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Top bullfighter gored to death in Spain

We're not talking about other countries, we're talking about Spain where the special breed (like Miura) is bred specifically for the purpose this is all about. If that breeding and maintenance is abandoned they WILL become extinct.
they you should have been more specific, a bull is not just a bull

who said anything about my finding it entertaining?
Get a grip, eh wot?
you ask specifically about visiting abbatoirs...why the hell would I?

Known about her for decades.

So?
I thought you might find her interesting but suddenly you have turned into a dick so I'm done

have an excellent evening
 
why would I get beef? I explained how in a world without a value for beef, they would become extinct. you do realize in that hypothetical, I would have no need for beef, or dairy.

how would such a bull survive?

that is not what you said at all

read your quote in response to mine
 
that is not what you said at all

read your quote in response to mine

it is you that needs to reread.

the only reason they aren't extinct, is we find value in their survival.

without humans, they would be extinct within 5 years.


so asking how I'm going to get beef shows you failed to comprehend. If I want to get beef, that means I find value.

read more closely in the future
 
they you should have been more specific, a bull is not just a bull
This whole issue is about bullfighting in Spain and you want it to be more specific?

you ask specifically about visiting abbatoirs...why the hell would I?
Yeah, it became apparent that that one went straight over your head and will apparently keep doing so.
I thought you might find her interesting but suddenly you have turned into a dick so I'm done
If it's any comfort, I'm by now having reservations about you as well. If you want to throw a hissy fit over anyone providing the education that might somewhat draw you away from mistaking your ignorance-based opinion for actual fact, go right ahead. It's not my loss.
have an excellent evening
Oh, I will, no worries.

Same to you.
 
And where did I say that? I responded to someone posting countries with a bad historical human rights record. All I did was state that in the Franco times human rights were seriously violated in the Franco era Spain.

Since when does stating that Franco has a bad human rights record say anything about today's record? I was not aware Franco was still in power in Spain?
Well, okay then. That's cleared up. We can overlook that you used the present tense seeing how that post is now outdated.
 
Personally I dont have a issue with bullfighting , same with Fox hunts. I do have a problem with knee jerk bans that do away with centuries of tradition.

This generation sure is a judgmental preachy bunch for some reason. Those who want to ban Bullfighting are either Vegans or lack perspective

For expample, anyone who feels sorry for those Bulls should take a trip to a large slaughter house in the US.

That will add perspective.
yeah, one can see where that suggestion of education gets one to a few posts later.:mrgreen:
 
Be that or don't be, I could care less.

Seeing how you clearly know not of what you speak wrt Spain, you're not worthy of any more of my time. You do not represent this thread BTW (since you mention the whole) so dismissing you is simply dismissing you.

Now have a good one.

If you want to take my words out of context fine, but don't piss in everyone else's ears and tell them its raining.
See, this is the kind of **** private messages are for...
 
Nope, doesn't work that way.

Traumatized as he now is by the whole experience, there's nothing left but to slaughter him. Because bulls traumatized like that are now a perpetual time bomb. He'll now kill anything that moves.

Nah, he could be put to pasture as a seed bull. That happens.
Those bulls go into the arena wild animals. They'll charge and try to kill because that's their nature- without that instinct, the corrida can't happen. They can be safely handled in groups and steers are used to give them the feeling of herd security and make them docile but when they find themselves alone they'll try to kill anything they see as a threat. That's why people get gored in the running in Pamplona- a bull gets behind the others and he no longer follows the herd, he attacks.
 
I love fishing, but you are a fool if you think the fish is enjoying the experience.

Who said anything about "enjoying" the experience?

it's really fun to use superlight weight line and pole. a 10 pound small mouth on ultra light gear is a blast - again - just for me. for the fish it is sheer torture

LOL, well, you could BE a fisherman, because that's some fisherman level BS there on the weight of the "small mouth" you're catching. 10 pounds is a state record in just about every state and in most places a 5 lb smallmouth is a trophy. My money is on those fish being about 2 pounds, which is darn nice for smallmouth on ultralight gear...

But...."pole". It's not a word any actual fisherman uses in my part of the world, but I can't say in yours. So we'll let that slide.. ;)

the similarity we have here is we decided we are superior. these roles can't play in reverse.

charismatic megafauna is the explanation for why people aren't disgusted by what I do.

There is some of that, no doubt, but the problem is the purpose of the whole thing is to first torture, bloody, weaken, then kill the bull. It's not an unfortunate side effect that actual sportsmen attempt to avoid, but the point of the spectacle.
 
Nah, he could be put to pasture as a seed bull. That happens.
Those bulls go into the arena wild animals. They'll charge and try to kill because that's their nature- without that instinct, the corrida can't happen. They can be safely handled in groups and steers are used to give them the feeling of herd security and make them docile but when they find themselves alone they'll try to kill anything they see as a threat. That's why people get gored in the running in Pamplona- a bull gets behind the others and he no longer follows the herd, he attacks.
True enough. Yet as I pointed out elsewhere, the indulto (pardon) happens rarely and when it does, on account of the bravery of the bull and supported by both the audience and the torero. Somewhat difficult for the latter when he's already in the Spanish equivalent of Valhalla. Bulls that have killed never get pardoned. At least I've never heard of such a case in all the time I've been here.

Popular wisdom (if one can call it that) also has it that a bull that's killed the matador is tainted in the manner described.

And there's a difference between the bulls in Pamplona and those in the corrida. The latter have been goaded pretty awfully long before they come out into the sunlight. Without any injuries as yet inflicted.

I'm no particular fan of the whole "sport". Best experience I've had though is being invited to ride thru them on horseback in Seville province. Accompanied by the vaqueros of course.

Miura bulls, considered to be the fiercest of the lot. Seeing how I appeared big and to have four legs they thought I was one of 'em. Docile as puppies they otherwise virtually ignored me.

Fell in love with them on the spot. :)
 
Well, okay then. That's cleared up. We can overlook that you used the present tense seeing how that post is now outdated.

No, I clearly wrote "was ruled by Franco" and that it "was a horrendous regime for 40 years." both clearly using the past tense.
 
True enough. Yet as I pointed out elsewhere, the indulto (pardon) happens rarely and when it does, on account of the bravery of the bull and supported by both the audience and the torero. Somewhat difficult for the latter when he's already in the Spanish equivalent of Valhalla. Bulls that have killed never get pardoned. At least I've never heard of such a case in all the time I've been here.

Popular wisdom (if one can call it that) also has it that a bull that's killed the matador is tainted in the manner described.

And there's a difference between the bulls in Pamplona and those in the corrida. The latter have been goaded pretty awfully long before they come out into the sunlight. Without any injuries as yet inflicted.

I'm no particular fan of the whole "sport". Best experience I've had though is being invited to ride thru them on horseback in Seville province. Accompanied by the vaqueros of course.

Miura bulls, considered to be the fiercest of the lot. Seeing how I appeared big and to have four legs they thought I was one of 'em. Docile as puppies they otherwise virtually ignored me.

Fell in love with them on the spot. :)

I envy you the experience. I've heard of the reputation of the Miuras.
My understanding is that the bulls who run through the streets of Pamplona are the same who are fought in the corrida. The tradition goes back to when the bulls arrived on the train and were driven through the streets to the stables at the arena. Drunken locals and tourists would run before them, wrecking the principle that the bull first saw an unmounted man when he entered the arena and making the spectacle that little bit more dangerous in Pamplona than elsewhere.
 
These guys have real balls. Not those pretty boys in Spain.


 
No, I clearly wrote "was ruled by Franco" and that it "was a horrendous regime for 40 years." both clearly using the past tense.
Yes, sorry, my bad. I was getting you mixed up with Abba-whatever.
 
These guys have real balls. Not those pretty boys in Spain.




That is the most insane thing I have seen outside of JACKASS where they were all 4 on a teeter-totter with a bull running around.

anyone remember that? Or have a video of it?
 
I envy you the experience. I've heard of the reputation of the Miuras.
My understanding is that the bulls who run through the streets of Pamplona are the same who are fought in the corrida. The tradition goes back to when the bulls arrived on the train and were driven through the streets to the stables at the arena. Drunken locals and tourists would run before them, wrecking the principle that the bull first saw an unmounted man when he entered the arena and making the spectacle that little bit more dangerous in Pamplona than elsewhere.
That's one version but all the narratives are pretty similar. All to do with the fiesta of San Fermin. The arena can indeed not be reached by the bulls thru any other means than being driven, the narrow streets precluding any form of conventional transport. Hence the term encierro (constricted) for the run. It's incidentally just about 6 bulls, the rest of the crowd being comprised of oxen. The very same used in olden times to guide and calm them on the long trek from the South.
 
Yes, sorry, my bad. I was getting you mixed up with Abba-whatever.

No problemo, to make mistakes is human isn't it, I should know, I am "extra human" when it comes to making mistakes (especially spelling, even in Dutch LOL).

People do not practice writing enough anymore, typing yes, but writing is a dying art. And even typing is risky, one misplaced finger and you can get the word you wanted to type really wrong.
 
There is some of that, no doubt, but the problem is the purpose of the whole thing is to first torture, bloody, weaken, then kill the bull. It's not an unfortunate side effect that actual sportsmen attempt to avoid, but the point of the spectacle.

not just some of that. they are very similar for this reason. we decided animals value is in feeding and entertaining us.

it would be hypocritical for me to continue to fish, but say that culture can't exploit a bull for similar entertainment value
 
not just some of that. they are very similar for this reason. we decided animals value is in feeding and entertaining us.

it would be hypocritical for me to continue to fish, but say that culture can't exploit a bull for similar entertainment value

I'm not arguing they "can't", but am arguing that there is a fundamental difference between fishing and bullfighting. Your position is like arguing there is no difference between euthanizing a dog (which I've had to do) and some person pouring gasoline on it and lighting it on fire. That the dog is dead at the end of both doesn't mean the two acts are comparable in any way.

And other than effectively saying "Nuh uh" you're not making a case, and ignoring the argument I so make...
 
I don't wish harm on anyone, but may be, just may be, someone could just fathom how the bull feels when being teased and gored and panicked. What a cruel senseless cowardly show. Real men don't need to show they have balls by torturing an innocent animal. And please, don't call it sport.
 
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