Time for women to sort out the UK?

[Andalublue]

It just occurred to me that within a matter of weeks it may be that 5 of the leaders of the 7 largest UK political parties will be led by women.

If Theresa May and Angela Eagle are elected to lead their parties, Conservative, Labour, SNP, DUP, and PC, accounting for 629/650 MPs will be women-led. Is that significant?

A lot of feminists often argue that politics would be less of a gentlemen's club and have a more consensus-based, common sense approach to problem solving if run by women. If women become to dominate the leadership of the nation, will things change for the better?

 

[Henrin]

Women are more commonly collectivists and more commonly interested in large government, so no. Just look at membership in america in the green and democratic party.

Anyway, if feminism has proven anything its that both genders will generally act the same when in power. The idea that women can solve the worlds problems is false.

 

[Chagos]

About as much chances of that as has a snow ball in Hades.

On the basis of equality women are as capable as men of screwing things up and have shown this in an abundance of examples. One doesn't have to go back all the way to the "pistol packin' mommas" of (respectively) India and Ceylon (then), nor to the British prime example of The Dame, alone Teresa May started her more limelight appearance today by lying her effing head off when misrepresenting past conduct and achievements. Alone her "memory" of own conduct in handling the Abu Qatada case would have had me laughing my head off, had I not found it so embarrassing.

The only figures I see currently in this whole mess that at least give rise to suspecting some sort of integrity plus guts are Sturgeon and Davidson and that has nothing to do with their gender.

Possibly though with not hailing from the ever more embarrassing England.

 

[Andalublue]

Teresa May started her more limelight appearance today by lying her effing head off when misrepresenting past conduct and achievements. Alone her "memory" of own conduct in handling the Abu Qatada case would have had me laughing my head off, had I not found it so embarrassing.

Remind me. I don't remember much about that case.

 

[Tigerace117]

Remind me. I don't remember much about that case.

He was a Salafist cleric who got deported to Jordan and worked as a propagandist for the GIA, a very nasty Algerian Islamist group back in the 1990s. He called for the deaths of Egyptian officers and their families; American civilians, glorified Osama; and so on throughout the years.

 

[PeteEU]

He was a Salafist cleric who got deported to Jordan and worked as a propagandist for the GIA, a very nasty Algerian Islamist group back in the 1990s. He called for the deaths of Egyptian officers and their families; American civilians, glorified Osama; and so on throughout the years.

He is a Palestinian refugee that was granted asylum under conservative John Majors government in 1994. Now Theresa May solved the problem that she did not make. Blair cocked this case up by trying to deport him against British and European law. In the end it was Theresa May that got Jordan to change its laws and make the deportation possible..

Ironically he was not convicted of the crimes against him in Jordan and he is today a free man.

 

[Tigerace117]

He is a Palestinian refugee that was granted asylum under conservative John Majors government in 1994. Now Theresa May solved the problem that she did not make. Blair cocked this case up by trying to deport him against British and European law. In the end it was Theresa May that got Jordan to change its laws and make the deportation possible..

Ironically he was not convicted of the crimes against him in Jordan and he is today a free man.

That's.....interesting, especially considering what he's said.

 

[Andalublue]

He was a Salafist cleric who got deported to Jordan and worked as a propagandist for the GIA, a very nasty Algerian Islamist group back in the 1990s. He called for the deaths of Egyptian officers and their families; American civilians, glorified Osama; and so on throughout the years.

I'm fully aware of who he is, what I don't remember is how Theresa May was involved in his extradition case.

 

[Chagos]

Remind me. I don't remember much about that case.

May laid but every failed step she made at the doors of both the EU and the EUCHR all along the years' long proceedings. Near every time her efforts got busted it was because she had not done her homework on the requirements Human Rights had laid out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Qatada#2012.E2.80.9314

In May 2013, Abu Qatada pledged he would leave the UK if the UK and Jordanian governments agreed and ratified a treaty clarifying that evidence gained through torture would not be used against him in his forthcoming trial.

which she portrayed in new levels of prevarication this morning in that, to tell the real truth, she did not finally succeed in deporting him but complied with his offer of negotiating that deal for him.

She's as bloody a liar as all the rest of them.

Abu Qatada incidentally was found not guilty in Jordan for whatever that's worth and I'd guess it ain't worth much.

 

[Andalublue]

He is a Palestinian refugee that was granted asylum under conservative John Majors government in 1994. Now Theresa May solved the problem that she did not make. Blair cocked this case up by trying to deport him against British and European law. In the end it was Theresa May that got Jordan to change its laws and make the deportation possible..

Ironically he was not convicted of the crimes against him in Jordan and he is today a free man.

Okay, got it. I remember that now. Yes, Blair, or more importantly Blunkett and Smith buggered it up.

 

[Andalublue]

May laid but every failed step she made at the doors of both the EU and the EUCHR all along the years' long proceedings. Near every time her efforts got busted it was because she had not done her homework on the requirements Human Rights had laid out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Qatada#2012.E2.80.9314which she portrayed in new levels of prevarication this morning in that, to tell the real truth, she did not finally succeed in deporting him but complied with his offer of negotiating that deal for him.

She's as bloody a liar as all the rest of them.

Abu Qatada incidentally was found not guilty in Jordan for whatever that's worth and I'd guess it ain't worth much.

I get it. Difference of opinion. You say she negotiated his deportation, effectively doing deals with terrorists. Pete says she cleared up a mess not of her own making.

I think I won't take a view since the case isn't very familiar to me.

 

[PeteEU]

I'm fully aware of who he is, what I don't remember is how Theresa May was involved in his extradition case.

Oh she got him kicked out.. after everyone cocking it up.. including her. They of course all blamed the EU and Europe, but in reality the first times the extradition was blocked was by an UK court back.. and 12 other UK judges said the same when they heard the case in the many appeals the government(s) did.

 

[Manc Skipper]

May wants to leave the Human Rights Act.... Blaming that for the foul-ups in dealing with Abu Hamza and Quatada.

.....Wait a minute... She's changed her mind since last week's speech!

BREAKING: Theresa May Will NOT Try To Take UK Out Of European Convention on Human Rights - RightsInfo

 

[TheGoverness]

A lot of feminists often argue that politics would be less of a gentlemen's club and have a more consensus-based, common sense approach to problem solving if run by women. If women become to dominate the leadership of the nation, will things change for the better?

Not really. I don't see how being them being women would really change anything. It'd probably just be the same as when the men were the one's in office.

 

[PeteEU]

May laid but every failed step she made at the doors of both the EU and the EUCHR all along the years' long proceedings. Near every time her efforts got busted it was because she had not done her homework on the requirements Human Rights had laid out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Qatada#2012.E2.80.9314which she portrayed in new levels of prevarication this morning in that, to tell the real truth, she did not finally succeed in deporting him but complied with his offer of negotiating that deal for him.

She's as bloody a liar as all the rest of them.

Abu Qatada incidentally was found not guilty in Jordan for whatever that's worth and I'd guess it ain't worth much.

While I am no May supporter by any means, laying the blame on her is wrong.

Abu Qatada was granted asylum by the John Major government. May was not even a member of parliament when he got his asylum.

He was then arrested finally in 1999 and they tried to deport him.. this was under Blair. THEY were the first ones to **** it up. UK court after UK court blocked the deportation to Jordan.

Theresa May got the job as Home Secretary in 2010, 11 years after the case started and yes she did fix it... took her time, and yes she blamed the EU and Europe and all that typical conservative bull****, but that does not change the fact that, she in the end did make Jordan (with a lot of help of others) to change their laws that made it possible for Abu Qatada to be deported.

 

[Andalublue]

Not really. I don't see how being them being women would really change anything. It'd probably just be the same as when the men were the one's in office.

I think I agree, I just thought it might be interesting to chat about it. It might make PMQs sound a bit different though, don't you think?

 

[Chagos]

I get it. Difference of opinion. You say she negotiated his deportation, effectively doing deals with terrorists. Pete says she cleared up a mess not of her own making.

I think I won't take a view since the case isn't very familiar to me.

I'd say she contributed to the mess more than she cleaned it up. But she didn't make it initially, yet if experience with her is anything to go by, only by not being in position at that time. Her shenanigans of blaming the EU, the EUCHR and the Salvation Army (if she could have) every time her ministry had screwed up yet another deadline, demand or regulation were despicable.

People forget.

 

[Chagos]

While I am no May supporter by any means, laying the blame on her is wrong.

Abu Qatada was granted asylum by the John Major government. May was not even a member of parliament when he got his asylum.

He was then arrested finally in 1999 and they tried to deport him.. this was under Blair. THEY were the first ones to **** it up. UK court after UK court blocked the deportation to Jordan.

Theresa May got the job as Home Secretary in 2010, 11 years after the case started and yes she did fix it... took her time, and yes she blamed the EU and Europe and all that typical conservative bull****, but that does not change the fact that, she in the end did make Jordan (with a lot of help of others) to change their laws that made it possible for Abu Qatada to be deported.

I never said she started the whole mess, she simply added to the screw-up all along and the mistakes she herself made were no longer of the predecessors' making.

 

[SailaWay]

Women will figure out the right answer according with their logical thinking ability

Euro Union nation has LOST TRILLIONS with MERKELS Horrendous error.. will she be thrown in jail?

each and every day since the vote.. Uk stock has beat france and germany each day with germany the worst each day

canada will benefit greatly from this as well as america with trading strong with UK.. same with austrailia

for the WEEK after the vote.... UK GAINED 2.6%....all the rest had a minus... France 5.1%.. Germany 5.6%..Spain 8.1%..Italy 9.8%.. Ireland 11.7%...Greece 12.3%... and each of the nordic states in the euro union lost and these will vote to secede from the union and the reason why they lost less..

WHAT a MONSTROUS ERROR by MERKEL...!!!

and how the very young voted shows this issue was a wisdom test for voters.. 75% of 18-25 voted to remain in union which means the others more experienced and wiser voted in a landslide to exit

and the stock markets proves who are the wiinners and losers and also shows if you let unwise people vote a nation WILL BE THE LOSER.. so soon there will be a world wide wisdom test for voters and no more liberalism..

THIS also will bring te conservative states to separate from the liberals states.... WELCOME TO THE CONSERVATIVE STATES OF AMERICA

 

[PeteEU]

I never said she started the whole mess, she simply added to the screw-up all along and the mistakes she herself made were no longer of the predecessors' making.

Well yes and no. She continued government policy of the time, failed and got her chance to fix it.. which she did. If my math is not right, then please correct me. The case against Abu Qatada in the European court system was started before May came to sit in the Home Secretary seat. Hence she was not involved in appealing it to that court. Once the case was done and the UK government lost again, then May stepped up and did what the Blair government should have done back in the day. Remember the final judgement came in April 20th 2012, and he was out of the country by May 2013 after the UK and Jordan agreed the changes needed. So it is a tad hard to blame May for "selective" memory and such things.. Remember she got the job in 2010, after the appeal to the EHRC was done..

 

[Manc Skipper]

May wants to leave the Human Rights Act.... Blaming that for the foul-ups in dealing with Abu Hamza and Quatada.

.....Wait a minute... She's changed her mind since last week's speech!

BREAKING: Theresa May Will NOT Try To Take UK Out Of European Convention on Human Rights - RightsInfo

 

[Chagos]

Well yes and no. She continued government policy of the time, failed and got her chance to fix it.. which she did. If my math is not right, then please correct me. The case against Abu Qatada in the European court system was started before May came to sit in the Home Secretary seat. Hence she was not involved in appealing it to that court. Once the case was done and the UK government lost again, then May stepped up and did what the Blair government should have done back in the day. Remember the final judgement came in April 20th 2012, and he was out of the country by May 2013 after the UK and Jordan agreed the changes needed. So it is a tad hard to blame May for "selective" memory and such things.. Remember she got the job in 2010, after the appeal to the EHRC was done..

Read the timeline in the link I supplied to Andy's query. As to whether she actually succeeded in deporting him or whether she complied with his pledge, offering the conditions that would make him go quietly, we can argue that all day long and it's as pointless as any argument on semantics. Nevertheless she was back to where everything was before

In March 2013, Abu Qatada was rearrested after allegedly breaching his bail conditions. On 27 March, The Court of Appeal rejected the Home Secretary's appeal from the November 2012 SIAC ruling[88] and, in April 2013, denied her leave to appeal,

He didn't leave, incidentally, until July (not March) but that's beside the point here. April did however not, contrary to what you remember, provide the final judgment (see above).

Finally kindly quit harping on about how I'm blaming her for all of it, I've already stated that the whole affair was not initiated in her time.

 

[PeteEU]

Finally kindly quit harping on about how I'm blaming her for all of it, I've already stated that the whole affair was not initiated in her time.

Have to yap about something before the footie... omfgs please let me do so!!!

 

[Chagos]

Have to yap about something before the footie... omfgs please let me do so!!!

Okay, yap at yer pleasure :lol:

 

[faithful_servant]

It just occurred to me that within a matter of weeks it may be that 5 of the leaders of the 7 largest UK political parties will be led by women.

If Theresa May and Angela Eagle are elected to lead their parties, Conservative, Labour, SNP, DUP, and PC, accounting for 629/650 MPs will be women-led. Is that significant?

A lot of feminists often argue that politics would be less of a gentlemen's club and have a more consensus-based, common sense approach to problem solving if run by women. If women become to dominate the leadership of the nation, will things change for the better?

Sounds like words from a bigoted sexist to me....