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Toxic Masculinity and the Gun

calamity said:
Trying to cut down on 40,000 needless deaths is not needless. :roll:
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Those potential deaths? Minus the suicides (2/3 of that #) as there are NO gun laws that can end that without banning all guns/repealing the 2A.

So then at the expense of 13000 potential deaths...compared to the same number of potential deaths of the restricted gun owners/families?

How is one more needless than the other? Are the gun owners and our families' lives less valuable?
 
Lursa said:
Those potential deaths? Minus the suicides (2/3 of that #) as there are NO gun laws that can end that without banning all guns/repealing the 2A.

So then at the expense of 13000 potential deaths...compared to the same number of potential deaths of the restricted gun owners/families?

How is one more needless than the other? Are the gun owners and our families' lives less valuable?
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Ah, so 15,000 homicides are ignored because of the 25,000 suicides. I see. :roll:
 
calamity said:
Ah, so 15,000 homicides are ignored because of the 25,000 suicides. I see. :roll:
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Nope...just putting them in perspective with the number of gun owners/families lives that would also potentially be at risk.

So...care to answer the question?

How is one more needless than the other? Are the gun owners and our families' lives less valuable?
 
calamity said:
Ah, so 15,000 homicides are ignored because of the 25,000 suicides. I see. :roll:
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how many of those homicides are caused by people who cannot legally own guns at the time they killed

how many of those homicides were justifiable or excusable

how many of those homicides were of felons or those involved in criminal activity
 
TurtleDude said:
how many of those homicides are caused by people who cannot legally own guns at the time they killed

how many of those homicides were justifiable or excusable

how many of those homicides were of felons or those involved in criminal activity
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Gun deaths are gun deaths. And, guess what. They are on the rise.
 
calamity said:
Gun deaths are gun deaths. And, guess what. They are on the rise.
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There are also millions of more guns. Do a comparison of rates of illegal gun deaths in 1993 and now and see what you get. You will get the following-the number of guns increasing in society did not create a rise in gun deaths
 
TurtleDude said:
There are also millions of more guns. Do a comparison of rates of illegal gun deaths in 1993 and now and see what you get. You will get the following-the number of guns increasing in society did not create a rise in gun deaths
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Hogwash
 
calamity said:
Hogwash
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Given the paucity of information you bring to bear in your anti gun rants, I didn't expect you to understand that overall, as the number of guns have increased, there has been no evidence of murders with guns have increased as a result. And accidental gun deaths have declined.
 
TurtleDude said:
Given the paucity of information you bring to bear in your anti gun rants, I didn't expect you to understand that overall, as the number of guns have increased, there has been no evidence of murders with guns have increased as a result. And accidental gun deaths have declined.
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Back up your claims in post 356 with hard numbers or its hogwash. Homicide rates grew by 50% since 2014. That's a fact. I have no idea what to call the hogwash your selling but hogwash.
 
calamity said:
Back up your claims in post 356 with hard numbers or its hogwash. Homicide rates grew by 50% since 2014. That's a fact. I have no idea what to call the hogwash your selling but hogwash.
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To what to you attribute those rate increases?

For the years 2010 to 2017, the homicide rate averaged 4.8. The last decade with a homicide rate anywhere near that low was in the 1960s, where the average homicide rate was 5.5. If we look at just 1960-1967, the average homicide rate was 5.1.

FBI UCR numbers found here: United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

Prior to 1968, you could order long arms through the mail, including military surplus semiautomatic magazine fed rifles, delivered to your house, without a background check. Felons, drug users and the mentally incompetent were allow to possess guns. Machine guns were available for purchase.

Since then we've added the Gun Control Act of 1968, the Brady Act, the Hughes Amendment, the Lautenberg Amendment and many, many state laws restricting the rights of the people to keep and bear arms, and it's take 50 years to get back to a homicide rate where the only laws were the extra $200 charge for a machine gun tax stamp.

The ATF doesn't have manufacturing data prior to 1986 readily available, so we'll just use what we can get and take a mathematically conservative position that zero guns were made in the US between 1960 and 1986. From the ATF link below, we see that manufacturers in the US made just over 150 million guns from 1986 to 2016, exported almost 9 million and we imported another 67 million for a net growth of guns in the US of 213 million. Some of those went to military and LEO use, but we know the population numbers of those demographics and those numbers wouldn't make a material impact on the total figure.

In conclusion, even with all of the new laws we are just back to 1960s levels of homicide while increasing the number of guns in the US by about 200 million.

https://www.atf.gov/file/130436/download
 
Rucker61 said:
To what to you attribute those rate increases?

For the years 2010 to 2017, the homicide rate averaged 4.8. The last decade with a homicide rate anywhere near that low was in the 1960s, where the average homicide rate was 5.5. If we look at just 1960-1967, the average homicide rate was 5.1.

FBI UCR numbers found here: United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

Prior to 1968, you could order long arms through the mail, including military surplus semiautomatic magazine fed rifles, delivered to your house, without a background check. Felons, drug users and the mentally incompetent were allow to possess guns. Machine guns were available for purchase.

Since then we've added the Gun Control Act of 1968, the Brady Act, the Hughes Amendment, the Lautenberg Amendment and many, many state laws restricting the rights of the people to keep and bear arms, and it's take 50 years to get back to a homicide rate where the only laws were the extra $200 charge for a machine gun tax stamp.

The ATF doesn't have manufacturing data prior to 1986 readily available, so we'll just use what we can get and take a mathematically conservative position that zero guns were made in the US between 1960 and 1986. From the ATF link below, we see that manufacturers in the US made just over 150 million guns from 1986 to 2016, exported almost 9 million and we imported another 67 million for a net growth of guns in the US of 213 million. Some of those went to military and LEO use, but we know the population numbers of those demographics and those numbers wouldn't make a material impact on the total figure.

In conclusion, even with all of the new laws we are just back to 1960s levels of homicide while increasing the number of guns in the US by about 200 million.

https://www.atf.gov/file/130436/download
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Ah, so a low homicide rate is a bad thing now for the gunnies and used to justify it going back up. You guys crack me up.
 
calamity said:
Ah, so a low homicide rate is a bad thing now for the gunnies and used to justify it going back up. You guys crack me up.
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Why is the homicide rate now, even accounting for the recent rise, still on average, lower than any period since the 1950s when we had almost no gun laws and 200 million fewer guns? Are you ready to accept that TD's claim was not hogwash?

What do you think has lead to the recent increase in homicide rate?
 
Rucker61 said:
Why is the homicide rate now, even accounting for the recent rise, still on average, lower than any period since the 1950s when we had almost no gun laws and 200 million fewer guns? Are you ready to accept that TD's claim was not hogwash?

What do you think has lead to the recent increase in homicide rate?
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One word: Demographics
 
Rucker61 said:
How do you pass a law against demographics?

Are you ready to accept that TD's claim was not hogwash?
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What?

You asked why the number of violent homicides are lower now than they were in the 60's and 70's. The answer is demographics. I'll let you scratch your head for a while to figure out why.
 
calamity said:
What?

You asked why the number of violent homicides are lower now than they were in the 60's and 70's. The answer is demographics. I'll let you scratch your head for a while to figure out why.
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Well, according to the US Census bureau, the major demographic shifts since the sixties are the the percentage of the population that is white has declined from 88.6 to 72.4 from 1960 to 2010; The Black population has gone from 10.5 to 12.6% and the Hispanic population, likely included in the white population numbers cited previously, went from 4.5 in 1970 to 16.3 in 2010.

Demography of the United States - Wikipedia

There were two other questions that you keep avoiding:

Are you ready to accept that TD's claim was not hogwash? What do you think has lead to the recent increase in homicide rate (since 2014)?
 
Rucker61 said:
Well, according to the US Census bureau, the major demographic shifts since the sixties are the the percentage of the population that is white has declined from 88.6 to 72.4 from 1960 to 2010; The Black population has gone from 10.5 to 12.6% and the Hispanic population, likely included in the white population numbers cited previously, went from 4.5 in 1970 to 16.3 in 2010.

Demography of the United States - Wikipedia

There were two other questions that you keep avoiding:

Are you ready to accept that TD's claim was not hogwash? What do you think has lead to the recent increase in homicide rate (since 2014)?
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Ah, nice. A racist post. I see the trend continues whenever gun violence is discussed.
 
calamity said:
What?

You asked why the number of violent homicides are lower now than they were in the 60's and 70's. The answer is demographics. I'll let you scratch your head for a while to figure out why.
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There is no significant correlation between the number of homicides and the number of guns per capita. You are making a false equivalence.
 
calamity said:
Ah, nice. A racist post. I see the trend continues whenever gun violence is discussed.
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This shows how dishonest your anti gun BS is. You brought up demographics in an attempt to continue to spew nonsense about guns. Rucker Correctly answered your question and you dishonestly accuse him of racism.
 
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