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Time to tax capital gains as ordinary inc [W167]

Dittohead not!

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The top 1% of income earners have it pretty good. Sure, they've worked hard and earned it, but then, so do the bottom 99%. They're just more likely to rely on earned income instead of capital gains.

So, why not tax capital gains at the same rate as ordinary income?

It seems to me that is an idea whose time has come.

In case you were wondering, it looks like the current "recovery" has treated the top earners pretty well:

piketty_saez-e1378850869532.png
 

trfjr

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The top 1% of income earners have it pretty good. Sure, they've worked hard and earned it, but then, so do the bottom 99%. They're just more likely to rely on earned income instead of capital gains.

So, why not tax capital gains at the same rate as ordinary income?

It seems to me that is an idea whose time has come.

In case you were wondering, it looks like the current "recovery" has treated the top earners pretty well:

piketty_saez-e1378850869532.png

sure great idea raise the cap gain tax and force their investment money else where
 

Lutherf

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The top 1% of income earners have it pretty good. Sure, they've worked hard and earned it, but then, so do the bottom 99%. They're just more likely to rely on earned income instead of capital gains.

So, why not tax capital gains at the same rate as ordinary income?

It seems to me that is an idea whose time has come.

In case you were wondering, it looks like the current "recovery" has treated the top earners pretty well:

Why just tax capital gains? Why not raise the rate on everyone who makes more than $150k to 110%. That way you can not only collect what they've stolen from the masses but also recoup some of the stuff they have stashed. Hell, better yet, just kill them and take it all. That would ease up the deficit AND open the door for more jobs for the unskilled.
 

Dittohead not!

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Why just tax capital gains? Why not raise the rate on everyone who makes more than $150k to 110%. That way you can not only collect what they've stolen from the masses but also recoup some of the stuff they have stashed. Hell, better yet, just kill them and take it all. That would ease up the deficit AND open the door for more jobs for the unskilled.

I'm just going to have to assume that is sarcasm/satire.

If taxing capital gains at the same rate as earned income is "killing them and taking it all", what is the tax on earned income?
 

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There are a lot of people in this country who will never make it to the top 1% because of issues like fear of public speaking or moving away from their home state. There's also usually tons of risk that goes into making that kind of money, risk and problems that most people don't have the stomach to take associated with litigation, taxes, employee concerns, etc...otherwise, more people would, I mean, who's holding them back?
 

SBu

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The top 1% of income earners have it pretty good. Sure, they've worked hard and earned it, but then, so do the bottom 99%. They're just more likely to rely on earned income instead of capital gains.

So, why not tax capital gains at the same rate as ordinary income?

It seems to me that is an idea whose time has come.

In case you were wondering, it looks like the current "recovery" has treated the top earners pretty well:

piketty_saez-e1378850869532.png

So you want to pull the rug out from those invested in stocks thereby leading to a huge market crash that would drain the retirement and supplemental accounts of tens of millions of Americans? There's a reason why these ideas are silly.
 

trfjr

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I'm just going to have to assume that is sarcasm/satire.

If taxing capital gains at the same rate as earned income is "killing them and taking it all", what is the tax on earned income?

If the cap gain tax is raised to the point it is not worth the risk to invest they wont and you will get nothing no investing and no taxes accumulated from those investments
 

Gipper

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If taxing capital gains at the same rate as earned income is "killing them and taking it all", what is the tax on earned income?

Know what it's called? It's called "risk-free".

I'll support taxing capital gains as ordinary income when capital losses become refundable credits as opposed to a simple write-off.
 

Helix

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Above a cap, investment income should absolutely be taxed as income.
 

AliHajiSheik

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Time to tax capital gains as ordinary income

Capital gained are on assets that can be lost. Wages cannot be lost as long as they are earned.

If you just flat out more money to the government, why don't you just tax wealth? Have $1 billion? send in $10 million because Ditto wants your money. This taxing income is just penny ante stuff.
 

Dittohead not!

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If the cap gain tax is raised to the point it is not worth the risk to invest they wont and you will get nothing no investing and no taxes accumulated from those investments

If it is not worth the effort to get a job and earn income, then people won't want to work.

OK, there is some truth to that one, but why should earned income be treated differently? If taxes on CG are too high, then taxes on earned income are too high as well, and both need to be reduced.
 

Dittohead not!

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Know what it's called? It's called "risk-free".

I'll support taxing capital gains as ordinary income when capital losses become refundable credits as opposed to a simple write-off.

A simple write off isn't good enough? Make money on investment A, lose it on B, and only pay on the difference. That makes sense. Refundable credits? That sounds like a heads I win, tails you lose sort of scheme.

By the "it's a risk so the gains shouldn't be taxed" rationale, gambling winnings should also be taxed at a special lower rate.
 

trfjr

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If it is not worth the effort to get a job and earn income, then people won't want to work.

OK, there is some truth to that one, but why should earned income be treated differently? If taxes on CG are too high, then taxes on earned income are too high as well, and both need to be reduced.

Im for lowing taxes on every body any income but against raising them for any reason
 

Gipper

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A simple write off isn't good enough? Make money on investment A, lose it on B, and only pay on the difference. That makes sense. Refundable credits? That sounds like a heads I win, tails you lose sort of scheme.

By the "it's a risk so the gains shouldn't be taxed" rationale, gambling winnings should also be taxed at a special lower rate.

In a way they are, because of AGI.
 

imagep

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sure great idea raise the cap gain tax and force their investment money else where

Like where?

Somolia where they have no taxes?

Europe where they are taxed at even higher rates?
 

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Villiage Idiot
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Why just tax capital gains? Why not raise the rate on everyone who makes more than $150k to 110%. That way you can not only collect what they've stolen from the masses but also recoup some of the stuff they have stashed. Hell, better yet, just kill them and take it all. That would ease up the deficit AND open the door for more jobs for the unskilled.

Because thats ludicrous, unpractical, socially and economically harmful. Most anything taken to an extreme is harmful. I suspect that is why Ditto didn't suggest an extreme.
 

trfjr

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Like where?

Somolia where they have no taxes?

Europe where they are taxed at even higher rates?
the ever growing Asian market
 

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Villiage Idiot
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So you want to pull the rug out from those invested in stocks thereby leading to a huge market crash that would drain the retirement and supplemental accounts of tens of millions of Americans? There's a reason why these ideas are silly.

Who suggested any of that?
 

imagep

Villiage Idiot
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Know what it's called? It's called "risk-free".

I'll support taxing capital gains as ordinary income when capital losses become refundable credits as opposed to a simple write-off.

So you want to socialize losses? I never pegged you for a socialist.
 

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Villiage Idiot
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Above a cap, investment income should absolutely be taxed as income.

Why shouldn't we tax all investment income at the same rate as income from work?

For that matter, I really don't understand why we tax income from work at all. Any time you tax something, don't you end up with less of it? Do we really want people to become less personally productive?
 

Gipper

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So you want to socialize losses? I never pegged you for a socialist.

I'd rather it just stay as it is. Higher risk should come with higher reward.

I highly disagree with the OP's position. For some reason, he thinks that something deserves to be taken just because they own it.

Robin Hood wasn't a libertarian. He was a common thief.
 

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Capital gained are on assets that can be lost. Wages cannot be lost as long as they are earned.

If you just flat out more money to the government, why don't you just tax wealth? Have $1 billion? send in $10 million because Ditto wants your money. This taxing income is just penny ante stuff.

By taxing income derived from assets, you are more or less taxing wealth. It's much more practical that taxing wealth directly, because income can be tracked while changes in wealth are very difficult to track. Like if I have an antique in my house, who the hell knows what it is really worth? Who knows how much my real estate holdings are worth, until they are sold?
 

SBu

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Who suggested any of that?

Who suggested the logical outcome of raising the capital gains tax on markets? The 1% that people seem so concerned about are well connected and have many tools to invest. If raising the capital gains tax was ever really considered, you would see a mass exodus from American markets from this "1% class". When people take out their money quick, markets crash. This would effect the average person with a retirement account and the casual investor.

Perhaps you can give me an alternate possibility?
 

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I'd rather it just stay as it is. Higher risk should come with higher reward.

Higher risk does come with higher reward. When you invest into passive investments, the only thing you are risking is your excess wealth, and you expect or at least hope to gain more wealth from those passive investments, while doing absolutely no personally work or effort to obtain that new wealth.

Which is really one of the biggest irritations of the tax break on capital gains, it's only allowable on PASSIVE investments. If you actively manage and work in your own business, you don't get that tax break.

Anyhow, the price of investments already have the risk factored in. Thats why investments in the stock market typically result in a higher ROI than in safer investments, like Treasuries.

I highly disagree with the OP's position. For some reason, he thinks that something deserves to be taken just because they own it.

Robin Hood wasn't a libertarian. He was a common thief.

The Kind of Knottingham wasn't a libertarian either. He was also thief.
 

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Villiage Idiot
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Who suggested the logical outcome of raising the capital gains tax on markets? The 1% that people seem so concerned about are well connected and have many tools to invest. If raising the capital gains tax was ever really considered, you would see a mass exodus from American markets from this "1% class". When people take out their money quick, markets crash. This would effect the average person with a retirement account and the casual investor.

Perhaps you can give me an alternate possibility?

Yes, I see an alternate possibility. There was a time when we had no capital gains taxes. We then established capital gains taxes. By your theory, every rich person would have pulled their money out of the US and invested it elsewhere. But that didn't happen.

My assumption would be that if we taxed all income at the same rate, we could lower the tax rate, or have much larger standard deductions. This would stimulate the economy because it would increase demand. Companies would make more money, and thus the stock market would become even more valuable, regardless of the tax rate.
 
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