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To White Apologists/Liberals, Can you explain why Asians do so well?

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I hear all these arguments that the legal system is racist, but I can't help but believe that this is mostly confirmation bias at this point.

If the premise is that racism in America is alive and well, then the nation should be divided into white people and non-white people. By the liberal logic, Asians, as non-whites, need huge benefits from affirmative action to overcome the systemic racism in the system, but this is clearly not the case.

How, then, do you explain why Asian people are so successful? Asians experienced a very bloody and oppressed history and were also heavily discriminated against in this country. Additionally, there was also a language barrier when it came to Asian immigrants. Why then are institutions such as college admissions so racist AGAINST Asians instead of FOR Asians? If the goal of liberals is to give those without white privilege a leg up to "even the playing field", then why are these benefits not extended to all non-white people? How come Asians were oppressed historically and still today? How come an Asian has to score 500 points higher on the SAT's to have the same chance of getting into an elite college as an African American?

How come Marian Barry, a black DC mayor, is allowed to come out and say DC needs to get rid of "dirty Asian businesses" so that African Americans can thrive and then get reelected multiple times? Why is this racism allowed? If anything, white liberals should be fighting for the rights of Asians--you have colleges holding Asians to HIGHER standards than any other race. How is this not TRUE objectively systematic racism?

It's a huge double standard, and a lot of times the argument gets boiled down to "You're not a minority; you can't understand." Well, I am a minority, and I have walked the life of one, but instead of seeing racism wherever I go, I see people who treat me with respect as long as I treat them with dignity as well.

So white apologists, please tell me why it is the system that is rigged against minorities when the most successful demographic in America is a minority! From my standpoint, the true racists are those who spout accusations of racism at every corner.
 
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ocean515

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I hear all these arguments that the legal system is racist, but I can't help but believe that this is mostly confirmation bias at this point.

If the premise is that racism in America is alive and well, then the nation should be divided into white people and non-white people.

How, then, do you explain why Asian people are so successful? Asians experienced a very bloody and oppressed history and were also heavily discriminated against in this country. Additionally, there was also a language barrier when it came to Asian immigrants. Why then are institutions such as college admissions so racist AGAINST Asians instead of FOR Asians? If the goal of liberals is to give those without white privilege a leg up to "even the playing field", then why are these benefits not extended to all non-white people? How come Asians were oppressed historically and still today? How come an Asian has to score 500 points higher on the SAT's to have the same chance of getting into an elite college as an African American?

How come Marian Barry, a black DC mayor, is allowed to come out and say DC needs to get rid of "dirty Asian businesses" so that African Americans can thrive and then get reelected multiple times? Why is this racism allowed? If anything, white liberals should be fighting for the rights of Asians--you have colleges holding Asians to HIGHER standards than any other race. How is this not TRUE objectively systematic racism?

It's a huge double standard, and a lot of times the argument gets boiled down to "You're not a minority; you can't understand." Well, I am a minority, and I have walked the life of one, but instead of seeing racism wherever I go, I see people who treat me with respect as long as I treat them with dignity as well.

So white apologists, please tell me why it is the system that is rigged against minorities when the most successful demographic in America is a minority! From my standpoint, the true racists are those who spout accusations of racism at every corner.
The answer is sadly, quite obvious.
 
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The answer is sadly, quite obvious.
I believe so too, but I am trying to understand how the other side rationalizes Asians. I want to see consistently applied logic explaining this phenomenon because I cannot personally see it.
 

ocean515

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I believe so too, but I am trying to understand how the other side rationalizes Asians. I want to see consistently applied logic explaining this phenomenon because I cannot personally see it.
I have to admit, it's a complete head scratcher to me. A very close friend and associate came from Thailand years ago. He could not speak English when he got here. He is very successful today.

How is that possible, considering the narrative from so many?
 

WCH

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I have to admit, it's a complete head scratcher to me. A very close friend and associate came from Thailand years ago. He could not speak English when he got here. He is very successful today.

How is that possible, considering the narrative from so many?
Does he own spa/nails businesses. If so, the women he employees are indentured servants.:roll:
 

ocean515

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Does he own spa/nails businesses. If so, the women he employees are indentured servants.
No, he owns a telecommunications company that among other things, supplies high speed fiber optic connections between the west coast of the US and Thailand/Indonesia.

No servants, just a hundred or so well paid employees. Imagine, when he got here, he shared an apartment with 6 other people.

Gee, no opportunities in the US for minorities, right?
 

WCH

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No, he owns a telecommunications company that among other things, supplies high speed fiber optic connections between the west coast of the US and Thailand/Indonesia.

No servants, just a hundred or so well paid employees. Imagine, when he got here, he shared an apartment with 6 other people.

Gee, no opportunities in the US for minorities, right?
I was sort of kidding but, I know plenty in that business who have done very well. [and the ladies are pretty hot]

Maybe you need to be from another country to be a successful entrepreneur in this one? Who knows.
 

OscarB63

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you constantly see complaints about how the reason blacks under-perform on standardized tests is because the tests are "culturally biased" against them. So why do the asians do so much better? their "culture" is as much, if not more, different from "white culture" as is "black culture". If "cultural bias" of the test is the reason for poor performance.....logically, asians would do just as poorly as blacks. but that is not the case. So...what is the difference between blacks and asians that allows one to do well and the other not?
 

ocean515

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I was sort of kidding but, I know plenty in that business who have done very well. [and the ladies are pretty hot]

Maybe you need to be from another country to be a successful entrepreneur in this one? Who knows.
Unfortunately, there is much truth to what you wrote. Are they untainted by the sound bites?

I think, in a way, they are much like the founders of this country. They are the exceptional ones, who risked all to get here.

Unfortunately, many of those who have been here for generations have had that part of their DNA removed from them.
 
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you constantly see complaints about how the reason blacks under-perform on standardized tests is because the tests are "culturally biased" against them. So why do the asians do so much better? their "culture" is as much, if not more, different from "white culture" as is "black culture". If "cultural bias" of the test is the reason for poor performance.....logically, asians would do just as poorly as blacks. but that is not the case. So...what is the difference between blacks and asians that allows one to do well and the other not?
republican obstructionism would be my best guess
 

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I hear all these arguments that the legal system is racist, but I can't help but believe that this is mostly confirmation bias at this point.

If the premise is that racism in America is alive and well, then the nation should be divided into white people and non-white people.
The way you framed this discussion is actually indicative of another cognative bias known as an illusory correlation.

You're wrongly assuming that the simple fact that all minority groups are different in some way from the majority group is, in and of itself, sufficent evidence that the majority group must harbor the same feelings toward all minorities.

Such blanket feelings aren't logically necessary.

Racisim, by definition, can imply that one's own race is superior to others and/or a hatred or intolerance of other races.

But it can also, equally, imply that one's own race is superior to another specific race and/or a hatred or intolerance of that specific race.

Clearly the claim here (ostensibly made by the "white appologisits/liberals) is that the White "race" harbors a hatred or intolerance of, or a belief that it is superior to, the Black "race" specifically.

Neither Asians, Hispanics, Native American people, nor any other race need necessarially be considered for that claim to be legitimate (which doesn't necessarially make it true, but I'm arguing about the claim here, not the conclusion).

Your whole argument is baseless because it's founded on a fallacy.
 
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The way you framed this discussion is actually indicative of another cognative bias known as an illusory correlation.

You're wrongly assuming that the simple fact that all minority groups are different in some way from the majority group is, in and of itself, sufficent evidence that the majority group must harbor the same feelings toward all minorities.

Such blanket feelings aren't logically necessary.

Racisim, by definition, can imply that one's own race is superior to others and/or a hatred or intolerance of other races.

But it can also, equally, imply that one's own race is superior to another specific race and/or a hatred or intolerance of that specific race.

Clearly the claim here (ostensibly made by the "white appologisits/liberals) is that the white "race" harbors a hatred or intolerance of, or a belief that it is superior to, the black "race" specifically.

Your whole argument is baseless because it's founded on a fallacy.

I am asking a simple question. Why do Asians succeed despite not having this notion of "white privilege"?
 

OscarB63

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I am asking a simple question. Why do Asians succeed despite not having this notion of "white privilege"?
they don't constantly view themselves as victims? Instead of blaming their shortcomings on someone else, they work harder at overcoming them?
 

soot

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I am asking a simple question. Why do Asians succeed despite not having this notion of "white privilege"?
Because "white privilege" is a misnomer.

Whites aren't privileged so much as Blacks are disadvantaged.

But "white privilege" is a much catchier catchphrase when the goal is to try to eliminate the disadvantaged condition under which Blacks labor through the strategic application of white guilt.

It goes back to what I said about Whites harboring racist feelings specifically toward Blacks.

Whites and Asians are starting at the same spot on the playing field. Blacks are being penalized 10 years (as a result of racisim) at the starting gun.
 

WCH

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Because "white privilege" is a misnomer.

Whites aren't privileged so much as Blacks are disadvantaged.

But "white privilege" is a much catchier catchphrase when the goal is to try to eliminate the disadvantaged condition under which Blacks labor through the strategic application of white guilt.

It goes back to what I said about Whites harboring racist feelings specifically toward Blacks.

Whites and Asians are starting at the same spot on the playing field. Blacks are being penalized 10 years (as a result of racisim) at the starting gun.
But why is that? (if true) Would it be the policies of the political race merchants?
 

OscarB63

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Because "white privilege" is a misnomer.

Whites aren't privileged so much as Blacks are disadvantaged.
and just how are they disadvantaged? As a kid I lived in the same neighborhood as blacks, went to HS with blacks. they had the same "opportunities" as did I. the main "disadvantage" blacks have today is the victim mentality that is holding them back



Whites and Asians are starting at the same spot on the playing field. Blacks are being penalized 10 years (as a result of racisim) at the starting gun.
bull****.....
 

ocean515

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Because "white privilege" is a misnomer.

Whites aren't privileged so much as Blacks are disadvantaged.

But "white privilege" is a much catchier catchphrase when the goal is to try to eliminate the disadvantaged condition under which Blacks labor through the strategic application of white guilt.

It goes back to what I said about Whites harboring racist feelings specifically toward Blacks.

Whites and Asians are starting at the same spot on the playing field. Blacks are being penalized 10 years (as a result of racisim) at the starting gun.
10 years? Are you sure it's not 9, or maybe by chance, 11 1/2 years?

I think you need to get back to your psychology books and study a bit more. It seems to me you're drawing conclusions that have no established foundation.

As a result, it would appear your whole argument is baseless because it is founded on a fallacy.
 

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Lets be clear...its not ALL blacks. Black immigrants also manage to find work and become successful. So lets use the accepted PC terminology...its "African Americans" that are disadvantaged and the reason is obvious.

Back in the 60's, Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights with one intent. To keep those people voting democrat for the next 200 years (OK...he didnt call them 'those people'...he called them 'niggers'). And by golly...the democrat party has followed through, treating them like a trusted voting bloc ever since. Oh...make no mistake...there are racists on both sides and in all races just as many democrats and (this may come as a shocker) republicans are also caring, compassionate, and well meaning. But the policies of the democrats ever since have fed their community disfunction. Their disadvantage? Well earned.

Success requires hard work. Excuses and giveaway programs? Hell...those are EASY. Hey...at least they named a few streets for MLK.
 
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Because "white privilege" is a misnomer.

Whites aren't privileged so much as Blacks are disadvantaged.

But "white privilege" is a much catchier catchphrase when the goal is to try to eliminate the disadvantaged condition under which Blacks labor through the strategic application of white guilt.

It goes back to what I said about Whites harboring racist feelings specifically toward Blacks.

Whites and Asians are starting at the same spot on the playing field. Blacks are being penalized 10 years (as a result of racisim) at the starting gun.

How do whites and Asians start on the same spot in the playing field again? On what basis are you speaking from? As an Asian who grew up in a 65%+ African American community, I felt like I was on the same footing as many of my African American peers. How did the institutions in place "give me 10 years (wtf does that even mean)"?
 

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and just how are they disadvantaged? As a kid I lived in the same neighborhood as blacks, went to HS with blacks. they had the same "opportunities" as did I. the main "disadvantage" blacks have today is the victim mentality that is holding them back
Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome

(I'm not kidding, it's a real claim, Google it.)

Essentially it posits that Blacks think and behave differently than Whites who came up in similar socio-economic circumstances because Blacks, as a result of their slave experience, are culturally different than Whites.

I guess it makes enough sense when you consider that while no Black born today (obviously) ever lived as a slave Blacks born today are only a handful of generations removed from ancestors who did, and that in some cases, where nobody in their lineage has been able to break away from that oppressed mentality, today's Blacks are still being inculcated and acculturated with the same kinds of ideas that their ancestors addapted while living as slaves.

Clearly it doesn't apply to all Blacks, but then again nobody is claiming that it does.
 

Paschendale

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...

Because they're often not trapped in systemic poverty like blacks and Latinos?
 

soot

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It seems to me you're drawing conclusions that have no established foundation.
Not a conclusion.

A randomly chosen example.

You wanna call it 9 or 11 1/2 that's perfectly fine with me.

So long as we acknowledge that it exists.
 
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