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To Chip or Not to Chip, that is the Question

Logophile

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Analysis: Money no object as governments race to build chip arsenals
By Douglas Busvine, Mathieu Rosemain
6 MIN READ
Governments in the United States, the European Union and Japan are contemplating spending tens of billions of dollars on cutting-edge “fabs,” or chip fabrication plants, as unease grows that more than two-thirds of advanced computing chips are manufactured in Taiwan. Earlier this week, a top U.S. military commander told U.S. lawmakers that a Chinese takeover of the island was the military’s foremost concern in the Pacific.

(Reuters) - Governments around the world are subsidizing the construction of semiconductor factories as a chip shortage hobbles the auto and electronics industries and highlights the world’s singular dependence on Taiwan for vital supplies.
The need for chip plants outside Asia has helped prompt Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC) and Samsung Electronics Co Ltd - the only two chip contract manufacturers capable of making the most advanced computing chips - to draw up plans for new factories in the United States and vie for what could be $30 billion or more in U.S. subsidies.
And Intel Corp, another of the “Big Three” which also makes cutting edge chips, dramatically changed the playing field on Tuesday when it disclosed plans to throw open its factory doors to outside customers and build a new factory in Europe in addition to two new ones in the United States.
The net result could be a government-backed restructuring of the semiconductor industry after decades in which American and European chip firms outsourced their manufacturing to Taiwan and Korea in the name of efficiency and delivering ever cheap computing power to billions of people.
“We’re in a situation now where every country is going to want to build their own fab,” Dan Hutcheson, chief executive officer of VLSI Research, told Reuters. “We’re going from this global interconnectedness to vertical silos everywhere.”

Lawmakers in the United States, meanwhile, are preparing to authorize $30 billion or more for chip investments via an existing Pentagon funding bill and a clutch of new measures being championed by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
Local officials, as well as the companies, are already scrambling for the bounty. Intel this week committed to Arizona, which has a generous state tax-abatement program as well as an established chip-making ecosystem, and analysts expect it to be a big recipient of the federal funds. TSMC has also agreed to build a $12 billion fab in Arizona, partly at the behest of the Trump Administration. Samsung, for its part, is negotiating a second factory in Austin, Texas.

First of all, it's important to point out that we have a military commander worried about a Chinese takeover of Taiwan, as if it's a foregone conclusion that the world would just sit back and do nothing. That may be possible, but it doesn't speak well for the free world, never mind a commander that thinks that the US president would just sit on his thumbs.

Secondly, notice where all the fed money is going to be parked?? That's right. In states that favor business with either a tax-abatement program or a low tax incentive.

Personally, I think - regardless of the 80's risk - it's important to bring this industry home. Regardless of the irony, Bravo, Biden. And Bravo low taxes. Thanks!!
 
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We're already plowing $20B+ in advanced chip plants here in the US and can ramp-up from there, if needed. I don't see any problem.
 
China should take over Taiwan. It has always belonged to China.
 
It does seem stupid that the entire world relies on so few manufacturers to supply something as crucial as chips but I'm not sure governments should be involved.
I'm firmly on the fence here though.
 
China should take over Taiwan. It has always belonged to China.

Do the people of Taiwan want to be Chinese?
If not then we should defend their right to remain a soveriegn nation.
 
Do the people of Taiwan want to be Chinese?
If not then we should defend their right to remain a soveriegn nation.
do the people of Texas want out? By your reasoning, the South fought for their rights during the Civil War. Shouldn't the Basque people have their own nation? Shouldn't eastern Ukraine be allowed to join Russia. And wasn't Russia in the right to annex the Crimea because it's mostly Russian? And the Kurds become independent on their own land in Turkey and Iraq? Should Northern Ireland be independent?
China has historically owned Taiwan. Chinese territory.
 
that all you got? no reasons..... Taiwan belongs to China. So does Hong Kong.
No land belongs to anyone unless they take it. If others say "No" than there is a fight. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. Acting like the Chinese have the right to attack neighboring countries because they "owned" them at one point is a poor point of view IMO.

Case in Point: The Romans once controlled most of Europe, the Mongols controlled China and Russia and Central Asia, the British owned India. Are we to give these countries back to their former masters? No.
 
do the people of Texas want out? By your reasoning, the South fought for their rights during the Civil War. Shouldn't the Basque people have their own nation? Shouldn't eastern Ukraine be allowed to join Russia. And wasn't Russia in the right to annex the Crimea because it's mostly Russian? And the Kurds become independent on their own land in Turkey and Iraq? Should Northern Ireland be independent?
China has historically owned Taiwan. Chinese territory.
Hitler would agree. That is how the Third Reich took Austria, part of Czechoslovakia and Poland. Didn't appease him in the slightest.
 
"... a top U.S. military commander told U.S. lawmakers that a Chinese takeover of the island was the military’s foremost concern in the Pacific."


^ US militarism will do nothing effective about the alleged human rights abuses (alleged genocide) in China.
 
No land belongs to anyone unless they take it. If others say "No" than there is a fight. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. Acting like the Chinese have the right to attack neighboring countries because they "owned" them at one point is a poor point of view IMO.

Case in Point: The Romans once controlled most of Europe, the Mongols controlled China and Russia and Central Asia, the British owned India. Are we to give these countries back to their former masters? No.
Those were occupiers. Both the in this instance are Chinese. Taiwan is Chinese. China has an historical right to the island. and we won't do shit if the Chinese take it back.
 
Hitler would agree. That is how the Third Reich took Austria, part of Czechoslovakia and Poland. Didn't appease him in the slightest.
Godwin's Law; the first to mention Hitler in an online discussion loses. that would be you. BTW; Hitler was correct to annex German speaking areas into the Reich. Even the British agreed, so long as he stopped there. he just went beyond that.

Now, should the Chinese leave Tibet. Of course they should. Tibet isn't part of China and the Tibetan's aren't ethnically Chinese. They have a long and storied culture of their own.
 
Godwin's Law; the first to mention Hitler in an online discussion loses. that would be you. BTW; Hitler was correct to annex German speaking areas into the Reich. Even the British agreed, so long as he stopped there. he just went beyond that.

Now, should the Chinese leave Tibet. Of course they should. Tibet isn't part of China and the Tibetan's aren't ethnically Chinese. They have a long and storied culture of their own.
[/QUOTE]
In historical context this is the exact same situation. The people of Taiwan want nothing to do with the Chinese government.

if you think Hitler was right to take over countries because they spoke similar languages, that is your prerogative. Bringing up historical examples does not negate an argument. If I called you a nazi, maybe.

BTW they’re not leaving Tibet and they are probably going to end up taking over SE Asia as their population ages and they need more bodies for their factories.
 
China should take over Taiwan. It has always belonged to China.


No diff than Hong Kong. I don't like it. At all. But China sees the long-term big picture. They'll wait 100+ yrs no problem. Maybe 200. They've been "taken over" a number of times. Still, here they are. The US has had more military confrontation, 5, with China than any other nation. Whether Imperial, Communist, Mixed Communist govt Capitalist-Socialist market economy, democracy (even if only one party, really) or what. They will still be China.
 
No diff than Hong Kong. I don't like it. At all. But China sees the long-term big picture. They'll wait 100+ yrs no problem. Maybe 200. They've been "taken over" a number of times. Still, here they are. The US has had more military confrontation, 5, with China than any other nation. Whether Imperial, Communist, Mixed Communist govt Capitalist-Socialist market economy, democracy (even if only one party, really) or what. They will still be China.
As far as I recall, Hong Kong was under a lease agreement with the British government. This is not the same.
 
Analysis: Money no object as governments race to build chip arsenals
By Douglas Busvine, Mathieu Rosemain
6 MIN READ
Governments in the United States, the European Union and Japan are contemplating spending tens of billions of dollars on cutting-edge “fabs,” or chip fabrication plants, as unease grows that more than two-thirds of advanced computing chips are manufactured in Taiwan. Earlier this week, a top U.S. military commander told U.S. lawmakers that a Chinese takeover of the island was the military’s foremost concern in the Pacific.

(Reuters) - Governments around the world are subsidizing the construction of semiconductor factories as a chip shortage hobbles the auto and electronics industries and highlights the world’s singular dependence on Taiwan for vital supplies.
The need for chip plants outside Asia has helped prompt Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC) and Samsung Electronics Co Ltd - the only two chip contract manufacturers capable of making the most advanced computing chips - to draw up plans for new factories in the United States and vie for what could be $30 billion or more in U.S. subsidies.
And Intel Corp, another of the “Big Three” which also makes cutting edge chips, dramatically changed the playing field on Tuesday when it disclosed plans to throw open its factory doors to outside customers and build a new factory in Europe in addition to two new ones in the United States.
The net result could be a government-backed restructuring of the semiconductor industry after decades in which American and European chip firms outsourced their manufacturing to Taiwan and Korea in the name of efficiency and delivering ever cheap computing power to billions of people.
“We’re in a situation now where every country is going to want to build their own fab,” Dan Hutcheson, chief executive officer of VLSI Research, told Reuters. “We’re going from this global interconnectedness to vertical silos everywhere.”

Lawmakers in the United States, meanwhile, are preparing to authorize $30 billion or more for chip investments via an existing Pentagon funding bill and a clutch of new measures being championed by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
Local officials, as well as the companies, are already scrambling for the bounty. Intel this week committed to Arizona, which has a generous state tax-abatement program as well as an established chip-making ecosystem, and analysts expect it to be a big recipient of the federal funds. TSMC has also agreed to build a $12 billion fab in Arizona, partly at the behest of the Trump Administration. Samsung, for its part, is negotiating a second factory in Austin, Texas.

First of all, it's important to point out that we have a military commander worried about a Chinese takeover of Taiwan, as if it's a foregone conclusion that the world would just sit back and do nothing. That may be possible, but it doesn't speak well for the free world, never mind a commander that thinks that the US president would just sit on his thumbs.

Secondly, notice where all the fed money is going to be parked?? That's right. In states that favor business with either a tax-abatement program or a low tax incentive.

Personally, I think - regardless of the 80's risk - it's important to bring this industry home. Regardless of the irony, Bravo, Biden. And Bravo low taxes. Thanks!!

Hmm... more special tax (and public subsidy?) treatment for “special” business interests. I am shocked. ;)
 
China should take over Taiwan. It has always belonged to China.

The Taiwanese have a thing or two to say about that.
 
Hmm... more special tax (and public subsidy?) treatment for “special” business interests. I am shocked. ;)

We need the fabs. No ifs ands or buts. I hate the special treatment but we need those fabs here ASAP. The government has their own small scale fabs that can do one offs and limited run small batches, but for military equipment and smart munitions we need to be able manufacture chips on an industrial scale especially as we put chips and micro sensor arrays into smaller more widely used munitions.
 
that all you got? no reasons..... Taiwan belongs to China. So does Hong Kong.

Taiwan is an independent sovereign nation and has been such since 1949.
 
We need the fabs. No ifs ands or buts. I hate the special treatment but we need those fabs here ASAP. The government has their own small scale fabs that can do one offs and limited run small batches, but for military equipment and smart munitions we need to be able manufacture chips on an industrial scale especially as we put chips and micro sensor arrays into smaller more widely used munitions.

That “need” is true for many goods/services, yet needs and wants are taxed equally. Should we offer tax reductions to all DoD (and other government?) contractors and/or suppliers of “needed”goods?
 
Hmm... more special tax (and public subsidy?) treatment for “special” business interests. I am shocked. ;)
And yet these businesses - given federal subsidies - are headed straight toward low or no tax-incentive states like Arizona and Texas. Thanks!!
 
That “need” is true for many goods/services, yet needs and wants are taxed equally. Should we offer tax reductions to all DoD (and other government?) contractors and/or suppliers of “needed”goods?

It's not a want its a need. Whether we like it or not. We should not have policies in place that offshore our manufacturing in the first place. That said getting the fabs back is a good thing. Now we need to get as much manufacturing back as we can.
 
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