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Titus 1:12

Arlette said:
Proverbs 3:5-6
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Shoot! Now I'm going have to break out my Bible.

Eta: Ok, but trust doesn't mean not to question. Even Jesus questioned God in the Garden of Gestheme (?). But ultimately he trusted Him.
 
Arlette said:
Don't lean on your own understanding...
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The list is long on those who doubted God.

Biblical Characters Who Doubted God -

Troubles may cause us to doubt in God. When everything goes well with you, you will keep on testing God as you have nothing to worry about. However, we get challenged to believe in God at one time when we face difficult situations which we do not know how to solve. There are a number … Continue...
brockwaychurch.com
 
Overitall said:
The list is long on those who doubted God.

Biblical Characters Who Doubted God -

Troubles may cause us to doubt in God. When everything goes well with you, you will keep on testing God as you have nothing to worry about. However, we get challenged to believe in God at one time when we face difficult situations which we do not know how to solve. There are a number … Continue...
brockwaychurch.com
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Trying to defend the Bible with the Bible?
 
Arlette said:
Trying to defend the Bible with the Bible?
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Well when you criticize the Bible by quoting the Bible why am I not allowed to use it to defend against the criticism? Would you prefer I use one of Doctor Suezz books?
 
Arlette said:
Knowledge of the truth supposedly leads to godliness. Paul must have known full well that his screech didn't apply to any and all Cretans.
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Yes, he made that clear when he said, "Cretans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.” Acts 2:11
 
Overitall said:
Well when you criticize the Bible by quoting the Bible why am I not allowed to use it to defend against the criticism? Would you prefer I use one of Doctor Suezz books?
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How else would you criticize the Bible?
 
Arlette said:
How else would you criticize the Bible?
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Certainly not by quoting some other book. But when you open that door of quoting the Bible I too can walk through it.
 
Overitall said:
Certainly not by quoting some other book. But when you open that door of quoting the Bible I too can walk through it.
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Some other verse in the Bible can't rehab the logical fallacy of Titus 1:12
 
Arlette said:
Some other verse in the Bible can't rehab the logical fallacy of Titus 1:12
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That is called cherry-pickin'...in case you didn't know...
 
Elora said:
That is called cherry-pickin'...in case you didn't know...
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Whatever you call it doesn't negate this fallacy in the Bible.
 
Arlette said:
Whatever you call it doesn't negate this fallacy in the Bible.
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There is no fallacy, as has been pointed out to you...
 
Elora said:
There is no fallacy, as has been pointed out to you...
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2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching.....blah blah blah" except Titus 1:12
 
Logicman said:
One of the classic scriptures that helps define the God-hating, stiff-necked, cretinous crowd, is 1 John 2:22 (NIV) -

"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son."
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And , the ironic thing, the author of the 1 John lied
 
Arlette said:
Some other verse in the Bible can't rehab the logical fallacy of Titus 1:12
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The point is that the Bible is the word of God, supposedly. Dumb mistakes like Titus 1:12 raise questions, or should raise questions if Christians were allowed to question it
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It wasn't a mistake.
That doesn't make it a BIBLICAL fallacy.

Paul was merely quoting Epimenides (a famous Cretan poet and prophet).

12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”


Whose prophet was Epimenides? We don't know exactly - but, not of Christian God.



While tending his father's sheep, Epimenides is said to have fallen asleep for fifty-seven years in a Cretan cave sacred to Zeus, after which he reportedly awoke with the gift of prophecy (Diogenes Laërtius i. 109–115).
Plutarch writes that Epimenides purified Athens after the pollution brought by the Alcmeonidae, and that the seer's expertise in sacrifices and reform of funeral practices were of great help to Solon in his reform of the Athenian state. The only reward he would accept was a branch of the sacred olive, and a promise of perpetual friendship between Athens and Cnossus (Plutarch, Life of Solon, 12; Aristotle, Ath. Pol. 1).

en.wikipedia.org

Epimenides - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org





From the Roman historian Diogenes Laertius, we learn about the invitation to Epimenides:


He was considered by the Greeks as a person especially beloved by the Gods, on which account, when the Athenians were afflicted by a plague, and the priestess at Delphi enjoined them to purify their city; they sent a ship and Nicias the son of Niceratus to Crete, to invite Epimenides to Athens; and he, coming there in the 46th Olympiad, purified the city and eradicated the plague for that time…
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You may think I’m making too much of a short phrase plucked from a long poem, but “Cretans, always liars” circulated as a philosophical appetizer throughout the region thereafter. It even appears in Paul’s letter to Titus more than 500 years later.
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www.patheos.com

Epimenides And The Plague Of Athens

A plague ravaged the young city-state of Athens sometime around 500 BC. The distressed citizens sought help from a revered sage on the island of Crete.
www.patheos.com www.patheos.com





The paradox - whether Epimenides was a liar or not - has nothing to do with the credibility of the Bible.
The "fallacy" that you think it somehow negates the Bible in any way..........is only in your mind.
 
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Arlette said:
Some other verse in the Bible can't rehab the logical fallacy of Titus 1:12
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You haven't established that it was a logical fallacy. You just believe you have. Isolating one verse without taking into consideration reason, coupled with other verses related to it, isn't a sound way of debating. I tried to reason with you without quoting verses and you had to resort to citing another one you thought supported your position. It didn't. I doubt you understand how "inspiration from God" works. Nor if you understand that the Bibles available to us are not the original "inspiration from God" as it was given to "holy men of God". At best some of them are just translations of texts copied from the originals.
 
Overitall said:
You haven't established that it was a logical fallacy. You just believe you have. Isolating one verse without taking into consideration reason, coupled with other verses related to it, isn't a sound way of debating. I tried to reason with you without quoting verses and you had to resort to citing another one you thought supported your position. It didn't. I doubt you understand how "inspiration from God" works. Nor if you understand that the Bibles available to us are not the original "inspiration from God" as it was given to "holy men of God". At best some of them are just translations of texts copied from the originals.
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It's a paradox. It just doesn't matter to you. You want and NEED the Bible to be the word of God.
 
nota bene said:
How can you know what another person needs?
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Because that's the only way into heaven for believers. The jackpot. Victory after all. Isn't that the reason Christians put up with blatantly ridiculous stuff like virgin birth and the Noah story? Compromise their intellectual integrity in order to somehow beat death? Doesn't it all just boil down to the fear of death?

Like, let me believe in unicorns or talking snakes is what's gonna do the trick? Like, SERIOUSLY????
 
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Arlette said:
Because that's the only way into heaven for believers. The jackpot. Victory after all. Isn't that the reason Christians put up with blatantly ridiculous stuff like virgin birth and the Noah story? Compromise their intellectual integrity in order to somehow beat death? Doesn't it all just boil down to the fear of death?
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I'm a believer and I have no desire to go to heaven...guess that knocks your theory square in the head...lol...
 
Arlette said:
It's a paradox. It just doesn't matter to you. You want and NEED the Bible to be the word of God.
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Why is it then you NEED for it NOT to be the word of God? Why do you NEED there to be some proof of that?
It's clear you're not a believer, not a Christian. Fair enough - no one's ridiculing you or berating you for that. And frankly, no one would have even known had you not started this thread to attack the bible and Christianity.

What's prompting that?

Your initial question was readily and easily answered - there's no paradox, and yet you persist in asserting there is. Why?

Every culture is - generally - known by its sins, or vices. It doesn't mean every individual in that culture is given to them; that'd be absurd. It's just a general statement of pretty much what everyone already acknowledges, nothing more. The Corinthians were known for the lasciviousness, the Laodiceans (like many Americans) for their materialism, and perhaps their greed. The Cretans had - as is well-established - a reputation for lying and deceit. And it's not just cultural, it's political too. When you think of a "conservative" - what pops into your head? These are the biases we ALL carry, then and now.

So again, no paradox - but why the need for there to be one?
 
Elora said:
I'm a believer and I have no desire to go to heaven...guess that knocks your theory square in the head...lol...
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Another paradox. How cute
 
EdwinWillers said:
Why is it then you NEED for it NOT to be the word of God? Why do you NEED there to be some proof of that?
It's clear you're not a believer, not a Christian. Fair enough - no one's ridiculing you or berating you for that. And frankly, no one would have even known had you not started this thread to attack the bible and Christianity.

What's prompting that?

Your initial question was readily and easily answered - there's no paradox, and yet you persist in asserting there is. Why?

Every culture is - generally - known by its sins, or vices. It doesn't mean every individual in that culture is given to them; that'd be absurd. It's just a general statement of pretty much what everyone already acknowledges, nothing more. The Corinthians were known for the lasciviousness, the Laodiceans (like many Americans) for their materialism, and perhaps their greed. The Cretans had - as is well-established - a reputation for lying and deceit. And it's not just cultural, it's political too. When you think of a "conservative" - what pops into your head? These are the biases we ALL carry, then and now.

So again, no paradox - but why the need for there to be one?
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Because there is. I was assuming you knew the definition of the term, now I see you do not. My bad. Please look up the word and familiarize yourself with it's meaning.
 
Arlette said:
Because that's the only way into heaven for believers. The jackpot. Victory after all. Isn't that the reason Christians put up with blatantly ridiculous stuff like virgin birth and the Noah story? Compromise their intellectual integrity in order to somehow beat death? Doesn't it all just boil down to the fear of death?

Like, let me believe in unicorns or talking snakes is what's gonna do the trick? Like, SERIOUSLY????
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Like, are you aware that not every Christian relies on sola scriptura?

I am not afraid of death. When it comes, I pray that I won't suffer horribly and that my family will not be financially burdened, but that's pretty much it. No one "beats" death, but Christians regard death as the beginning of eternal life, so my view is "Don't worry--enjoy every precious day and moment...and be ready."
 
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