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Top bullfighter gored to death in Spain

There is no doubt that bullfighting is a blood sport, but the idea of the matador hitting a roughly 1 square inch target
on a charging bull, where a miss is almost sure death, is nothing short of amazing.
I will likely never go to a bull fight, but can appreciate the skill necessary for someone to be able to do that.
 
JasperL said:
I'm not arguing they "can't", but am arguing that there is a fundamental difference between fishing and bullfighting. Your position is like arguing there is no difference between euthanizing a dog (which I've had to do) and some person pouring gasoline on it and lighting it on fire. That the dog is dead at the end of both doesn't mean the two acts are comparable in any way.

And other than effectively saying "Nuh uh" you're not making a case, and ignoring the argument I so make...
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sure, there is a fundamental difference, but fishing amounts to torturing for fun. Many claimed this statement was absurd, but failed to actually demonstrate why
 
JasperL said:
LOL, well, you could BE a fisherman, because that's some fisherman level BS there on the weight of the "small mouth" you're catching. 10 pounds is a state record in just about every state and in most places a 5 lb smallmouth is a trophy. My money is on those fish being about 2 pounds, which is darn nice for smallmouth on ultralight gear...
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the largest small mouth ever caught was an ounce shy of 12 pounds.

2 pounds is nice eater size, not really a challenge on lightweight tackle
 
ARealConservative said:
sure, there is a fundamental difference, but fishing amounts to torturing for fun. Many claimed this statement was absurd, but failed to actually demonstrate why
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Right, when I catch a trout/bass/bluegill, play it to a net, remove the barbless hook, and release it to the water unharmed, it's somehow equivalent to jamming spears in the back and shoulders of a bull to bleed it and weaken it then over a period of 15 minutes or so tiring the animal sufficiently that I can then kill it with a sword/knife through the neck, all in front of a cheering audience... :roll:

And you've not actually made an argument why they're similar except to point out that in some cases catching a fish even intending to release it will sometimes kill the fish.
 
JasperL said:
Right, when I catch a trout/bass/bluegill, play it to a net, remove the barbless hook, and release it to the water unharmed, it's somehow equivalent to jamming spears in the back and shoulders of a bull to bleed it and weaken it then over a period of 15 minutes or so tiring the animal sufficiently that I can then kill it with a sword/knife through the neck, all in front of a cheering audience... :roll:

And you've not actually made an argument why they're similar except to point out that in some cases catching a fish even intending to release it will sometimes kill the fish.
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I purposefully detailed the use of lightweight gear – for good reason. I choose to have fun with the fight – but I know full well the longer I make that fish fight, the less likely it will survive and that it is pure torture from the fishes perspective.

and please stop practicing catch and release on bluegill.
 
ARealConservative said:
the largest small mouth ever caught was an ounce shy of 12 pounds.
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Yes, at Dale Hollow, on the TN/KY border. I'm familiar with the lake. So what? In all but TWO states, a 10 lb smallmouth is the state record fish, and in the majority of states, a 10 pounder breaks the record by 2lbs or more. I'd need proof that you've EVER caught even one smallmouth as big as 10 lbs, and that would be (almost guaranteed) your name in the record book for the state in which the fish was caught.

2 pounds is nice eater size, not really a challenge on lightweight tackle
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LOL, that's ridiculous. I don't know what your definition of "lightweight tackle" or "2lbs" is but an actually 2lb smallmouth is plenty of challenge on the lightweight tackle I use. I'm doubting you've actually ever caught a smallmouth, at least never one that lived in a river/stream. That size smallmouth puts up the fight of maybe double that weight for a trout or largemouth bass, so we're talking a 20+ inch rainbow there.

But, sure, if you purposely use gear that is too lightweight for the fish, and have to spend 10, 15 minutes or more to land the fish or risk breaking it off, then sure, that's unsportsmanlike and closer to torture because in those cases you'll almost surely kill the fish even if it's "released" back to the water.
 
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JasperL said:
LOL, that's ridiculous. I don't know what your definition of "lightweight tackle" is but a 2lb smallmouth is plenty of challenge on the lightweight tackle I use. I'm doubting you've actually ever caught a smallmouth
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cookoo
 
ARealConservative said:
cookoo
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LOL, says the guy who supposedly is catching state record smallmouth on "lightweight tackle" on a regular basis. If you're that good, where can I catch your show on TV? :lamo

I catch smallmouth pretty regularly while primarily chasing trout, and a 2 pound fish is a WHOLE lot of fight on a 4 weight fly rod with 3x tippet. And anyone in my circles who claims such a fish is no biggee is the kind of liar that is pretty common with fishermen. What he probably means is the fish that actually weighed less than a pound but that he's rounded up to double the actual weight was a fantastic fight but he managed to land the fish.
 
JasperL said:
LOL, says the guy who supposedly is catching state record smallmouth on "lightweight tackle" on a regular basis. If you're that good, where can I catch your show on TV? :lamo

I catch smallmouth pretty regularly while primarily chasing trout, and a 2 pound fish is a WHOLE lot of fight on a 4 weight fly rod with 3x tippet. And anyone in my circles who claims such a fish is no biggee is the kind of liar that is pretty common with fishermen. What he probably means is the fish that actually weighed less than a pound but that he's rounded up to double the actual weight was a fantastic fight but he managed to land the fish.
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10lb is an obvious exaggeration but you are trying to obfuscate the point because you have to.

using lightweight gear decreases the change of the fish surviving. the only reason to go that route is to increase my enjoyment. It absolutely increases the torture for the fish.

unless i'm in the quetico, I'm using barbed hooks too!

I've wasted enough time on your nonsense. I have shown plenty of similarities between these two "sports"
 
_Sal said:
bulls can't become extinct, they aren't extinct in other countries that do not have bullfighting

no I have never been to an abattoir, I prefer other types of entertainment

check out Temple Grandin (Grandin is a prominent and widely cited proponent for the humane treatment of livestock for slaughter.) her slaughter techniques are revolutionary you might find her interesting
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I have watched her videos - the slaughter techniques are humane. She has done great work.
 
ARealConservative said:
it is you that needs to reread.

the only reason they aren't extinct, is we find value in their survival.

without humans, they would be extinct within 5 years.

so asking how I'm going to get beef shows you failed to comprehend. If I want to get beef, that means I find value.

read more closely in the future
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:roll:

then your argument was ridiculous to begin with
 
Scrabaholic said:
I have watched her videos - the slaughter techniques are humane. She has done great work.
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she has done amazing work

it almost alleviates my guilt of my love for beef

we do not have to be inhumane to enjoy the bounty of the universe but some are full of greed and make it difficult to understand what the right choice is

for instance chickens caged for their whole little life, never moving so their breast are huge...it's disgusting and yet some say humans are worth more than animals

I say no

we are only worth more when we behave in a better more humane way

we are no better than our behaviour
 
_Sal said:
:roll:

then your argument was ridiculous to begin with
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I'm not sure you have the mental capacity to understand peoples arguments. you sure you are understanding it now?
 
_Sal said:
oh yes, I understand completely

completely
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so you now understand if we stopped caring about beef, dairy, and bullfighting, bulls would become extinct?
 
A woman, while touring a small South American country was shown a bullfight. The guide told her, "This is our number one sport." The horrified woman said, "Isn't that revolting?" "No," the guide replied, "that's our number two sport."
 
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