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Torture

Should we torture prisoners?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 4 10.3%

  • No.

    Votes: 22 56.4%

  • Only in some cases

    Votes: 12 30.8%

  • I don't know.

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • Total voters
    39
The Mark said:
I am fairly certain that no one is for torture.........but interrogation is another story.

The real debate here is what torture is defined as. And that debate will never end, because peoples opinion of what torture is varies widely.

Also, I thought I'd mention that I, personally, do not hate the terrorists. And I agree with you that they are human of some sort. And most definitely brain-washed.

If we could stop the brain-washing, we would win this war.
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I think to some extent their ideas are based on reality. I too believe that there is a degree of brainwashing, but I think it starts with facts and they are made to understand the facts in certain way.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
I think to some extent their ideas are based on reality. I too believe that there is a degree of brainwashing, but I think it starts with facts and they are made to understand the facts in certain way.
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But their beliefs on Islam are false. Muhammed and Abraham would never allow such atrocities to occur. So it's not really fact, but the truth twisted to fuel evil's cause.
 
Donkey1499 said:
But their beliefs on Islam are false. Muhammed and Abraham would never allow such atrocities to occur. So it's not really fact, but the truth twisted to fuel evil's cause.
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That depends on how you look at it. I think Muhammed lost his damn mind in Medina, but the parts of the Koran written in Mecha were beautiful.

When I was talking about reality and brainwashing, I wasn't necessarily refering to the religious aspect. I was refering to what is seen on TV by any and everyone.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Just because every other country in the world has engaged in torture does not make it acceptable for us to engage in it. America should stand for something. It should be the greatest country in the world and through that medium we should show the world how to act, rather than showing them how everyone acts.
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I think we should do what it takes to win and be safe. I am not worried about the restof the world or there vision of US. I am worried about our country, our citizens, our safety. And if putting panties on your head while playin rap music with a barking dogs aids in getting information. Then we'll stop at the pound on the way to the panty depot and ear plug store.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
That depends on how you look at it. I think Muhammed lost his damn mind in Medina, but the parts of the Koran written in Mecha were beautiful.

When I was talking about reality and brainwashing, I wasn't necessarily refering to the religious aspect. I was refering to what is seen on TV by any and everyone.
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Yes, TV is so damn evil. HIDE THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!
 
Calm2Chaos said:
I think we should do what it takes to win and be safe. I am not worried about the restof the world or there vision of US. I am worried about our country, our citizens, our safety. And if putting panties on your head while playin rap music with a barking dogs aids in getting information. Then we'll stop at the pound on the way to the panty depot and ear plug store.
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Panties, rap music and dogs were not methods of torture they were methods of prisoner abuse that made us all look like a bunch of uncivilized and undisciplined men and women of the bully country.

I would rather live, as you would say, unsafely if the cost of safety is reducing what America is and all that it stands for.
 
Donkey1499 said:
Precisely. I don't mind interrogation, but torture (like what happened in Abu-Ghrab) is not necessary, and it just lowers us to their standard.

Interrogation in my opinion is like what you see on a Law & Order. Get to their head (like Det. Gorm on Criminal Intent), break them down mentally, play their game to last minute. There should be NO physical contact, except for the necessary kind (like cuffing and escorting to and from the cell.)
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DAMN! What happened at Abu-Ghraib was humiliation and unproffessional....not torture.

Yes, we should all sit through episodes of what hollywood produces to gain experience with the real world. I'll submit a recommendation letter to my General.

The next time I see a guy get grabbed up, pushed around and choked up, because he has info of placed IED's in a city like Fallujah where other Marines are patrolling, I'll stop that evil and twisted Marine that's "torturing" him and tell him that Detective Gorn from Law and Order would do it better.:roll:
 
GySgt said:
DAMN! What happened at Abu-Ghraib was humiliation and unproffessional....not torture.

Yes, we should all sit through episodes of what hollywood produces to gain experience with the real world. I'll submit a recommendation letter to my General.

The next time I see a guy get grabbed up, pushed around and choked up, because he has info of placed IED's in a city like Fallujah where other Marines are patrolling, I'll stop that evil and twisted Marine that's "torturing" him and tell him that Detective Gorn from Law and Order would do it better.:roll:
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I just love your sarcastic hogwash. It brings a smile to my face. :mrgreen:
 
GySgt said:
13 years 6 months. Currently Active Duty. Trust me, you can trust "my bull." Would you like a summery of record?

Senator McCain is correct, of course. He also knows the difference between torture and interrogation.
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No, I believe what you say about yourself. I picked your post to respond to on this thread because you have military experience, and must have some grasp of the subject being discussed.

I read some of the other posts, and see some silly ideas, in my opinion. One guy said non-scarring pain infliction is okay. I wonder if he knows what manipulating an exposed nerve in a molar can feel like? Some drugs can cause agony. What about electrical stimulation? All of these can be done without leaving scars.

I know someone will say 'Look at what they do to our people.'
You want to slaughter them. Me too. But if we do then we're the same animals.

I think we all know the difference between interrogation and torture.

Picture yourself in Cuba, for some odd reason, maybe on business. You are driving to a meeting in a rural area, and are stopped by a local policeman, with no explanation, cuffed, and taken to a station. The officer who stopped you calls in his boss, the Captain. They talk, then ask you why you are spying on Cuba, and become angry. The first officer comes up behind you, and puts some kind of sack over your head. They demand information. They take you outside and put you in the 100 degree sun, and play deafening Samba music in your ears. They starve you.

Are you being interrogated in this story?
I know we're not at war with Cuba. This is not realistic, just meant to provoke thought.
 
Do you think it is okay to torture prisoners for the sake of gathering information to save lives, to gain strategical advantag, or anything at all?
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The way I Look at it is our troops,our country,our goals are more important than a terrorist's confort.If we have to tie him to a chair and play twenty questions with a ballpene hammer then so be it,if we have to straight jacket him to a chair in a very dark cell, slowly drip water on him and in the background play tape recordings of children crying for thier parents in Arabic or what ever language the terrorist and or insurgeant speaks, then so be it.
THe lives of our troops are more important then the wellbeing of a terrorist/insurgeant,the sercurity of that country and it's citizens are more important than the wellbeing of a few terrorist,and or insurgeants.
The lives of citizes who we know are innocent are worth more than the terrorist's life.
Please do not make this a thread about if the US has or has not tortured any one. I just want to have a discussion about your moral position on the matter.
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I will respect that.
 
Darnit. I didnt see that earlier post. Sorry....
 
tryreading said:
Picture yourself in Cuba, for some odd reason, maybe on business. You are driving to a meeting in a rural area, and are stopped by a local policeman, with no explanation, cuffed, and taken to a station. The officer who stopped you calls in his boss, the Captain. They talk, then ask you why you are spying on Cuba, and become angry. The first officer comes up behind you, and puts some kind of sack over your head. They demand information. They take you outside and put you in the 100 degree sun, and play deafening Samba music in your ears. They starve you.

Are you being interrogated in this story?
I know we're not at war with Cuba. This is not realistic, just meant to provoke thought.
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Interrogated. Unless, I get heat stroke or begin to deteriorate from starvation, it is not torture.

However this implies that people in Iraq are just "grabbed" up. This is not the case. The only way they are "grabbed" up is if they are in the immediate area where definate "enemies" are located. Nobody is interrogated unless there is no doubt or until after negative ID has been discovered. After positive identification of "mistakes", the individual is not only released, but he is taken safely to where he wants to go with armed escort. This is the best way we can do things, where the enemy walks among them.
 
GySgt said:
Interrogated. Unless, I get heat stroke or begin to deteriorate from starvation, it is not torture.

However this implies that people in Iraq are just "grabbed" up. This is not the case. The only way they are "grabbed" up is if they are in the immediate area where definate "enemies" are located. Nobody is interrogated unless there is no doubt or until after negative ID has been discovered. After positive identification of "mistakes", the individual is not only released, but he is taken safely to where he wants to go with armed escort. This is the best way we can do things, where the enemy walks among them.
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As far as your answer, you are a hard man. If somebody is doing those things to me personally, they are torturing me.

But I wasn't talking about Iraq at all, just the subject of torture, specifically. The example really wasn't meant to be realistic.
 
tryreading said:
As far as your answer, you are a hard man. If somebody is doing those things to me personally, they are torturing me.

But I wasn't talking about Iraq at all, just the subject of torture, specifically. The example really wasn't meant to be realistic.
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I kind of knew that. I just jumped at the chance to put something out there, because that's how rumors start.
 
GySgt said:
Interrogated. Unless, I get heat stroke or begin to deteriorate from starvation, it is not torture.

However this implies that people in Iraq are just "grabbed" up. This is not the case. The only way they are "grabbed" up is if they are in the immediate area where definate "enemies" are located. Nobody is interrogated unless there is no doubt or until after negative ID has been discovered. After positive identification of "mistakes", the individual is not only released, but he is taken safely to where he wants to go with armed escort. This is the best way we can do things, where the enemy walks among them.
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I'd be interested in where you get such information?

Everything I've read said there is no doubt that innocents are languishing in U.S./Iraqi jails....without benefit of counsel and without charges being brought against them.
 
Hoot said:
I'd be interested in where you get such information?

Everything I've read said there is no doubt that innocents are languishing in U.S./Iraqi jails....without benefit of counsel and without charges being brought against them.
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Experience. How do you get yours?

What's your definition of innocent? If it's someone that is strongly suspected to be the enemy, but there is no proof, then yes...they are "languishing" in the jails. Ain't war hell?
 
GySgt said:
Interrogated. Unless, I get heat stroke or begin to deteriorate from starvation, it is not torture.

However this implies that people in Iraq are just "grabbed" up. This is not the case. The only way they are "grabbed" up is if they are in the immediate area where definate "enemies" are located. Nobody is interrogated unless there is no doubt or until after negative ID has been discovered. After positive identification of "mistakes", the individual is not only released, but he is taken safely to where he wants to go with armed escort. This is the best way we can do things, where the enemy walks among them.
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Some poor bastard could be at the wrong place at the wrong time and end up being "grabbed up" but was never apart of anything. The enemy uses the civilian population as it's shield to launch attacks against US troops. They will smile and be friends with you during the day, be friendly, treat you well and then at night or when your back is turned they will try to attack and kill you.
 
GySgt said:
Experience. How do you get yours?

What's your definition of innocent? If it's someone that is strongly suspected to be the enemy, but there is no proof, then yes...they are "languishing" in the jails. Ain't war hell?
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My two favorite phrases:

1. Nothing in this world is free.
2. Nobody in this world is innocent.
 
TimmyBoy said:
Some poor bastard could be at the wrong place at the wrong time and end up being "grabbed up" but was never apart of anything. The enemy uses the civilian population as it's shield to launch attacks against US troops. They will smile and be friends with you during the day, be friendly, treat you well and then at night or when your back is turned they will try to attack and kill you.
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Like I said on Post#65

"The only way they are "grabbed" up is if they are in the immediate area where definate "enemies" are located. Nobody is interrogated unless there is no doubt or until after negative ID has been discovered. After positive identification of "mistakes", the individual is not only released, but he is taken safely to where he wants to go with armed escort. This is the best way we can do things, where the enemy walks among them."

Now, of course, there simply has to be some innocent jailed erronously. The alternative is to not have jails and kill them as they stand (wrong), or just let them go so that the majority of "let go" will kill some more Marines and Iraqi civilians. Name one jail in the world, who's prisoners are all without a doubt....guilty.
 
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GySgt said:
Like I said on Post#65

"The only way they are "grabbed" up is if they are in the immediate area where definate "enemies" are located. Nobody is interrogated unless there is no doubt or until after negative ID has been discovered. After positive identification of "mistakes", the individual is not only released, but he is taken safely to where he wants to go with armed escort. This is the best way we can do things, where the enemy walks among them."

Now, of course, there simply has to be some innocent jailed erronously. The alternative is to not have jails and kill them as they stand (wrong), or just let them go so that the majority of "let go" will kill some more Marines and Iraqi civilians. Name one jail in the world, who's prisoners are all without a doubt....guilty.
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Can you name a prisoner in the US who didn't get a trial?
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Can you name a prisoner in the US who didn't get a trial?
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Can you name a prisoner in the US that was grabbed up during a war? Can you name any in any war?
 
GySgt said:
Can you name a prisoner in the US that was grabbed up during a war? Can you name any in any war?
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No. Does being captured in a war negate all rights and make one unworthy of common decency?
 
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