, and I am a woman. He is not a woman, no matter how much he feels like one, or wants to be one.

Which person would you feel most uncomfortable using the restroom with? All these people are trans, but assume you didn't know that they are trans, which is what you would know if this were a real situation. Which person out of these 3 people would you feel uncomfortable seeing when you entered the woman's restroom? Please answer honestly.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

OK, let's do that.

It's called the equal protection clause. Without this principle, anything disapproved of by 51% of the population could be made illegal. But that's not how it works. The minority does not rule the majority but neither can the majority make rules that disadvantage the minority. Can you even imagine what life would be like without equal protection? How enthused are you about the billions spent to make everything handicap accessible. I'm not handicapped, why would I give a damn?

The majority can basically make whatever rules it wants to make. The equal protection clause is the 14th Amendment to the Constitution which was ratified after the Civil War, so it certainly could not be what the Constitution was/is all about since ratification of the original document in 1787. The 14th makes the application of what the majority rules sure to be evenly applied throughout the US and to its citizens.

 

[lizzie]

Which person would you feel most uncomfortable using the restroom with? All these people are trans, but assume you didn't know that they are trans, which is what you would know if this were a real situation. Which person out of these 3 people would you feel uncomfortable seeing when you entered the woman's restroom? Please answer honestly.

The one(s) who actually look like women, and that I have no knowledge of ever being otherwise. Otoh, my niece who wants to be a man, I would feel perfectly comfortable in the bathroom with, but that's because I know her, and have known her since she was a little girl. A man who wants to be a woman, but still looks like a man would make me uncomfortable. There's the honesty that you requested. The local elderly man, who dresses like a woman, and wears a bright red wig, and miniskirts would be a problem for me.

 

[Bodi]

Ahhh...says you, going back to your definition only being defined by you.

I am pretty certain I can match your education, possibly raise you a degree or so... just because you do not agree with what they/we think to be the proper manner of thinking, well, that is in no way is an indication of level of education or a statement of ignorance... now your expressions, while you may very well be "educated", do seem to fall within those bounds of the true definition just by the fact that you would continue to defend such an obviously incorrect assumption.

The old, "says you" argument! Brilliantly played my friend... brilliantly played. :lol: