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Time's Persons of the Year: Journalists

Moderate Right

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...and other President's would have made SA pay for such actions. Sorry, the United States does not look the other way over criminal activities of despots, even friendly ones. There would have been a price to pay. There would have been sanctions and closing of consulates, pulling landing slots of Saudi airlines at US airports, etc.

It is testament to the weakness of Trump that he merely looked the other way.

No they wouldn't. SA has always been like this. It is no surprise.
 

upsideguy

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No they wouldn't. SA has always been like this. It is no surprise.

OK, kindly give us three examples of similar behavior on their part. I, for one, have no recollection of a state-orchestrated murder of an American resident, father to American citizens, before. Perhaps my recollection is incorrect....
 
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Gunny2009

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The free press has been under assault both here at home and around the world. I think this is a good choice.

It is a good choice, but at the same time seems a little self serving.
 

akyron

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Yet you support a President who does...

Needless to say. The guy got beheaded trying to take down one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

Does what?

So the deaths of exactly how many saudis will make this right for you?
 

nota bene

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If being a journalist and being under attack puts you in the running for person of the year, I wonder why there aren't any Mexican journalists on that list as they are killed every day by the cartels. Why do they have to go half way around the world to find people for this list?

My first thought when I read Kashoggi's name in the OP was "Daniel Pearl."

So I checked, and no, he wasn't Time's Person of the Year. But here is a list from the beginning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Person_of_the_Year
 

akyron

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OK, kindly give us three examples of similar behavior on their part. I, for one, have no recollection of a state-orchestrated murder of an American resident, father to American citizens, before. Perhaps my recollection is incorrect....

So the deaths of exactly how many saudis would make this right for you?
 

upsideguy

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So the deaths of exactly how many saudis would make this right for you?

Not at all what I am asking. I am merely challenging a poster that says the Saudi's behave like this all the time. I don't think he can back that statement

I am looking for the Saudi's to be slapped with economic and diplomatic sanctions. I don't believe in eye for eye justice.
 

JoanDavis

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No Mexican journalists work for The Capital Gazette newspaper in Annapolis, Maryland which is the group they named.

How do you know there are no Mexican / hispanic journalists working for the Capital Gazette newspaper. One of the survivors - Selene San Felice - has a name that sounds hispanic.
 

akyron

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Not at all what I am asking. I am merely challenging a poster that says the Saudi's behave like this all the time. I don't think he can back that statement

I am looking for the Saudi's to be slapped with economic and diplomatic sanctions. I don't believe in eye for eye justice.

"Criminal law punishments in Saudi Arabia include public beheading, hanging, stoning, amputation and lashing. Serious criminal offences include not only internationally recognized crimes such as murder, rape, theft and robbery, but also apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery."

They do believe in eye for an eye.

So you think one of the richest countries in the world is going to be concerned with diplomatic sanctions??? Do you think Russia or China is not waiting in the wings to take their money?

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Vladimir Putin high-five at G20

Doubtful that sanctions would hurt anyone but the USA...ahhh ....ok...Your normal agenda is revealed...
 

NeverTrump

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Does what?

So the deaths of exactly how many saudis will make this right for you?

The President supports the corruption in Saudi Arabia. Are you seriously this ignorant????
 

tres borrachos

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Gallup never predicted any victory. They merely report the results of their polls

I was being facetious. Not that the poster I directed that to is astute enough to recognize it.
 

ecofarm

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Naming Jamal Khashoggi is self serving apologism. He might be if his death made any difference, if we'd done anything. But we didn't so it didn't and we oughtn't congratulate ourselves for not doing anything and allowing his death to be in vain. The Person of the Year makes a difference, right? That's on us, and let's not pretend it changed anything.
 

tres borrachos

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It was about the same time that EVERYONE was predicting a Clinton victory. What's that got to do with anything? Trust in the media, IE journalists, is at an all time low so they get named "person of the year"? Why?

Just because Donald Trump orders you to not trust the media doesn't believe everyone else doesn't trust them. Trump is a lying fraud. He isn't suckering me or anyone else whose brain is wired right.

EVERYONE wasn't predicting a Clinton victory. NOBODY predicts the Electoral College. But they were right - she beat old corrupt pants in the popular vote - a washed up loser like her. That's because most people were smart enough to reject the genital grabbing fat fraud criminal named Trump.
 

Hatuey

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Naming Jamal Khashoggi is self serving apologism. He might be if his death made any difference, if we'd done anything. But we didn't so it didn't and we oughtn't congratulate ourselves for not doing anything and allowing his death to be in vain. The Person of the Year makes a difference, right? That's on us, and let's not pretend it changed anything.

His death allowed our leadership a clear chance to rebuke the Saudi Arabian way of treating critics. It didn't. Instead, it ignored it and then accepted as another part of doing business. That's dangerous ground we are stepping on.

His death did make a difference.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

ecofarm

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His death did make a difference.

Not to journalism. Not to international relations. Not in any measurable way.

That's our fault. Don't pretend anything changed. Naming him POTY is basically pretending we did something.
 

Jetboogieman

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His death allowed our leadership a clear chance to rebuke the Saudi Arabian way of treating critics. It didn't. Instead, it ignored it and then accepted as another part of doing business. That's dangerous ground we are stepping on.

His death did make a difference.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

You know whats worse than your government and Particularly your President handling that as poorly as he did, his supporters reaction...

Once again why?

Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows it.

But I agree, the precedent Trump and his supporters have set with that incident, doesn't paint a pretty picture.
 

Hatuey

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Not to journalism. Not to international relations. Not in any measurable way.
It did.

Journalists could normally count on the US government to keep up the pretence of defending free speech. Some condemnation and sanctions has normally been imposed when a government is found to be targetting journalists. Trump's response marks a new course for how the US government treats residents and citizens.

To say K's case doesn't mark a change in how journalists work, and how safe many are feeling right now is myopic. There will be a change. What stops Mexico from killing journalists critical of its policies and taking a step backwards into the horrors that were the 70s? What stops the Hamas of the world from killing Israeli journalists?

Validating murder will have serious consequences.



Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

ecofarm

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Validating murder will have serious consequences.

Let me know when that happens. Until then, it's delusional self congratulation to pretend he made a difference.
 

Hatuey

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You know whats worse than your government and Particularly your President handling that as poorly as he did, his supporters reaction...

Once again why?

Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows it.

But I agree, the precedent Trump and his supporters have set with that incident, doesn't paint a pretty picture.
Don't think eco is a Trump supporter. Not seeing the problem with the US government vouching for murder is a wild position to take. We have a constitution that bases itself on all men being equal. I can understand people not being found guilty, but the Trump administration hasn't even tried to say they believe in a fake story. They've just accepted murder. .

That's a piss poor show.



Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

Hatuey

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Let me know when that happens. Until then, it's delusional self congratulation to pretend he made a difference.
It did. See the Trump administration's response to his murder.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

Jetboogieman

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Don't think eco is a Trump supporter. Not seeing the problem with the US government vouching for murder is a wild position to take. We have a constitution that bases itself on all men being equal. I can understand people not being found guilty, but the Trump administration hasn't even tried to say they believe in a fake story. They've just accepted murder. .

That's a piss poor show.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

Sorry wasn't talking about Eco, but how many Trump supporters in threads up and down the forum, basically going in regards to his murder, So what?
 

RAMOSS

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He was chopped to pieces on the order of an authoritarian dictator installed by Kushner and Trump. I don't give a damn that he supported the muslim brotherhood. I care that the guy you most likely voted for is defending the brutal murder of a journalist.

That you cannot drum up any sympathy tells me precisely what sort of person you are, one I want nothing to do with.

You righties and your embrace of this authoritarian behavior is exceedingly troubling.

The crown prince was not installed by Krusher and Trump. But, he is a brutal dictator .. or rather heir apparent. When he gets in power there will be lots of issues.
 

Hatuey

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Nothing quantifiable changed.
The understanding that the US government should stand up in defense of US residents and journalists can be qualified.

We stoop up for murdered journalists before.
We don't anymore.

It's clear Time acknowledging K's death to be important for this reason. Our government has excused violence against critics and allowed for others to claim the right to do so.



Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 
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