Time to end the hegemony of the two major parties

[Dittohead not!]

I have friends who are politically conservative, but really don't like Trump. When I tell them I don't plan to vote for Trump or his opponent either one, but for Gary Johnson, they say: "Who's that?"

And that's the problem. No one knows anything about any of the third party candidates.

So, I say, "He's the only conservative running this time," which is true.

Take a look at where he stands on the issues, compare that with Hillary and Donald, and see who you agree with.

Then ask yourself if it isn't time to dump the Republicants and the Democraps, or at least give them some competition.

 

[cpwill]

I have friends who are politically conservative, but really don't like Trump. When I tell them I don't plan to vote for Trump or his opponent either one, but for Gary Johnson, they say: "Who's that?"

And that's the problem. No one knows anything about any of the third party candidates.

So, I say, "He's the only conservative running this time," which is true.

This would be the guy who talked about how wonderful Hillary was, and who believes in a positive right to abortion, and that the government should force you to violate your religious beliefs and conscience in order to avoid risking anyone else having hurt feelings, yes?

Even many Libertarians don't like this guy. They nominated him because they thought it would bring "legitimacy" (he made the same argument - hard - for Weld at the convention and got it passed) to the party to have a former Governor at the top of the ticket.

 

[Dittohead not!]

This would be the guy who talked about how wonderful Hillary was, and who believes in a positive right to abortion, and that the government should force you to violate your religious beliefs and conscience in order to avoid risking anyone else having hurt feelings, yes?

Even many Libertarians don't like this guy. They nominated him because they thought it would bring "legitimacy" (he made the same argument - hard - for Weld at the convention and got it passed) to the party to have a former Governor at the top of the ticket.

Support the woman's right to choose, but don't expect the rest of us to pay for it. Sounds pretty much like a libertarian stance to me. He's pretty consistent throughout the issues in supporting individual rights over government power.

You may not agree with every issue, but I'll bet you agree with more of his positions than with Trump's or Clinton's.

This:

that the government should force you to violate your religious beliefs and conscience in order to avoid risking anyone else having hurt feelings

not sure where you found that or what it's based on.

 

[cpwill]

Support the woman's right to choose, but don't expect the rest of us to pay for it. Sounds pretty much like a libertarian stance to me.

Yup. Too bad Johnson/Weld went on CNN and declared that the government should pay to protect it because you had a positive right to access it. Because that's not the Libertarian stance (nor were his later comments about the need to expand government in order to deny due process to gun owners).

Nor is "support the woman's right to kill her child" inherently the libertarian stance. The Libertarian truth that government is instituted among men to protect our rights, which are universal and inalienable, rather militates against it.

He's pretty consistent throughout the issues in supporting individual rights over government power.

You may not agree with every issue, but I'll bet you agree with more of his positions than with Trump's or Clinton's.

:shrug: he's not a conservative. I can't support him.

not sure where you found that or what it's based on.

That would be based on Johnson's reply to whether or not people had individual rights of conscience and he replied that no, in the marketplace, they lost that right, because the government should be able to force Jews to serve Nazi's by baking Nazi Cakes.


Johnson isn't a conservative. He's not even that good of a Libertarian.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Yup. Too bad Johnson/Weld went on CNN and declared that the government should pay to protect it because you had a positive right to access it. Because that's not the Libertarian stance (nor were his later comments about the need to expand government in order to deny due process to gun owners).

Nor is "support the woman's right to kill her child" inherently the libertarian stance. The Libertarian truth that government is instituted among men to protect our rights, which are universal and inalienable, rather militates against it.



:shrug: he's not a conservative. I can't support him.



That would be based on Johnson's reply to whether or not people had individual rights of conscience and he replied that no, in the marketplace, they lost that right, because the government should be able to force Jews to serve Nazi's by baking Nazi Cakes.


Johnson isn't a conservative. He's not even that good of a Libertarian.

So, you are saying that there are no conservatives running this time around?

What about fiscally?

National debt, approaching $20 trillion, is bankrupting us. (Jan 2016)
National debt of $20 trillion is obscene & unsustainable. (Jan 2016)
Lay out a process for state bankruptcies. (Aug 2012)
No bank bailout; no farm subsidies; no stimulus. (May 2012)
Cut federal budget by 43% to bring it into balance. (Feb 2012)
Trillion-dollar stimulus failed; so will another $450B? (Sep 2011)
We could have avoided default without raising debt ceiling. (Aug 2011)
Ending the fed OK, but that's only part of the solution. (Aug 2011)
Stop incurring more debt; balanced budget by 2013. (Jul 2011)
Our debt is greatest threat to our national security. (Jul 2011)
Opposed TARP, stimulus & Fannie Mae bailout. (Jul 2011)
End the Fed; they've devalued the dollar by printing money. (May 2011)
On verge of financial collapse unless we balance budget. (May 2011)
Balance budget by cutting entitlements AND Defense. (Apr 2011)
Uphold commitments to states before other spending. (Sep 2001)

 

[Van Basten]

Lol, Gary Johnson.

I don't think the two party system is ever going anywhere since most people are fine with it, not happy, but at least fine with it. A new party always shows up and displaces one of the two, though for the last century and half, we've simply seen the parties morph.

 

[iguanaman]

Yup. Too bad Johnson/Weld went on CNN and declared that the government should pay to protect it because you had a positive right to access it. Because that's not the Libertarian stance (nor were his later comments about the need to expand government in order to deny due process to gun owners).

Nor is "support the woman's right to kill her child" inherently the libertarian stance. The Libertarian truth that government is instituted among men to protect our rights, which are universal and inalienable, rather militates against it.



:shrug: he's not a conservative. I can't support him.



That would be based on Johnson's reply to whether or not people had individual rights of conscience and he replied that no, in the marketplace, they lost that right, because the government should be able to force Jews to serve Nazi's by baking Nazi Cakes.


Johnson isn't a conservative. He's not even that good of a Libertarian.

You just equated gays with Nazi's and I'm a bit surprised. Do you really think gays are evil purveyors of hate and bigotry like Nazi's?

 

[cpwill]

So, you are saying that there are no conservatives running this time around?

Not really.

What about fiscally?

Johnson could be considered fiscally conservative, sure.

Which is like saying that Trump is a conservative because he wants to secure the border, and Hillary is a conservative because she wants to defeat ISIL.

 

[iguanaman]

Lol, Gary Johnson.

I don't think the two party system is ever going anywhere since most people are fine with it, not happy, but at least fine with it. A new party always shows up and displaces one of the two, though for the last century and half, we've simply seen the parties morph.

Since the electoral college requires a 51% total or the election is void, it certainly discourages having more then 2 viable parties. No one wants the selection of President to be given to the House of Representatives.

 

[cpwill]

You just equated gays with Nazi's and I'm a bit surprised. Do you really think gays are evil purveyors of hate and bigotry like Nazi's?

 

[iguanaman]

View attachment 67204091

So that was a Yes? Because there is no precedent that would force anyone to bake a "Nazi cake".

 

[cpwill]

So that was a Yes? Because there is no precedent that would force anyone to bake a "Nazi cake".

:shrug: you'd have to take it up with Johnson - he's the one who made the claim that we should.

 

[iguanaman]

:shrug: you'd have to take it up with Johnson - he's the one who made the claim that we should.

Oh..He is the nut then.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Not really.



Johnson could be considered fiscally conservative, sure.

Which is like saying that Trump is a conservative because he wants to secure the border, and Hillary is a conservative because she wants to defeat ISIL.

It really all depends on which issues you categorize as "conservative" I suppose. Wanting to address that 20 trillion debt is certainly a conservative value.

Lots of people say they want to secure the border, but have no practical ideas for doing so. Like Trump, they like to bring up the "fence" or "wall" idea in order to fool people into thinking they want to and have a way to secure the border. That doesn't make them conservatives.

Most people all around the world want to defeat ISIL. I'm not so sure that makes them all "conservatives" though.

A real conservative believes the Declaration of Independence means what it says: "It is for this purpose (securing rights) that governments exist..." Johnson may not totally follow that creed, but he comes a lot closer than Hillary or Trump.

 

[joG]

I have friends who are politically conservative, but really don't like Trump. When I tell them I don't plan to vote for Trump or his opponent either one, but for Gary Johnson, they say: "Who's that?"

And that's the problem. No one knows anything about any of the third party candidates.

So, I say, "He's the only conservative running this time," which is true.

Take a look at where he stands on the issues, compare that with Hillary and Donald, and see who you agree with.

Then ask yourself if it isn't time to dump the Republicants and the Democraps, or at least give them some competition.

Thank you. There are a few points I disagree on and the position on cap and trade is scientifically suboptimal. But his policies seem whole dimensions better than the others and must be among the best I have seen.

 

[Van Basten]

No one wants the selection of President to be given to the House of Representatives.

Nightmare fuel.

 

[joG]

You just equated gays with Nazi's and I'm a bit surprised. Do you really think gays are evil purveyors of hate and bigotry like Nazi's?

I don't think that a generalisation like that quite honest, but destroying a baker, because he followed his conscience and didn't bake your cake transcends normal bigotry and certainly does have a whiff of Naziism about it, now that you mention it, doesn't it.

 

[iguanaman]

I don't think that a generalisation like that quite honest, but destroying a baker, because he followed his conscience and didn't bake your cake transcends normal bigotry and certainly does have a whiff of Naziism about it, now that you mention it, doesn't it.

Yes it certainly would make that baker seem a bit Nazi-like but he would deserve it.

 

[joG]

Nightmare fuel.

It would certainly be interesting.

 

[cpwill]

It really all depends on which issues you categorize as "conservative" I suppose. Wanting to address that 20 trillion debt is certainly a conservative value.

Sure. So is wanting to secure the border. That doesn't make Trump a Conservative any more than it makes Johnson a Conservative.

A real conservative believes the Declaration of Independence means what it says: "It is for this purpose (securing rights) that governments exist..." Johnson may not totally follow that creed, but he comes a lot closer than Hillary or Trump.

Sure. And Trump comes (perhaps) closer than Hillary. That doesn't make Trump a conservative because Hillary is less so.

 

[joG]

Yes it certainly would make that baker seem a bit Nazi-like but he would deserve it.

You mean because he didn't bake a cake for those bigots?

 

[Visbek]

ask yourself if it isn't time to dump the Republicants and the Democraps, or at least give them some competition.

Then ask yourself if nations with multiple parties, and/or coalition governments, have more effective governance than the US.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Sure. So is wanting to secure the border. That doesn't make Trump a Conservative any more than it makes Johnson a Conservative.



Sure. And Trump comes (perhaps) closer than Hillary. That doesn't make Trump a conservative because Hillary is less so.

Exactly. Neither one of them is a conservative. As for "securing the border", that is quite different from proposing to build a multi billion dollar wall that will go down in history as one of the worst wastes of taxpayer money since the war in Iraq.

I do have to admit, though, you've pointed out a similarity between Trump and Johnson. They both were/are admirers of Hillary Clinton.

Here's a good perspective on the wall

 

[Dittohead not!]

Then ask yourself if nations with multiple parties, and/or coalition governments, have more effective governance than the US.

Good point.
We'd probably be better off with no political parties at all.

 

[cpwill]

Exactly. Neither one of them is a conservative.

Precisely. Neither Johnson nor Trump is a Conservative. Conservatives don't really have a candidate running this year.

As for "securing the border", that is quite different from proposing to build a multi billion dollar wall that will go down in history as one of the worst wastes of taxpayer money since the war in Iraq.

I do have to admit, though, you've pointed out a similarity between Trump and Johnson. They both were/are admirers of Hillary Clinton.

yup. I'm on a couple of libertarian groups on Face Book. The live reaction to that townhall was pretty apoplectic.

Here's a good perspective on the wall

:shrug: securing the border =/= "wall". Trump is also disconnected from reality.