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Time to get the lobby money out of D.C.

mesue said:
Do you really think that if your brother or nephew had committed such a crime that the FBI would not be breathing down your neck, whether there was a rumor of you disowning him or not, (they would say that was just your cover for not getting questioned, oh my what a thought, could someone actually lie about such a thing?) especially if you were leaving the country. What do you mean they were profiled? They showed their passports and left, thats all. Why do you feel these people should have received preferential treatment over you or any other American? Why do you have such a problem with their being questioned? You continually say they knew nothing, how do you know that, no one questioned them about what they knew?
Do you understand that Richard Clarke...The SAME Counter-Terrorism Cheif Richard Clarke that was a holdover from the Clinton Administration and frequent Bushbasher...has said publicly that HE was the one that greenlighted the Bin Laden family to leave?

This is a non-issue...Surprising it was even brought up...:roll:
 
The Real McCoy said:
Do you honestly believe the government simply let them go without doing some sort of background check? Do a little research about bin Laden's family, including his father and mother (along with his father's dozen or so other wives) It's all public knowledge.... and what questions do you feel the FBI should have asked them?




Because other Americans are not of Saudi Arabian descent and don't carry the name of bin Laden.

Yes I do believe that because no one has given me any other information to the contrary? Have you heard the first government official say they were questioned. At first the Bush Administration tried to say those flights never even took place. and afterwards when they could deny it no longer they never came forward and said, but they were questioned. After it came out I am sure they would have done so had there been any evidence. Here is one of the first articles written about it including interviews with people who were hired to be temporary bodyguards. http://web.archive.org/web/20011108145853/http://www.tampatrib.com/MGA3F78EFSC.html

First of all some of them had been under surveilance and were under suspicion already for something, Bush told the FBI to back off and not surveil the Bin laden family. Apparently the Saudi's have always received preferential treatment but it got worse after Bush took office in 2001.
http://www.ccmep.org/hotnews/fbi110701.html

As for your last sentence about the Bin laden name. I don't recall hearing about any of the Nickel's family receiving any preferential treatment. I am sure where they lived people knew them and knew they were a relatives, but no one flew them out of the country for their safety. No one gave them preferential treatment.

Here is what I think if Clinton had been president when 911 happened and allowed them to leave, you would also think they should have been questioned. And I don't know that the exact same thing might not have happened (their being allowed to leave without questioning) with Clinton as president either way its wrong. They should have been detained for several days and questioned thoroughly before they left the country. And again I am not saying harm them in any way but they should have been questioned.

They should not have been allowed to take private flights before americans were allowed to do so. There were family members of 911 victims trying to get to their children and they could not, but you think it is perfectly acceptable that Osama Bin laden's family could book private flights and have their private jets fly all over the country picking up family members and leave the country without being questioned thoroughly.
 
mesue said:
As for your last sentence about the Bin laden name. I don't recall hearing about any of the Nickel's family receiving any preferential treatment. I am sure where they lived people knew them and knew they were a relatives, but no one flew them out of the country for their safety. No one gave them preferential treatment.

The Nickel's family? Who's Nickel?

mesue said:
They should have been detained for several days and questioned thoroughly before they left the country. And again I am not saying harm them in any way but they should have been questioned.

DETAINED??? Are you serious?? WHY?? What crimes did they commit? And what questions should the FBI have asked them?
 
mesue said:
That is not a fact its a guess, I mean really someone could say they were on Mars and it would have the same amount of credibility.

Really? Do we have pictures of military caravans crossing from Iraq to Mars just before we came in and took Saddam out? Do we have any documents which suggest they were taken to Mars?

And as far as your dismissal of the Democrat statements vis-a-vis Saddam's WMD and the threat he posed. You argue whether he should have been removed based on the evidence we had, but by admitting that the Democrats believed the same thing Bush did you just blew the case that Bush lied or hyped intelligence. That being said with everything in the quotes from the Democrats please try and make the case that Saddam should have been left in power, as opposed to Bush removing him.
 
The Real McCoy said:
The Nickel's family? Who's Nickel?

Sorry I meant to say McVeigh family or rather Timothy McVeigh's family. I know someone with that Nickel's last name who looks like him and somehow get the names mixed up all the time.



DETAINED??? Are you serious?? WHY?? What crimes did they commit? And what questions should the FBI have asked them?

You know I am talking about one or two days detainment for questioning, thats all. Do you think everyone who is detained is guilty of anything? Lots of people are detained and questioned, it does not necessarily mean they are guilty of anything. There were lots of them leaving to question them properly might have taken a few days.

questions: When did you last see Osama? Where was he exactly when you last saw him? What members of your family might have contact with him? If he were to try and contact one of you, who do you think it would be? Is anyone in your family giving him money at all? These are just a few common sense questions.
Right now we have people being detained for years without access to even a lawyer or a family member without a trial in Guantamo and prisons like Abu gharib, and others we have heard little about and the government reports reveal that the government has found that 65% are just innocent farmers and have no involvement other than just being at the wrong place at the wrong time, one poor guy got arrested because he had a shovel and a cell phone in his car. But they don't release them for months or even years and some are tortured. Do you think thats right?

There were over 100 people who left the country on those flights, so it does not seem so strange that questioning them all might have taken a few days? And again, how do you know they knew nothing? How do you know they did not have any involvement? There are reports that some family members had been giving him Osama money and using the cover of giving to charity to do it.
 
cnredd said:
Do you understand that Richard Clarke...The SAME Counter-Terrorism Cheif Richard Clarke that was a holdover from the Clinton Administration and frequent Bushbasher...has said publicly that HE was the one that greenlighted the Bin Laden family to leave?

This is a non-issue...Surprising it was even brought up...:roll:

Actually Clark did sign the paper, but he said the request for them to be allowed to leave came from the white house or state department. I hardly think that Clarke had worked for so many administrations and made decisions like this on his own and kept his job. Anyone with a brain would have known this would not look good for the Bush administration, which is why they denied it for so long.
I have look on the website for the 911 commission report and typed in Richard Clarke testimony in search and it will not give it to me, I get the link but it will not come up, sorry I can't give you the direct quote from the government website. if you do not mind see if you can access it please. I would rather go by the 911 commission report on what he actully said. I searched for direct quotes from Clarke on this but can't find any. Below are some but i am sure many will not trust the website.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing8/clarke_statement.pdf

http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/ManifestRaisesQues.htm

During last week's hearing testimony, 9-11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer asked Richard Clarke, former Bush Administration National Coordinator for Counterterrorism for the National Security Council (NSC), "Who gave the final approval for the bin Laden family to leave the country without being interviewed?"

Clarke answered that it could have been the "Inter-Agency Crisis Management Group, but most likely it was the White House Chief of Staff's office or the State Department." [according to this writer's notes / Commission transcripts for March 23 - 24, 2004 should be available soon at http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/index.htm ]

When Roemer asked "why the Saudis were allowed to leave the country, who was on the planes, how many, and why the decision was made," Clarke said the government "feared for their lives...some of them were bin Laden family members, and the Saudi embassy requested their evacuation."

During testimony Clarke told Roemer "I refused to approve the [Saudi] request. I passed it on to [FBI Asst. Director] Dale Watson and the flight was approved....I don't think they were ever interviewed in this country." Only transcripts and/or video would negate Clarke's assertion.
 
Stinger said:
Really? Do we have pictures of military caravans crossing from Iraq to Mars just before we came in and took Saddam out? Do we have any documents which suggest they were taken to Mars?

And as far as your dismissal of the Democrat statements vis-a-vis Saddam's WMD and the threat he posed. You argue whether he should have been removed based on the evidence we had, but by admitting that the Democrats believed the same thing Bush did you just blew the case that Bush lied or hyped intelligence. That being said with everything in the quotes from the Democrats please try and make the case that Saddam should have been left in power, as opposed to Bush removing him.

Its amazing you are so determined to believe the Bush Administration and no one else and so here are some quotes from the Bush Administration, there is video of them saying it at the website. Below are excerpts of their statments, for the full story or to watch it on video go here

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

Powell, February 24, 2001
He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors

May15, 2001
Secretary Powell: The sanctions, as they are called, have succeeded over the last 10 years, not in deterring him from moving in that direction, but from actually being able to move in that direction. The Iraqi regime militarily remains fairly weak. It doesn't have the capacity it had 10 or 12 years ago.

Rice July 29, 2001
But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.
 
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